FBO Manager Here - Seeking Advice from Pilots

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redknight

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redknight
Hello All, I am a new FBO Manager and also new to this site. I was just curious what sort of expectations pilots have when arriving to small FBOs like mine in Jamestown, North Dakota. What do pilots look for that separates a "good" FBO from a "great" FBO. Unfortunately, we are lacking some services and we are also not exactly a busy airport so 24/7 coverage is not really possible. We, for example, last year got rid of a courtesy car due to excessive abuse, followed by a little bit of damage, and generally losing money from it. To avoid writing too much here, just looking for advice to make the place a nice place to fly to with our limited services available. For a small FBO in a small town, what do people look for and expect? Cleanliness above all? Friendly and helpful employees? Pilot services like lounging, food, t.v., etc.? I know the basics and naturally friendly and helpful employees are important for me to consider, just would love to hear from pilots who have surely seen their fair share of FBOs around the nation. Thanks for any information provide and you all keep up the safe flying!
 
Cheap fuel, Over the top customer service, wifi
 
Cheap, available (self-serve) fuel is my major concern when just stopping for gas. It's great when there is a car available so I can get something to eat and/or re-stock the cooler. In the summer it's nice to get some ice for the cooler as well. Getting the windscreen cleaned with full-service fuel is wonderful as long as care is used in the cleaning.

It's wonderful when the FBO people are helpful and well trained. I don't want to worry about damage to the aircraft. If I ask that it be tied down or where to park so I can tie it down then help out with that without whining that the sky blue. Have the phone numbers of a few A&P's handy if you don't have one on staff or your's is on vacation. Work some deals with local motels and transport to them.

Take some time to go on a day trip or two and see for yourself what is needed. It's great that you're asking. It seems to me that the best FBOs are those run by folks that fly.
 
Typical being made to feel like the most important customer ever. Even if I am in a piston single!

Clean bathrooms, being open, reasonable priced fuel, not having to dig the tie down spots out to use them, a counter person that be helpful with hotels, knowing how to get transport, etc.

That you are asking your target market is showing that you are on the right track
 
teethdoc said:
Cheap fuel, Over the top customer service, wifi
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:yeahthat: As for customer service, just be polite, and useful. No need for red carpets, big boob girls(although that would be a plus), or fancy stuff. GA pilots that visit small fields are mostly individualistic enough to want to go their own way. Encourage that, and provide what you can to move us along on our journey.

I think getting rid of the courtesy car completely was a mistake, but I'm here, and you're there. Get a car from the impound lot, or from a police auction, or from a donation. You need transportation on the ground.

One more thing, work with your local businesses to see which one's will pickup or drop off at the airport. I've called a few small hotels that would come get me if they had the staff for a very small fee(gas cost). Post those numbers where incoming pilots can see them. In Branson MO, I had to stand around and call 8 different hotels before one of them would come over and give me a ride. The cab fare would have been a deal breaker, and I was ready to hop back in my plane and go elsewhere for the night.

Welcome to POA.
 
I believe the best will vary from one to another based on their mission. By this I mean some FBO's service popular destinations. Those FBO's mission will differ from a FBO who has no such location draw.

A small FBO in podunk, USA (please forgive the term as no disrespect is intended) will be good in my view if they offer service which I as a transient pilot might want.

I am only likely to stop there if the fuel price is good. So, look at airnav for cheap fuel on their great deals report. Take that information and if you can do it, offer the cheapest fuel in the area or state. Less expensive fuel means more transients, more fuel sold and possibly more revenue in the end.

If I stop, I would like a restroom and preferrably a clean restroom.

If I stop, I would like a computer with internet to check weather before departing.

If I stop, I may have a mechanical issue and it would be nice to have an easy to locate phone number for local A&P willing to work on short notice.

It would be nice to have a heated / cooled lounge area with soda machine or coffee available. The best podunk FBO's have all of the above. Notice I made no mention of a staffed FBO.

I am not likely to need a courtesy car in podunk, USA.
 
