Felony as a youngster

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delphipgmr

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delphipgmr
My Daughters boyfriend (now 18), is looking to get into aviation as a career.

I haven't found out all the details yet, but he apparently had a felony conviction at 15.

Playing with a BB gun, hit a car, got caught. had to pay damages, probation, fine etc.. all taken care of.

I haven't seen the conviction, so i don't know all the details. Parents are idiots, no lawyer, went with what the prosecutor wanted etc..

Doesn't this pretty much exclude him from ever going 121? Or is it different because it was a stupid kid thing before 18 is there different rules?

Im sure ultimately, a major airline would look at all this stuff anyway.

how should i advise him?
 
Plenty of felons out there flying for a living. If he wasn't running drugs, he'll be okay, if he was running drugs, he'll be okay after 25.

The real problem is he's not too bright, while this is a 'good thing' when it comes to an aviation career, it's not that great for a daughter's boyfriend.
 
Unless he was tried as an adult, I suspect that he did not receive a felony conviction for something he did with a BB gun at age 15, so I'm hesitant to even guess about the ramifications. What I'd suggest is obtaining the assistance of an aviation attorney who can, as the young man's legal representative, obtain all the documentation on the event and then advise him on how that impacts his career, including what he must/need not divulge on a job application. Anything else is just speculation based on third-hand hearsay, and that's not usually very reliable.
 
Ron Levy said:
Unless he was tried as an adult, I suspect that he did not receive a felony conviction for something he did with a BB gun at age 15, so I'm hesitant to even guess about the ramifications. What I'd suggest is obtaining the assistance of an aviation attorney who can, as the young man's legal representative, obtain all the documentation on the event and then advise him on how that impacts his career, including what he must/need not divulge on a job application. Anything else is just speculation based on third-hand hearsay, and that's not usually very reliable.
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You don't need an aviation attorney to get the paperwork from the courts. Why spend a few hundred dollars for him to do it when he can get it himself for a few bucks at most? If it is a felony, then hiring the attorney might be a good idea. If not, the record could be already gone if he was a juvenile. But still might be a good idea to get a consult. If there is a record, you can get paperwork from the courts to get the record expunged, which you can hire any attorney to do.
 
delphipgmr said:
My Daughters boyfriend (now 18), is looking to get into aviation as a career.

I haven't found out all the details yet, but he apparently had a felony conviction at 15.

Playing with a BB gun, hit a car, got caught. had to pay damages, probation, fine etc.. all taken care of.

I haven't seen the conviction, so i don't know all the details. Parents are idiots, no lawyer, went with what the prosecutor wanted etc..

Doesn't this pretty much exclude him from ever going 121? Or is it different because it was a stupid kid thing before 18 is there different rules?

Im sure ultimately, a major airline would look at all this stuff anyway.

how should i advise him?
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What state would prosecute a minor as a felon for that offense? I wouldn't wan to live there.
 
i would think as a minor his records where sealed,after the agreement was made with the courts.
 
JB1842 said:
You don't need an aviation attorney to get the paperwork from the courts. Why spend a few hundred dollars for him to do it when he can get it himself for a few bucks at most? If it is a felony, then hiring the attorney might be a good idea. If not, the record could be already gone if he was a juvenile. But still might be a good idea to get a consult. If there is a record, you can get paperwork from the courts to get the record expunged, which you can hire any attorney to do.
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In most cases, you need an attorney help you figure out what you need, how to get it, and what it actually means. You want to shortcut that process, be my guest, but you may find that a penny-wise/pound-foolish choice.
 
frfly172 said:
i would think as a minor his records where sealed,after the agreement was made with the courts.
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As I said, we don't know whether he was tried as an adult or a minor -- the fact that it has been referred to as a "felony conviction" indicates it might not be the latter. In addition, the fact that records are sealed doesn't necessarily mean you can avoid mentioning that on an FAA application form. Hence, competent legal advice -- this is one he can't afford to get wrong.
 
Ron Levy said:
In most cases, you need an attorney help you figure out what you need, how to get it, and what it actually means. You want to shortcut that process, be my guest, but you may find that a penny-wise/pound-foolish choice.
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Guy who took his checkride after me knocked over a convenience store with a shotgun when he was 18, had a Class II. No attorney needed, not sure how his career would have panned out. Here's the probable cause http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20100708X10207&ntsbno=WPR10FA330&akey=1
 
it is in FL.

