Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionaire!

[mikea]

The United States has issued a written apology to a jet-setting billionaire businessman with close ties to former President Bill Clinton whose name was added to the no-fly list in the wake of the attempted Christmas day bombing of an American passenger plane.

Gilbert Chagoury, 64, a Nigerian citizen of Lebanese descent, was pulled off a private jet Jan. 15 at Teterboro airport in New Jersey and detained for more than four hours after federal agents discovered his name was on the then-recently updated no-fly list.

The private jet crew of two and four other passengers were detained for four-and-a-half hours while agents questioned Chagoury. He and the others were ultimately allowed to continue their trip to Paris.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-apologizes-billionaire-added-terror-fly-list/story?id=10698917

That'll teach him not to fly coach like the airlines intended.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

And in other news... Holy crap! It's Mike!

 

[tonycondon]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

yay welcome back mike!

 

[woodstock]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

Hi Mike!

 

[flyersfan31]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

That'll teach him not to fly coach like the airlines intended.

Welcome back, Mike. I hope you have the time to stay and play a bit.

 

[Palmpilot]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

That'll teach him not to fly coach like the airlines intended.

I think we just found out why we have to get advance permission to leave the country by air.

I wonder how long it will be before this rule applies to travel by car, boat or on foot.

You know, I just can't help but think that secret lists of names of people who can be denied the right to travel is not what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

 

[wsuffa]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

yay welcome back mike!

welcome back!

 

[CrashAxe]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

The four hour detainment because he was placed on a secret list is bad enough.

The expensive four MONTH fight he had to get off that list is truly unbelievable. If it takes a politically-connected billionaire four months to get off the list, it doesn't look good for the common man's chances.

 

[mikea]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

The four hour detainment because he was placed on a secret list is bad enough.

The expensive four MONTH fight he had to get off that list is truly unbelievable. If it takes a politically-connected billionaire four months to get off the list, it doesn't look good for the common man's chances.

Remember they had Ted kennedy on the list and held the senator up (once!) He had little problem getting the name flagged to leave him alone.

With over a million names on the list the odds of a hit are better than winning the $100 prize in the lottery.

[EDIT: My name is pretty common. I've always had 2-3 more of me in my neighborhood. Not that I'll ever fly commercial again, but if I do and I get hassled, I'm changing my name to Mxyzptlk.]

 

[wsuffa]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

"Please understand that in order to detect those international travelers involved in illicit activities, we must, at times, unfortunately inconvenience law-abiding travelers," the DHS official wrote to Chagoury in April.

The America we grew up in is dead. The principal of "innocent until proven guilty" is dead. The principal of "face your accusers" is dead.

Inconvenience? Look at the other folks described in the article - Americans who cannot get home - even the FBI suggests they fly to Mexico or Canada and cross the border. If Americans can't return home because of a secret watch list, then they are effectively denied the privileges of their citizenship....

And look at all the children swept up because their names are similar to those on the "list".

And the government is using this to justify billions of dollars spent on Secure Fright, where it will effectively track you and your travels.....

 

[kevin47881]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

Welcome back, Mike! Good to see you posting again. Hope all is going well.

 

[Henning]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

The America we grew up in is dead. The principal of "innocent until proven guilty" is dead. The principal of "face your accusers" is dead.

Inconvenience? Look at the other folks described in the article - Americans who cannot get home - even the FBI suggests they fly to Mexico or Canada and cross the border. If Americans can't return home because of a secret watch list, then they are effectively denied the privileges of their citizenship....

And look at all the children swept up because their names are similar to those on the "list".

And the government is using this to justify billions of dollars spent on Secure Fright, where it will effectively track you and your travels.....

What's kind of funny is during the Cold War, these were the actions of "Our Enemy" and exemplified how we were better than them and needed to spend untold trillions of dollars fighting them. We declare "Break down this wall" and then put up one of our own....

 

[Ghery]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

What's kind of funny is during the Cold War, these were the actions of "Our Enemy" and exemplified how we were better than them and needed to spend untold trillions of dollars fighting them. We declare "Break down this wall" and then put up one of our own....

Truely sad. And all too true.

 

[LearDriver]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

You know, I just can't help but think that secret lists of names of people who can be denied the right to travel is not what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

I've got news for you. This country is no longer what the founding fathers meant for it to be.

 

[mikea]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

Welcome back, Mike! Good to see you posting again. Hope all is going well.

Things are going. Incredibly Not well. And I can't talk about about it for a while.

I need to keep busy and talk to the outside world to retain my sanity.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

Hang in there, Mike. Glad you're back!

 

[Henning]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

Things are going. Incredibly Not well. And I can't talk about about it for a while.

I need to keep busy and talk to the outside world to retain my sanity.

Go to the junkyard, buy a car for a few bucks, mix up a big batch of ANFO, toss a couple cans of gas in there and blow it up. Nothing as good for the soul as blowing something the f-k up.