Thank you all so much for the quick and helpful advice! Some things mentioned in comments we surely have but am aiming to improve and other ideas are things I wouldn't have thought of so this is incredibly helpful! I hope to be also learning to fly "soon-ish" so I will hope to fly into other similar sized FBOs to see how things are and then visit the big boys later to see what I aspire my FBO to be. Jamestown is slowly developing so hopefully soon we can offer the courtesy car again (in the interim we offer rides from our staff and discounted taxi service) and then work on improving other services as well. Again, really thanks for all the help, I didn't expect this many comments so quickly and I will plan to tomorrow start implementing some of these ideas like posting numbers for hotels that offer shuttle, etc.
 
Another thing that is needed in vast quantity is patients. We're mostly a good group (pilots) but there are always a few that make you appreciate the rest of us. Don't let the bad ones get you down.
 
Courtesy car is a biggie. Did the last 1 come from the county or city? That way they are good & worn out when you get them :) Mostly , act like you're glad we are there. Good Luck
 
Depends a bit on who you want to attract.

Many of the smaller bizjets and turboprops have to make a fuel stop right around that part of the country when going coast to coast. Most will go into Fargo, but fuel at the Jet center tends to be $1.50 more than at surrounding airports. So if you want to get some of that business, make sure that you :
- have a competitive fuel price, accept fuel cards like Colt, UVair etc. consider matching the card price with your own stock.
- have an adequate fuel truck and trained staff to refuel bizjets. Be prepared to show your staffs training credentials.
- manage your presence on fuel price websites and allways have current guaranteed prices
- provide exceptional service to those folks, have a golf-cart with a canopy available, have your lineman greet them at the plane in a friendly and professional manner
- if you get a pre-notification by someone coming through, make sure every staff member knows who is coming and what they have requested.
- keep a supply of ice-bags on hand. Work out a deal with a sandwich place in town to deliver a tray on short notice.
- consider getting a courtesy car, establish policies that favor it remaining in one piece (copy of drivers license, have borrowers sign an agreement)
- advertise your services on airnav and foreflight. I noticed your company currently only has a 'courtesy ad' on airnav, that way anyone who pulls up JMS has no way of knowing whether you provide rental cars, courtesy car etc. Manage the comments section, right now all the comments on airnav are complimentary, but if you get a negative comment, represent your businesses side in a professional manner. Try to run the place in a way that you dont get negative comments in the first place, get cell numbers for the pilots on sign in, have your staff report any customers who are unhappy about anything so you can follow-up before the pilot builds up enough steam to put angry postings on the review sites.
- dont rip people off just because they fly a jet. Offer a reasonable price on deicing services, lav service, call-out fees etc. Just because they rolled onto your ramp doesn't mean that they are your hostage and have to pay whatever you dream up.

If you want to attract us small fry:

- have a competitive price on 100LL, advertise it on airnav, 100ll.com, foreflight
- dont ignore us because you think you can only sell us 20gallons.
- make the airport a no grouchyness zone
- offer the option of 'storm stack' for transient pilots even if they dont pay for overnight hangaring. Have them sign that they agree to you moving their plane if a boomer is heading towards the airport and offer to stack their planes into a hangar, space permitting. Dont charge for that service as it costs you next to nothing to provide it, but it'll get people singing your praises if you do.
- never ever move someones aircraft if they didn't mark off that option on the sign in sheet. Some aircraft owners are really neurotic about their aircraft, you could grope their wife and they wouldn't care, but you hook a tug to their aircraft and they scream bloody murder.

I know it is a small place and you can't provide 24/7 on-site service. Set up your phone system in a way that you can forward calls to your cell number or that of a trusted employee from an auto-attendant. Consider waiving you call-out fee with a minimum fuel purchase. Occasionally, folks will have to make unplanned fuel stops due to higher than anticipated headwinds. They will buy a fair amount of fuel and a happy customer who 'didn't even have to pay a call out fee' when he landed at midnight will tell lots of others about it. If you or your lineman come out for a call-out, light up the FBO building and offer the pax to hang out in the FBO while you take care of the plane.

Oh, and it is Jamestown, ND. Have a couple of Parkas available in the FBO so people not familiar with the climate dont freeze to death on the way from the airport to the Pizza Ranch :D .
 