I am going to find out more about how he was sentenced and see if it really was a felony.

it was him and his 13 year old cousin at the time, i honestly believe it was just a kid being stupid thing.

he graduated high school as the salutatorian, and has a 4.0 in college. He really is a good, polite kid. you would never suspect him of doing something like this.

I'll post back when i get some more solid info.
 
I would lay out all the parts of my 9 mm on a chamois and have a talk with the young man.....

Then I would point out all the other fish in the sea, to my daughter.....
 
bbchien said:
I would lay out all the parts of my 9 mm on a chamois and have a talk with the young man.....

Then I would point out all the other fish in the sea, to my daughter.....
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Dying laughing. I just sent my 24 y.o. Daughter a picture of a shirt with the caption "I have a beautiful daughter, a gun, shovel, and an alibi". She did not find it amusing. :D
 
bbchien said:
I would lay out all the parts of my 9 mm on a chamois and have a talk with the young man.....

Then I would point out all the other fish in the sea, to my daughter.....
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I can speak from experience when I say it likely won't work. In my case it was a 12 gauge.
 
I would think advising your daughter on who not to fall for could backfire, but what do I know, I don't have any. I'm 50 years old with no daughters and not a single gray hair. Coincidence? I think not.

I would spend the time mentoring the kid. Whether he's son in law material or not, it's a great opportunity to share the virtues of staying on the straight and narrow. And while you're at it, make sure he's aware of what a crap shoot an aviation career can be nowadays.
 
DaleB said:
I can speak from experience when I say it likely won't work. In my case it was a 12 gauge.
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I can speak from experience when I say it works just fine. Abandoned one girlfriend after seeing dad's gun collection. The pursuit of nookie just isn't worth risking life and limb, not when half the world is female.
 
I hope you are all just joking, i mean who hasn't done things as a kid that you aren't exactly proud of.

Plus we live in a different world, we grew-up when you got in to a fight in 7th grade, the principle called your parents and yelled at you, maybe a 3 day suspension.

now they call the police, have the 12 year old arrested on assault charges, and send them through the court system, and expel them from school.
 
I remember a few years ago, here in our town they arrested a 7th grader on battery charges for throwing a pencil in class and hitting a fellow student.

this seriously happened. seriously.


PORT ST. LUCIE — Police arrested a 13-year-old boy on a battery charge after he threw a broken pencil in class that hit another boy in the back of the head, according to a report released Thursday.

The 12-year-old victim, a seventh grade student, on Tuesday came in Oak Hammock Middle School's school resource officer office and said the suspect threw a piece of a broken pencil that hit him in the head.

Two witnesses in class said the suspect, also a seventh grade student, threw the pencil piece.

The suspect said he was throwing pencils, crayons and marker caps at one of the witnesses and another student because “they were calling him names.”

When he threw the pencil at one of the witnesses, the witness ducked and the pencil hit the victim.
 
Norman said:
What state would prosecute a minor as a felon for that offense? I wouldn't wan to live there.
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Back in about 1996 (yes, pre-9/11) two kids in my daughter's school (a very rural school in SW MO) manufactured some M-80's.* Then they went out and blew up a few mailboxes. One was 15, the other 17.

They brought the 17 YO up on federal bomb making charges and he actually did time.

It was really sad then and I still think it's sad...stupidly sad.

Were those kids really dumb to do what they did? Sure. But they were doing typical kid stuff. They would have learned a lot more had they been required to buy and re-install the mailboxes and then mow those folks' yards all summer.

We've become one f'ed up country when it comes to law enforcement and incarceration.

*IIRC one of the boys dad was a shotgun re-loader and they built the M-80s out of short lengths of 1/2" pvc pipe that they filled with gunpowder, capped and fused. Or something like that...
 
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DaleB said:
I can speak from experience when I say it likely won't work. In my case it was a 12 gauge.
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The girl I lost my V card to in high school, her dad did the same thing. First time I met him he walked in the bedroom and came out with a couple guns. Told me to come out back with him. Didn't work. I liked guns and hunting (and women) too much.
 
delphipgmr said:
it is in FL.

