Fast Luxury Sedan - $10k

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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Debating on selling the Z4 for a more or less straight up trade on a mid-size fast sedan. Right now I'm thinking 2000ish Jaguar XJR (X308 body) or Mercedes E55 AMG. I'm not interested in an M5 as to buy one for $10k means high miles, where for $10k or less in the other options I can get 60k or so on the clock.

I specifically want 4 doors and a sunroof, don't want to spend more than $10k. Not really interested in a convertible this go round. Not necessarily attached to any year range, but do want something that's in the mid 5 digits or less on the odometer.
 
Ted, Celia has been driving a BMW 535 (the twin-turbo model) for about five years, just passed 100k miles, and it is a hoot. We have been pleasantly surprised at the durability and reliability, have only had one costly repair (water pump, which if I am understanding properly, is electric, not engine-driven). It wasn't horrible, just an unwanted repair.

It's fast and gets amazingly good mileage (example: aggressive road trip to and from visiting grandmother, around 520 miles with a pretty substantial city component, MPH average around 78, MPG average around 27).

Still looks good and goes like stink. Well, almost like stink, as it is not wheel-spinning torque at launch (maybe it is, but the traction control deals with that), at highway speed, it feels relentless, though I've never driven it above 130 or so. It was still accelerating nicely then.
 
I do like that body style, Spike, although it exceeds the budget unless I go to a smaller engine.

Generally looking for a minimum of 350 HP out of the box. The E55 has I believe 347 as its rating, but makes up for that with a lot of low-end torque. XJR has 370 and being supercharged, easy to get more. Couple of pulleys and you hit over 400.
 
Huh. Looked to me (from a quick gander) that one could get a decent 535i, 2008 model, for around ten grand (low 100k miles). Presumably, some room for negotiation, as these are dealers.
 
Here you go. A 550 in the 10k range, bet you could knock a grand off.

V8 power. Hubba.
 
The consideration would be whether I'd be willing to accept over 100k on the clock. I've typically bought vehicles above 100k before, but thinking this time I'd prefer under 75k. There's a price premium for that. :)

But the 550i would meet the other criteria, so that might be worth consideration...
 
Gotta have European?

My FIL has a 2006 Infinity Q45 he bought with 50k on it a few years back. Rides great, goes like hell, only service he's he's had other than routine is replacing a warped brake rotor. Has well over 140k on it now.

Nice machine. Not selling it but I bet you could find a nice one well under $10k.
 
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I have driven an E 63 AMG which after a brief, but undevoted, search seemed very hard to find a used one. However, it is a very nice car.
 
I sorta figured, based upon your year-model and market-segment description, that 100k+ miles was a given.

I mean, I know everyone likes to make fun of Jaguar reliability, but after 15 years, how many are going to be under 100k miles?
 
Debating on selling the Z4 for a more or less straight up trade on a mid-size fast sedan. Right now I'm thinking 2000ish Jaguar XJR (X308 body) or Mercedes E55 AMG. I'm not interested in an M5 as to buy one for $10k means high miles, where for $10k or less in the other options I can get 60k or so on the clock.

I specifically want 4 doors and a sunroof, don't want to spend more than $10k. Not really interested in a convertible this go round. Not necessarily attached to any year range, but do want something that's in the mid 5 digits or less on the odometer.

Just a nod of respect. you follow my strategy for car buying. buy a fun, nice European car with impeccable maintenance and drive it for what it would cost me to drive a new kia.

you're alos the only guy on here that doesn't think an Aztec costs 40K/year plus gas.

have you ever shared your annual costs (MX/INS)? Gas is easy to figure and hangars are easy to figure out locally.
 
I've heard good things about Lincoln Lx V8s.

Older BMWs drive nice, as long as you can fund their care and feeding.

Same with MBZs

Lexus IS RWDs are fun and are a Toyota

Can't mess up getting a older WRX or STI.
 
this is a little dated, but i figured on the E36 M3, about 2,500/year in depreciation, 2-3k in maint and then consumables (tires mostly) on top of that.

so for around $5k/year, i could be all in on a very nice car. owning new cost more by a long shot.
 
4 door M3 is a fun car to have especially if you get the manual. It's more fun than an M5 in my opinion (I've owned both). It is smaller than a five series but you gain a lot with the reduced weight.
 