Sir, thanks for asking!

Competitive fuel costs.
I always like getting a "CTAF response" but others may not agree to that.
A way back in after hours...
A way out after hours....
A helpful staff...
 
I've bought gas at Jamestown before, on trips between the Seattle area and the Midwest.

I prefer small airports like yours to the busy places surrounded by class B or C airspace. Easy to stop in, fuel up, maybe check your weather terminal, and be on my way.

No complaints or suggestions from me- A pleasent experience all around.

Do you have crop dusters in Jamestown?

The only thing to be aware of for outsiders in your area is to watch out for ag pilots that may land/take off on any runway no matter the wind direction, and not talking on unicom.

Doesn't bother me in the least, as those guys are earning a living, while I'm just goofing off.
I always keep a sharp lookout, and give them the right-of-way.
 
Fuel, food, wifi, strippers, those are the most important. Flight planning room is nice, lounge is nice, bunk room real nice. If you're catering to the jet crowd a pool table is good.
 
Here's a really important one for your staff to know: If there is a customer, regardless if they are immediately in need of help or not, the employees need to put down their phone, stop texting, stop talking to friends, and make themselves available, with a good, helpful attitude. If there with another customer, at least acknowledge the new customer and try to help them as soon as possible to get a fuel order started, etc.

Often as transients, we're just trying to make a quick pit stop, and get irritated if we need to wait 10 minutes before someone even calls for the fuel truck.

Ask your customers if they need help with getting bags to/from the plane (a small cart could be handy). I know when I'm travelling with my young boys, I'll rarely decline a little help.

That you are asking these questions tells me you are well on the right track.

We have an FBO at Fullerton, Calif, AFI, that is well know for providing great service. Fuel isn't the cheapest, but it's reasonable for the area. Nothing special facility-wise, other than friendly, efficient service. They've been in business for almost 50 years.
 
Some ability to eat and drink. Snacks on site is nice but being able to run to somewhere to eat is pretty big. If you cannot provide a courtesy car (seriously look at how much of a problem it really was, don't let one incident ruin it, tons of airports do this successfully) then you should have rental cars available.

When I'm traveling there are two types of airports I use
1.) poor service but self-serve gas at decent price that I can quick turn at. They're not going to make a lot of money off me because I'm just looking for the cheapest fuel possible.

2.) The place I'm actually going to make my final destination or stop for the night. Service is big here and I'm willing to pay. I've been using Signature a lot lately when traveling and really can't complain. Yeah it's pricey but not really considering the other costs and when I land I will be in my rental car in 5 minutes and it's already running with either the AC or heat on as appropriate.
 
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Doughnuts. ...don't forget the doughnuts.
 
Things that don't cost you a dime, but will make you a dollar:


  1. Greet/acknowledge EVERY person that walks into your FBO from EITHER door in the first 30 seconds.
  2. Go to the local sandwich shop and pick up their to go menu and ask them for free delivery or 20% discount for pilots
  3. Go to the local Pizza place and get their menu and a discount/delivery
  4. Go to the local Asian place and get their menu and a discount / delivery
  5. Go to the local motel / hotels and get them to give you the best rate, guaranteed for pilots.
  6. See if you can get local motel / hotel to offer shuttle
  7. Go and negotiate on behalf of your pilots / customers for the things that keep them in town overnight.
  8. Greet/Acknowledge EVERY person in the first 30 seconds, even if it is just a "welcome, I am helping this guy, but I will get to you next". I can't tell you how often I have had to stand behind conversations that turned out to be somebody trying to find a funny YouTube video of a cat playing the piano.
  9. Build a Display / Board with all the phone numbers of the restruants and motels that you got a discount negotiated. Post it by the phone so guys can be tempted without asking for suggestions.
  10. Greet/Acknowledge EVERY person in the first 30 seconds. (This one is really important, and greet people that come in the front door from the parking lot AND the guys that come in from the ramp.)
 
weilke said:
- never ever move someones aircraft if they didn't mark off that option on the sign in sheet. Some aircraft owners are really neurotic about their aircraft, you could grope their wife and they wouldn't care, but you hook a tug to their aircraft and they scream bloody murder.
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Sugarland TX, May 2007. I was marshaled by the FBO into a spot near the main bldg. I parked, tied down, set my parking brake(it's spring in TX), asked if it was ok there for 2-3 days, and was told yes.