I am going to find out more about how he was sentenced and see if it really was a felony.

it was him and his 13 year old cousin at the time, i honestly believe it was just a kid being stupid thing.

he graduated high school as the salutatorian, and has a 4.0 in college. He really is a good, polite kid. you would never suspect him of doing something like this.

I'll post back when i get some more solid info.
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Yeah, those are the ones they find with 27 bodies in their crawl space....:yikes::lol:
 
timwinters said:
Back in about 1996 (yes, pre-9/11) two kids in my daughter's school (a very rural school in SW MO) manufactured some M-80's.* Then they went out and blew up a few mailboxes. One was 15, the other 17.

They brought the 17 YO up on federal bomb making charges and he actually did time.

It was really sad then and I still think it's sad...stupidly sad.

Were those kids really dumb to do what they did? Sure. But they were doing typical kid stuff. They would have learned a lot more had they been required to buy and re-install the mailboxes and then mow those folks' yards all summer.

We've become one f'ed up country when it comes to law enforcement and incarceration.

*IIRC one of the boys dad was a shotgun re-loader and they built the M-80s out of short lengths of 1/2" pvc pipe that they filled with gunpowder, capped and fused. Or something like that...
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Law Enforcement and incarceration are a huge industry in America.
 
asgcpa said:
Dying laughing. I just sent my 24 y.o. Daughter a picture of a shirt with the caption "I have a beautiful daughter, a gun, shovel, and an alibi". She did not find it amusing. :D
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When you have this talk mention to the boy, "I'm not scared to go back to prison"
 
I have to believe there is more to the story than just shooting a BB in to a car and then paying $75 for a paint touch up at Earl Scheib. Even in California I can't imagine the cops even wasting their time with that one past a ***** session, much less the courts.

Unless of course the BB gun resembled an assault rifle....
 
48dodge said:
When you have this talk mention to the boy, "I'm not scared to go back to prison"
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I was in a Walmart (go figure) a few years ago when some knucklehead decided that physically pushing my wife's cart out his way in a very rough and rude manner was an appropriate way to behave in public. Let's just say I expressed to him and his significant other in a fairly calm way that they were both extremely rude and obnoxious.

The guy got in my face all 5'8" of him and said exactly that, "I have been in prison before and I am not afraid to go back. I just stood there looking down on him and laughed in his face. I told him, "let me know how that goes for you buddy." At that point his significant other basically said to him you better back down because he, meaning me, is not going to. She was smarter than I thought she was.

My wife just stood there like this :yikes:.

As for my daughter and her fairly new boyfriend I did hear her say the other day when he was over the house for the first time, "Dad are you really sharpening broadheads in there?" Hey, in my defense it is hunting season. :wink2:
 
Im waiting to get the paperwork from him.

but i couldn't find anything on the court case lookup, so i assume he was not tried as an adult.

Does it make a difference? I cant seem to find much information on child felonies
 
delphipgmr said:
Im waiting to get the paperwork from him.

but i couldn't find anything on the court case lookup, so i assume he was not tried as an adult.
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Don't assume that at all.


I cant seem to find much information on child felonies
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It really seems you need a lawyer to help you (or rather, this young man) through this process. Trying to save a couple of hundred bucks now is too likely to cost thousands later trying to fix the problem if he acts on an incorrect assumption. Considering the cost of getting to the point of being a pilot in a 121 operation (per your original post), that's chump change. Don't skimp on this -- get it right, and that means professional assistance/advice.
 
That will likely be the advice, but i wanted to take a look at it first. Im not sure what i am going to find.

The problem was he was only 15 and didnt really understand what was happening to him in a legal sense, so i don't know what information is true, and what is "perceived" by a barely 15 year old put into a very overwhelming situation.

For all i know, it may not even be a felony conviction, like i thought it was odd that he said he had no probation (which is almost always done with a conviction), or maybe he just didn't understand what probation was and he had it.

The parents speak little to no english, so they are no use in getting information. From what he has told me, he had virtually no representation, as none of them knew how to navigate the system.