Gotta have European?

My FIL has a 2006 Infinity Q45 he bought with 50k on it a few years back. Rides great, goes like hell, only service he's he's had other than routine is replacing a warped brake rotor. Has well over 140k on it now.

Nice machine. Not selling it but I bet you could find a nice one well under $10k.

European is not a requirement. My mom used to have a G35 and I did like that car - I should've kept it when we sold it after she drove the thing without oil for 200 miles (engine didn't seize, and seemed fine after oil was added).

A Q45 is too big for the mission, but an M45 would be an option. However those seem to exceed the budget.

I sorta figured, based upon your year-model and market-segment description, that 100k+ miles was a given.

I mean, I know everyone likes to make fun of Jaguar reliability, but after 15 years, how many are going to be under 100k miles?

Your honor, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please devote your attention to post 1:

Right now I'm thinking 2000ish Jaguar XJR (X308 body) or Mercedes E55 AMG. I'm not interested in an M5 as to buy one for $10k means high miles, where for $10k or less in the other options I can get 60k or so on the clock.

There aren't many out there and I would have to travel to get one, but that's fine by me. I've traveled long distances for vehicles. When living in Pennsylvania, I bought a Jaguar XJS from Phoenix. :)

Just a nod of respect. you follow my strategy for car buying. buy a fun, nice European car with impeccable maintenance and drive it for what it would cost me to drive a new kia.

you're alos the only guy on here that doesn't think an Aztec costs 40K/year plus gas.

have you ever shared your annual costs (MX/INS)? Gas is easy to figure and hangars are easy to figure out locally.

Thank you, that strategy has worked well for me. :)

When I ran the numbers at the end of my 1000 hours and 4 years on the Aztec, it came out to about $250/hr all-in. So gas, MX, and insurance. My plane was not the best example in the world and I had some expensive work on it, but I flew it a lot which helped.
 
Audi S6/8? I suspect that or a jag are your best options for that money. Might be even RS6
 
The Audi might be a possibility as well.

I'm leaning towards an XJR. It's been a bucket list car and while I like the 2000ish E55 AMG, I have a feeling I'll want more power. The mid 2000s E55 with the supercharger is more the variant I'd like, but those are more expensive and might be good for a follow-on car.

The XJR I'll want more power as well, but a few pulleys on the blower oughta solve that right quick.
 
The Audi might be a possibility as well.

I'm leaning towards an XJR. It's been a bucket list car and while I like the 2000ish E55 AMG, I have a feeling I'll want more power. The mid 2000s E55 with the supercharger is more the variant I'd like, but those are more expensive and might be good for a follow-on car.

The XJR I'll want more power as well, but a few pulleys on the blower oughta solve that right quick.

If it's a bucket-list car, then you should just get it. No point in trying to look for something that wont make you happy anyway. It's a nice ride, fairly rare and very good looking car. Mid-2000s DaimlerCrysler cars didn't have very good reputation anyway.
 
Well, a Z4 is on my to consider list, so hit me up before you trade it in. Miles/Year/Accessories?
 
If it's a bucket-list car, then you should just get it. No point in trying to look for something that wont make you happy anyway. It's a nice ride, fairly rare and very good looking car. Mid-2000s DaimlerCrysler cars didn't have very good reputation anyway.

They're both bucket list cars to a degree. However as one of my friends pointed out when I told him I hadn't modified the Z4 at all: "Bull****. You modify everything. If you had a typewriter you'd make it faster."

I love horsepower and the only thing better than gobs of horsepower is even more horsepower. I like a car that sends others home with their tails between their legs when they try to start something. Like John Wayne said, "Don't pick a fight, but if you find yourself in one, I suggest you make damn sure you win." My 3000GT VR4 did that (450ish HP). The Z4, not so much. The Z4 doesn't have easy ways of making more power (not interested in the $4,500 supercharger kit), and the same goes for the 2000 E55. The XJR is simple to get more power.

My only conflict is that the E55 is more torquey out of the box, and might be more torquey and providing of instant-on torque overall being a naturally aspirated 5.5L V8 vs a supercharged 4.0L V8. Part of why I sold the VR4 was the turbo lag. Superchargers don't have lag like turbos, but I do remember from the XJRs I drove as a mechanic that they didn't have quite the same feeling of instant kick-in-the-ass torque. Of course, the pulley swaps would help that.