They had a Desert Storm veteran body returning home on a mil jet and without calling, or email, or notification, they hooked up a tug, and DRUG my plane to another tie-down with the main gear skidding all the way. Of course, it broke the nose gear steering link, so I went home with no nose gear steering and the FBO said 'sue us' rather than fix it.
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Taos NV, winter 2008. I chose my parking place, tied down, put on my wing covers to protect from snow, signed in, left my info and went skiing. I come back, and my plane has been moved so they could plow the snow. Only thing is, they removed the wing covers to tug the plane. 'Where are my wing covers? You know, bright yellow with red trim, tied on to the wings so that the snow can be taken off?' 'Don't know what you're talking about sir, never heard of wing covers before.' I start hunting around the FBO, find the wing covers stashed in a locker in the FBO hangar in a corner.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KCOS, winter 2010. Marshaled in, park, leave info with desk, don't order fuel. Come back and find my plane with 31 gallons of new fuel in it. 'No prob, get your defueler and take your fuel out of my tanks.' 'uh - we can't defuel avgas, only jet-A' 'not my problem, drain it on the ramp, put it in a bucket, siphon it with your mouth, but get it out of there. I don't even know if you put avgas, or jet-A in' 'oh, I'm sure it is avgas sir, here is your bill' 'stuff that, I will take it out myself' 'you can't do that sir' 'ok, goodbye, you can have the cops come and get me to pay for avgas that I didn't order, don't need and you won't take back'.

Don't effing TOUCH my plane, don't look at it, don't walk by it, the plane is invisible to you FBO people unless or until I say to touch it. If I die because of my mistake, that's on me. If I die because of YOUR mistake, you still get to go home to mommy after your shift.
 
I leave my brakes off and chock the mains. I've had line crew stick my plane in a hangar in front of an impending hailstorm, I appreciated the heck out of it.
 
Fine, call me. My name and cell number is on the sheet at the sign-in on your FBO. If it's not, look in the pilot vent window at my biz card, and call that number before you TOUCH the plane. You will be instructed accordingly.
 
Henning said:
I leave my brakes off and chock the mains.
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I agree here. I don't see the benefit of setting the parking brake. A good set of chocks & chains is much better. I always assume there is a chance someone will need to move the plane. While I'd certainly prefer they don't, I can understand why they might need to.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I agree here. I don't see the benefit of setting the parking brake. A good set of chocks & chains is much better. I always assume there is a chance someone will need to move the plane. While I'd certainly prefer they don't, I can understand why they might need to.
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Then don't set it. Not like the designer of the aircraft put it there for a reason. It was tied down, and no chocks were avail or offered.

I don't assume anything, which is why I asked before leaving if it was good there for 2-3 days. No assumption, my plane would NOT move for 3 days.
 
docmirror said:
Fine, call me. My name and cell number is on the sheet at the sign-in on your FBO. If it's not, look in the pilot vent window at my biz card, and call that number before you TOUCH the plane. You will be instructed accordingly.
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+1000

I was at K15,Osage Beach for four days a few years ago, playing golf at Tan-Tar-A. I parked the plane and tied it down where they told me to...and where they said it could remain for the duration.

Upon my return, I found It had been moved upfront where it was visible from the highway. I queried them as was told it had been moved back and forth every day for three days. They liked my plane and wanted it visible to the public during the day.

Livid is an understatement.

Don't touch my plane without permission unless it's a dire emergency.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Things that don't cost you a dime, but will make you a dollar:

  1. Greet/acknowledge EVERY person that walks into your FBO from EITHER door in the first 30 seconds.
Click to expand...

This is a big BIG one.

A recent trip to San Angelo, TX for a Pilots n Paws run had me pulling up to Skyline Aviation. The line guy was extremely friendly, said howdy, and what could he do while we are stopped. But the most impressive to me was that the FBO manager was walking out to the plane within 2-3 minute of me shutting the engine off, greeting me, and offering bottled water to me and my passengers.