Keep in mind, a 121 career is a long shot for anyone, and as i told him, he can still be involved in aviation, even if its part time as a CFI, or maybe with ATC, and have a real job to make a living

The college here offers an associates in business management with a focus on aviation (meaning he can get rated through an aviation school that is in partnership with the college), so thats what he is thinking about doing.

but it all comes down to the medical.

Im just trying to help and point him in the right direction, he has parents that are not well educated and cant really help him out.
 
I'd listen to Ron.

Also, I do know of a few felons that are in aviation. Don't know of any airline pilots, but cargo and corporate pilots for sure.
 
I understand the "moral character" part for an ATP, and i kind of hinted that 121 might be a hard route to follow anyway. But there are other options that can be just as fulfilling.

Im also not sure how the "Stupid kid thing" factors in. I cant believe he is the first kid to screw up and get into aviation. but i cant seem to find any similar situations google searching.
 
delphipgmr said:
...

now they call the police, have the 12 year old arrested on assault charges, and send them through the court system, and expel them from school.
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Ain't that the truth! I remember in High School I got into a lunch room food fight with another kid. Two coaches grabbed us, dragged us into the hall way, gave us 3 'licks' with a paddle, and made us shake hands. Event over.

I recall bragging to my friends that the licks didn't bother me. But I never got into another food fight in the lunch room.

Another time I got into a 'fight' (if you want to call two 9th graders shoving each other a fight). The assistant principle dragged us into his office and told us to meet him in the gym after school.

He had us put on the gloves, spar with each other for maybe three minutes, made us shake hands, and then we went home.

Neither time were we put on drugs, the cops were not called, I'm not even sure if they notified our folks.


Fast forward to 2013. I have a young coworker , a smart as whip computer programmer. We hired as an intern and then kept on full time after he graduated with a 3.8 gpa in computer science.

My coworker has applied to go to Air Force OTS. Everything was going smoothly until he fessed up that he had a misdemeanor conviction for 'assault' when he was ten fracking years old! It was just two kids shoving each other in school.

Now the Air Force throws on the brakes, he misses the December selection board and now has to wait until March. He has to spend some money to get a lawyer to file some kind of paperwork somewhere.

Thank goodness the school didn't put him on drugs.

This young guy is exactly the kind of officer we need in our military.

When I'm king you won't be able to become an officer in the military unless you've been in at least one physical fight before you turn 18. Internet flame wars won't count.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I have to believe there is more to the story than just shooting a BB in to a car and then paying $75 for a paint touch up at Earl Scheib. Even in California I can't imagine the cops even wasting their time with that one past a ***** session, much less the courts.

Unless of course the BB gun resembled an assault rifle....
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I remember about 10 years ago a few kids were charged with state level felonies for making "bottle bombs" and setting them off in the street, not even using them for vandalism. (I distinctly remember this because it was in my small town hometown where not a whole lot makes the news.)

Not sure what the disposition was, but I'm sure with an apathetic attorney telling them to plead guilty for community service they could very well be convicted felons.
 
ok i got the info

his sentence was probation withheld, 40 hrs of community service, apology letters to the victims, pay back $3000 in damages, 8 pm curfew. all of which have been completed.

it was in juvenile court.

he had 2 counts of a 2nd degree felony.

Florida Statutes 790.19 - Shooting into or throwing deadly missiles into dwellings, public or private buildings, occupied or not occupied; vessels, aircraft, buses, railroad cars, streetcars, or other vehicles

Apparently they were "gun fishing" with a BB gun, and decided to take a couple shots at some moving cars on an adjacent highway.

apparently, he is eligible for getting expunged/sealed.

any thoughts on:

1) eligibility for a medical.
2) future possibilities on a career

keep in mind, I would recommend a lawyer if it is possible.
 
Does this get reported when applying for a medical and will it get referred?


also, i found out that in florida, at the age of 24 (19 + 5 years), juvenile records are automatically expunged.
 
delphipgmr said:
Does this get reported when applying for a medical and will it get referred?


also, i found out that in florida, at the age of 24 (19 + 5 years), juvenile records are automatically expunged.
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That's a question for Bruce, but my suspicion is that reporting this incident as a juvenile won't raise any deferral issues.
 
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