I'm not going to find an E55 locally to test drive, so I really just have to pick one, drive it for a bit, and then sell it if I don't like it after a while.
 
Well, a Z4 is on my to consider list, so hit me up before you trade it in. Miles/Year/Accessories?

2003 3.0i 6-speed sport package. M shifter (weighted and shorter to reduce throw). Gray exterior and interior with red seats and door accents. 116k on the clock. Parking brake needs adjustment (too loose) and it has a dent in the left front fender caused by the parking brake being too loose and it rolling into a tree.
 
Zee 4
 

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They're both bucket list cars to a degree. However as one of my friends pointed out when I told him I hadn't modified the Z4 at all: "Bull****. You modify everything. If you had a typewriter you'd make it faster."

I love horsepower and the only thing better than gobs of horsepower is even more horsepower. I like a car that sends others home with their tails between their legs when they try to start something. Like John Wayne said, "Don't pick a fight, but if you find yourself in one, I suggest you make damn sure you win." My 3000GT VR4 did that (450ish HP). The Z4, not so much. The Z4 doesn't have easy ways of making more power (not interested in the $4,500 supercharger kit), and the same goes for the 2000 E55. The XJR is simple to get more power.

My only conflict is that the E55 is more torquey out of the box, and might be more torquey and providing of instant-on torque overall being a naturally aspirated 5.5L V8 vs a supercharged 4.0L V8. Part of why I sold the VR4 was the turbo lag. Superchargers don't have lag like turbos, but I do remember from the XJRs I drove as a mechanic that they didn't have quite the same feeling of instant kick-in-the-ass torque. Of course, the pulley swaps would help that.

I'm not going to find an E55 locally to test drive, so I really just have to pick one, drive it for a bit, and then sell it if I don't like it after a while.

NA vs Turbo vs SC.. this should be fun! :)

You should consider Lexus GS400/430. They are fast, but in the E55 NA zone. You can also go very insane and get a GS300(old Supra motor) and slap 2 turbos on it. That's a sleeper.

For ready made turbo cars, Audi is the king in that era. Even the US S6/4 2.7TT can be brought to over 400hp for peanuts money. RS4/6 are just insane cars at the time, but pricier. Hell, you can even take 1.8T close to 400. With lots of lag though. Tough to find these unmolested.

If you're not trying to save gas(and you can go back and forth on that), SC is better for street car in large engines. My opinion only. Turbo suits smaller I4/V6/I6 configuration better. OTOH, for the ultimate torque and hp, lag be dammed, there is no arguing with large turbos.

Interestingly, I have an SC car and as far as I can tell, almost no boost is made in first gear(MT). I know I can easily bump the power by 150 or so hp with a pulley, but for now, I want to keep my CPO warranty
 
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I have a 2003 S500 and it has been a great car. I bought it new and have had nothing but good luck with it. It has about 80,000 miles on it and has only seen snow once. I store it inside every winter, still looks like new top and bottom.
 
Other than the e36 (which isn't a sedan), I cannot think of a single fast, 15 year old, luxury sedan with less than 60,000 miles that would cost under $10,000. The e55 and the e39 are really the only two that are fast, luxury, and sedans of that era that I can think but you'll be hard pressed to find one with that few miles. I think even with that criteria, they'll be just as unreliable as something with more miles because it'll be the original parts wearing out, as opposed to those that have already been replaced on something with higher miles. (But that's just a theory).

535i wouldn't be fast.
WRX/STI would be sporty enough but not luxury.
The other suggested are close but since you've already owned an e39, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed in their performance.

Just go for the e39, come back to the club, you won't regret it, I promise. ;)
 
I'm not a Toyota fan, really don't like the way they drive. So that leaves the Lexus out. Also don't like their interiors. I could do an Infiniti, but I didn't find a single M45 with a manual for sale. I thought they sold them that way, but could be wrong.

Despite popular belief, I did actually search around to see what the cars cost in the mileage range I want before making my initial post. ;)

In the luxury car realm, you always have a subset of people who buy these sorts of cars and then use them as Sunday drivers rather than daily drivers. Back in '06 I bought a '92 XJS V12 5-speed (the 5-speed was a conversion that I had done previously) with under 50k on the odometer.