This level of one-on-one service is what would keep me returning.
 
Courtesy car is important. If it's being abused, be sure to get drivers license copies.

What kind of "abuse" are we talking? Just keeping it too long, or actual damage.

Even better might be cars available for rent with "hourly" and "daily" prices. Just a beater with wheels is fine. Nothing fancy required.

Coordinating with off site car rental places can be a royal pain. Plus, if you are in a small enough town, neither car rental or taxis are even _available_.

I cancelled a trip to a small town just last weekend simply because there was no ground transportation available. It was not a critical trip, so I just scrubbed it. I would have been willing to pay the FBO for a rental car. I asked them about ground transport, "we don't have any". Do you know of any other options? "No". Gee, thanks.
 
Here's an idea for the courtesy car. Make it a beater and tell them the first hour is free, and additional hours are $x/hr.
 
docmirror said:
Then don't set it. Not like the designer of the aircraft put it there for a reason. It was tied down, and no chocks were avail or offered.

I don't assume anything, which is why I asked before leaving if it was good there for 2-3 days. No assumption, my plane would NOT move for 3 days.
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I'm not saying the FBO didn't f-up in your case, but consider the following:

1) I don't trust the parking brake to hold; I only use it temporarily when I have to park on a slope until I can get out and chock the plane.

2) I carry my own chocks, always. I also carry my own tiedown straps anytime I'm flying to an airport that I don't know for certain will have ropes/chains.

3) If a plane near me catches fire, or there is an accident nearby, I want them to be able to quickly move my plane.

To the OP: Obviously, this part of the thread is pointing out that moving an aircraft without permission can be a very sensitive topic, and pilots have very different views on this. The point is, either have a clearly stated policy that you must be able to move the plane under some circumstances, or get permission first.
 
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Wow, I am shocked to hear of such instances of line personnel moving planes and fueling them without permission and the "sue us" line just amazes me. I have definitely never touched a plane without calling anyone and seeing the comments directly from pilots on here, I will stress that even more to my employees. Greeting people is a huge thing we stress here and I try to be out there right as the engine stops to throw a set of chocks under the tires and then ask what I can do to help. I will definitely make my project tomorrow to more clearly post hotel and restaurant information and get some menus from the places that pilots have frequented, for example. Such incredible advice that you are all posting, I am so glad that I posted to this site; such a welcoming community!
 
@dans2992, abuse of the courtesy car started off by pilots who bought Jet A or Avgas fuel from us, not putting any unleaded into the courtesy car. We then made a car sign-in sheet and kept the car topped off and had a little tick box to show if you put fuel in the vehicle or not. Soon that started getting abused and people ticked the box but did indeed not put fuel in. We also had several people coming in that were not taking fuel and asking to the use the car and it kept it away from paying customers so we started offering the car less to those who didn't take fuel. The breaking point was when a car came back two full days later after use by a group of pilots, who didn't answer their cell phones during that entire time (they said they needed the car for only three hours) and when the vehicle was back they said that they topped off the vehicle with fuel. When we took care of the pilots and got the plane on their way, we found the vehicle down to 1/4 fuel and Mcdonald's bags all in the car and spilled coke on one of the seats, it was unreal and the boss, at the time, pulled the car immediately. I really hope to get a courtesy car (a beater) soon since I can see its importance to pilots. Too bad that people here abused it too much (oh and there was also one case of a driver backing it into a pole near a bar, so we assume he was driving it drunk) so it became a hot topic for us and thus pulled it. If business picks back up, I will definitely make it a point to get a car back here.
 
Sounds like the solution to the car issues you're having is to take a credit card # and tell folks if they don't replace the fuelthey've used, you'll charge them $8/gallon, just like the big rental car firms will do. Also, if they don't return it when they say they will, and you can't reach them or otherwise hear from them, you'll report it stolen to the cops. Say the last part with a wink and nod, so they think it's funny. Then tell 'em, you're serious.
 