 

[SkyHog]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

Secret List.

Ringing Mr. McCarthy.

 

[Palmpilot]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

I've got news for you. This country is no longer what the founding fathers meant for it to be.

That's right, and we need to make sure that as many people as possible know that.

 

[steingar]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

While I dislike the current situation intensely, I would remind everyone that you can still leave the country without permission. You can walk across, or take your motorcycle or car or bicycle. I don't know about your boat, someone else might chime in on that. While the government's actions are considerably less than laudable (and probably my biggest disappointment with the O) lets not blow this out of proportion. Stalinist Russia this is not.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

I don't know about your boat, someone else might chime in on that.

So far there is no "no sail" list. I was racing in Canadian water Saturday.

 

[wsuffa]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

While I dislike the current situation intensely, I would remind everyone that you can still leave the country without permission.

That's not quite correct. Obviously to travel by air you need government permission.

You can walk across, or take your motorcycle or car or bicycle.

At some border crossings USCPB has conducted exit checks of folks. Here's one example:

Peter, a Canadian citizen, was on his way back to Canada after helping a friend move house to Nebraska over the weekend. He was stopped at the border crossing at Port Huron, Michigan by U.S. border police for a search of his rental vehicle.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/11/dr-peter-watts-canad.html

With a little searching, you can find plenty more stories. US is also stopping outbound vehickles on the Mexican border searching for guns & other contraband. The US also has the right, under law, to conduct "border stops" within about 100 miles of a port of entry.... and they do operate fixed and roving checkpoints in various locations in Texas, Arizona, and California.

You may not consider all that to be "government permission to leave the country", but some do.

I don't know about your boat, someone else might chime in on that. While the government's actions are considerably less than laudable (and probably my biggest disappointment with the O) lets not blow this out of proportion. Stalinist Russia this is not.

No, it's not currently Salinist Russia. But is is disappointing, and some would say it's not in keeping with the freedoms that the US urges in other countries.

 

[Dr. O]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

When the electorate holds politicians responsible for any and every terrorist act with the threat of forcing them out of office, the political reaction will be to light a fire under law enforcement... The electorate have no one but themselves to blame when they are stopped and frisked as a result... You can have absolute freedom or absolute safety, but not both...

denny-o

 

[steingar]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

At some border crossings USCPB has conducted exit checks of folks. Here's one example...You may not consider all that to be "government permission to leave the country", but some do.

No, it's not currently Salinist Russia. But is is disappointing, and some would say it's not in keeping with the freedoms that the US urges in other countries.

The examples you cite, while disappointing, are not novel. Moreover, they do not in any way constitute a requirement to seek prior permission to exit the country. Agreed, if you want to do so in your aircraft you do have to seek prior permission, a policy that is as wrong as it is ineffective. But it is not the draconian abrogation of freedom that everyone is discussing in this thread.

 

[sba55]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

No, it's not currently Salinist Russia. But is is disappointing, and some would say it's not in keeping with the freedoms that the US urges in other countries.

I think anyone who's informed about what's going on would say that. Wantless wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, making up stuff to justify a war - any single one of these would land a political leader in prison in no time in most western countries. There's an utter lack of accountability in the U.S.

This difference is visible even in small things. Flying to Europe this morning, for example, I didn't have to fill out a customs form. I didn't have to wait in line. I didn't have to have my passport scanned or even looked at for more than 5 seconds. From the gate to the taxis took me maybe 2 minutes. Try that in a U.S. airport as a citizen. I really wish more countries would show some reciprocity and fingerprint, photograph, and require advanced "travel permissions ala US ESTA" for all people with a U.S. passport. Maybe then we'd wake up.

-Felix

 

[Everskyward]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

When the electorate holds politicians responsible for any and every terrorist act with the threat of forcing them out of office, the political reaction will be to light a fire under law enforcement... The electorate have no one but themselves to blame when they are stopped and frisked as a result...

There's a lot of truth to that.

You can have absolute freedom or absolute safety, but not both...

Actually I don't think you can have either.

 

[Palmpilot]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

When the electorate holds politicians responsible for any and every terrorist act with the threat of forcing them out of office, the political reaction will be to light a fire under law enforcement... The electorate have no one but themselves to blame when they are stopped and frisked as a result... You can have absolute freedom or absolute safety, but not both...

denny-o

Actually, you can't have absolute safety, because the power you must give to those who are charged with maintaining it makes them the new threat to safety.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Re: Feds detain "no fly" Nigerian from PRIVATE JET for 4 hours! Sorry, Mr. Billionair

At some border crossings USCPB has conducted exit checks of folks. Here's one example:

With a little searching, you can find plenty more stories. US is also stopping outbound vehickles on the Mexican border searching for guns & other contraband. The US also has the right, under law, to conduct "border stops" within about 100 miles of a port of entry.... and they do operate fixed and roving checkpoints in various locations in Texas, Arizona, and California.

And they find stuff, too. Today:

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=461978