File IFR Direct?

JHW said:
you took a lot of writing to pump yourself up before finally admitting nobody cares and never has :rolleyes:
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Meh... I care. I just don't know how much. And I wasn't "pumping myself up," merely trying to make sure that there's as much relevant info as possible here. I don't give a crap if you file coast to coast with no fixes... But some unsuspecting instrument student whose DE *does* care might want to know. :p

FWIW, I have filed the extra fixes before, especially when I'm going to be flying directly over a VOR anyway - What does it hurt? But since most of my flights don't involve transiting an entire ARTCC without landing (IE I take off in Chicago Center airspace, and I probably land in one of the bordering Centers), it's a moot point for me.

What about in the flight levels? It seems that the airlines file and fly routes with intermediate fixes, and with the price of fuel and their tiny profit margins, I would think that they wouldn't do that unless they had to. For those of you flying in the flight levels, what happens if you file airport to airport?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What about in the flight levels? It seems that the airlines file and fly routes with intermediate fixes, and with the price of fuel and their tiny profit margins, I would think that they wouldn't do that unless they had to. For those of you flying in the flight levels, what happens if you file airport to airport?
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how far into the flight levels ? we'd routinely file from podunk central IL to Jacksonville FL in the low 20's. Never failed to have the flight plan accepted and I can think of only one time we were cleared anything other than direct.

This idea of intermediate fixes is a little like the idea of composite flight plans. It's something that only exists in abstract discussion, not in real life.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What about in the flight levels? ... For those of you flying in the flight levels, what happens if you file airport to airport?
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Here's how it should happen:
"Operators must ensure that the route of flight contains no less than one waypoint, in the FRD format, or NAVAID, per each ARTCC that a direct route segment traverses and these waypoints or NAVAIDs must be located within 200 NM of the preceding ARTCC's boundary. Additional route description fixes for each turning point in the route must be defined."
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I always took the time to file the waypoints as requested. It wasn't difficult. To do less would be unprofessional and I was being paid handsomely to be as professional as possible. :)

dtuuri
 
flyingcheesehead said:
For those of you flying in the flight levels, what happens if you file airport to airport?
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I file direct airport to airport in the flight levels sometimes. That may not be what we get, but sometime it is. I did more filing direct back before fltplan.com started giving information about previously assigned routes, but sometimes when the airports are out in the boonies there are no previous routes.



File what you want. If the computer doesn't like it, it will spit out something else. Then you can negotiate if it means that much to you.
 
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I file direct always. I'm /G. I tried for awhile not filing direct but I still never got what I filed for so I gave up. When I'm going out of Rapid City I tend to get direct. But out of the Phoenix area I'll never get it. It's just easier to file direct because I'm not waiting my time when they'll change my clearance anyway.
 
Unless I'm prepared to cancel and go on my own, I usually don't file through SUAs that might go hot, even if they're not expected to. As once happened to me over the Adirondacks, they might go hot unexpectedly, and if they do when you're approaching them, the reroute could be lengthy.
 
Z06_Mir said:
But out of the Phoenix area I'll never get it. It's just easier to file direct because I'm not waiting my time when they'll change my clearance anyway.
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Denver is similar - yer gonna get vectors to a SID so you may as well plan that. About the only time they'll really work with you is at five in the morning and even then it's iffy.
 
azure said:
Unless I'm prepared to cancel and go on my own, I usually don't file through SUAs that might go hot, even if they're not expected to. As once happened to me over the Adirondacks, they might go hot unexpectedly, and if they do when you're approaching them, the reroute could be lengthy.
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I blast through MOAs all the time IFR. If they go hot I usually get handed off to controlling agencies and press on through perhaps with a dog leg or something, then handed back on the other side no big deal.

Clark1961 said:
Denver is similar - yer gonna get vectors to a SID so you may as well plan that. About the only time they'll really work with you is at five in the morning and even then it's iffy.
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Yeah in Denver you'll be assigned a SID or a SID-like overlay every time (unless you opt out) but in my experience I seldom have to fly the whole thing. Usually once I get to a center controller they clear me either direct or to some waypoint near the end of the procedure.
 
petrolero said:
I blast through MOAs all the time IFR. If they go hot I usually get handed off to controlling agencies and press on through perhaps with a dog leg or something, then handed back on the other side no big deal.
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Sure, I've no doubt that will happen in some places. But when it happened to me, the reroute would have added 45 minutes to my ETE and put me very close to my personal minimum of never landing with less than an hour of fuel, unless I made an unplanned fuel stop. No thanks. If I can cancel and continue VFR then that will be my plan B, but if I really need to be IFR, I'll file around the MOA. From far enough away the added distance going around is usually insignificant unless the MOA is huge.
 
Clark1961 said:
Denver is similar - yer gonna get vectors to a SID so you may as well plan that. About the only time they'll really work with you is at five in the morning and even then it's iffy.
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It's generally good practice to find out what you are likely to get and plan for that.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It's generally good practice to find out what you are likely to get and plan for that.
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Yesterday I was 0 for 2 using the "previously assigned ATC routes" on fltplan.com. It usually works better but sometimes not.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Nothing is perfect. Never know what may be taking place that day to make the "usual" less practical.
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True. But it does lend a bit of truth to, "file what you want, fly what you get". Of course you can try to negotiate, but that may or may not work out, depending on the traffic flow. I usually just accept what I get because it rarely makes much difference.
 
in descending order of priority:
1) TEC or preferred routes if they're present (such as in the NE)
2) ATC cleared routes from flightaware, foreflight, etc.
3) direct if within a single ARTCC
4) one waypoint per ARTCC to give ATC a fighting chance to know where I'm going (per the AIM discussion above)

Am starting to think #4 really isn't needed because I coordinated flight following from Kentucky to my home airport in NJ on a recent flight and Indy Center said, "radar contact....650.3 miles southwest of Lincoln Park airport." (or a distance along those lines)

So, apparently, at least on his setup, he knew where I was going an didn't seem to need the interim fixes.
 
Everskyward said:
True. But it does lend a bit of truth to, "file what you want, fly what you get". Of course you can try to negotiate, but that may or may not work out, depending on the traffic flow. I usually just accept what I get because it rarely makes much difference.
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Me too. Unless there's something bad about it from an operational our safety perspective.

I pretty much operate on the assumption that variations in the departure or arrival are traffic related and I can always ask for a shortcut once en route.
 
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