Yeah perhaps taking a credit card number will be a solution to prevent such abuse. When their money is directly on the line, that might indeed discourage the abusers. In regards to having a "beater", does that make the FBO look too cheap or unprofessional at all? For busy airports with maybe two FBOs at an airport I am sure the cars are nice, but would you arriving to a small airport and seeing a beater being pulled up to you discourage you in any way or maybe compel you to write a negative review? Or does the benefit of having a car outweigh the appearance of the car?
 
Jeff Oslick said:
1) I don't trust the parking brake to hold; I only use it temporarily when I have to park on a slope until I can get out and chock the plane.

2) I carry my own chocks, always. I also carry my own tiedown straps anytime I'm flying to an airport that I don't know for certain will have ropes/chains.

3) If a plane near me catches fire, or there is an accident nearby, I want them to be able to quickly move my plane.
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1) Fix your parking brake.

2) If your parking brake worked, no chocks needed. My plane had working brakes, evidenced by it skidding across the ramp. If I were going into an unimproved strip, I might have carried extra stuff. This was Fort Worth to Sugarland. Not the Congo.

3) Emergencies trump my broken steering link. I don't plan for the plane next to me spontaneously combusting. Suppose they moved it, and an accident happened where it was damaged, while the space it was in prior to being moved was clear and safe? Hey - thanks for moving my plane into the destruction zone, not.
 
Did I mention that some pilots are a bit neurotic about their plane ?

Have a one page sign-in sheet, put a 'Yes/No initial here' selection on there on whether you are allowed to move the plane. Explain that you won't be able to move the plane out of the path of a hailstorm if the answer is 'No' and that a verbal permission via phone won't do. Get contact information, use that contact information. Put the fuel order on the sign-in sheet. Stick to the fuel order, itty bitty aircraft are payload critical, putting in too much fuel can strand the plane on your ramp. If the order is 'fuel on day of departure with owner present' don't fill the plane with a level in the filler-neck right after the owner turns his back to you.

Make sure your staff knows about the turning limitations of different GA aircraft.
 
redknight said:
@dans2992, abuse of the courtesy car started off by pilots who bought Jet A or Avgas fuel from us, not putting any unleaded into the courtesy car. We then made a car sign-in sheet and kept the car topped off and had a little tick box to show if you put fuel in the vehicle or not. Soon that started getting abused and people ticked the box but did indeed not put fuel in. We also had several people coming in that were not taking fuel and asking to the use the car and it kept it away from paying customers so we started offering the car less to those who didn't take fuel. The breaking point was when a car came back two full days later after use by a group of pilots, who didn't answer their cell phones during that entire time (they said they needed the car for only three hours) and when the vehicle was back they said that they topped off the vehicle with fuel. When we took care of the pilots and got the plane on their way, we found the vehicle down to 1/4 fuel and Mcdonald's bags all in the car and spilled coke on one of the seats, it was unreal and the boss, at the time, pulled the car immediately. I really hope to get a courtesy car (a beater) soon since I can see its importance to pilots. Too bad that people here abused it too much (oh and there was also one case of a driver backing it into a pole near a bar, so we assume he was driving it drunk) so it became a hot topic for us and thus pulled it. If business picks back up, I will definitely make it a point to get a car back here.
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I think the $x/hr would put a stop to that kind of thing in a hurry. :)

GPS trackers are cheap.... In the case of the multi-day excursion, you could have just retrieved it on the first night... ;)
 
Car fuel issue is easily solved. Take a CC or $50 cash deposit for use of the car. Fill it one time, check it when it comes back, and if it takes no fuel, deposit refunded. If not, fuel deducted from deposit. Can also be used to secure payment for a car taken more than 1 day. Every time the car should be full of gas when it leaves. doesn't matter what's in it when it comes back, just top it and deduct.

Be nice, but business is business. I think that's what they do at Deming NV, and it didn't bother me a bit. Nice to leave the FBO with a full tank.
 
For what it's worth, I have a hard time making a fuel stop with the family without a courtesy car.

"Ok everyone, we'll order a pizza and eat here in the lobby" really doesn't go over too well...
 
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