Not particularly interested in an E39. I like variety in the fleet, and we already have an E38. Plus, like I said, an E39 blows the budget to get an M5, which is what I'd want if I got an E39. I think one of the issues with the Z4 is that I didn't get an M roadster, which I think I would've been happier with.

I was a Jaguar mechanic in college and saw the whole range of cars. Some with 200k and some with 20k, for the same model year. Engine and transmission reliability was typically pretty similar, although XJRs had transmissions regularly go out at about 100k unless you changed the fluid ("Sealed for life" means "Sealed until it explodes, which will happen sooner because we never tell you to change it"). What you really noticed with the higher mile examples were interiors that were more worn out, especially the driver's seat and various buttons. You also would tend to have more little issues go wrong, and some of these engines also have significant items that need attention. For example, the timing chain guides tend to go out on the M62 engine in the E38, and they have the same issue on the XJR's 4.0L V8. That's a big job to do, and is almost entirely based on mileage, rather than years.

Rachel, the S62 in your M5 also has its share of higher mileage issues - rod bearings being one, but I'd also look into issues with the timing chain guides and the VANOS solenoids. I know that those can be issues on the M62tu.

Some things go out based on age, others based on miles. Yes, cars last a long time, and I am perfectly capable of doing my own work. Summer of 2014 I did the timing chains, guides, tensioner, water pump, hoses, valley pan, intake gaskets, etc. on Laurie's E38. It was around $1,500ish worth of parts, free labor (me). Also rebuilt the suspension (that's another weak point on the E38/E39), which was around another $1k. If we'd bought a lower mile example (bought it with 142k), I could have at least deferred that work for a while.
 
Is manual a requirement? Because I don't think either XJR or E55 come with MT. In fact I think only e39 M has MT available our of everything discussed. Some Audis maybe

I get the Toyota answer. I'm the same way, but thought I'd throw it out there.

I think Rachel may have confused you with me for the e39 M. I used to have one.
 
A manual isn't a requirement, and you are correct that the E55 and XJR don't come with manuals. There is a (very expensive) manual transmission swap that you can buy for the XJR, but I wouldn't bother. My point was if I'm going to get an Infiniti, I want a manual. Eventually that will probably bug me, but I don't mind a good automatic now. The 5HP30 in the E38 is actually so nice that it doesn't bug me to not have a clutch in that car. The Mercedes 5-speed in the E55 and XJR (same transmission) I also recall as being very nice.
 
Is manual a requirement? Because I don't think either XJR or E55 come with MT. In fact I think only e39 M has MT available our of everything discussed. Some Audis maybe

I get the Toyota answer. I'm the same way, but thought I'd throw it out there.

I think Rachel may have confused you with me for the e39 M. I used to have one.

Ahh whoops, yes, I did do that. Sorry Ted! :redface: And yeah, the e39 never came with an automatic, which is what I love about it.
 
Debating on selling the Z4 for a more or less straight up trade on a mid-size fast sedan. Right now I'm thinking 2000ish Jaguar XJR (X308 body) or Mercedes E55 AMG. I'm not interested in an M5 as to buy one for $10k means high miles, where for $10k or less in the other options I can get 60k or so on the clock.

I specifically want 4 doors and a sunroof, don't want to spend more than $10k. Not really interested in a convertible this go round. Not necessarily attached to any year range, but do want something that's in the mid 5 digits or less on the odometer.

Looking for a getaway car? :D
 
No problem. :)

Don't get me wrong, manuals are my preference by far. I've forcibly ripped perfectly good automatic transmissions out of cars and relocated them to dumpsters before so that I could put a manual transmission in, and spent plenty of time and money doing so. Unfortunately, a lot of cars just don't come with manuals, so it comes down to looking at the full package and deciding what you want.

The other big factor is time and money allocation. So for example, I could buy an XJR and I could put in the aforementioned expensive manual transmission conversion, and then also put in the expensive Kenne Bell twin screw blower upgrades. I'd then have $10k+ in upgrades into the $10k car I bought, which would now be worth maybe $11k and be hard to sell. 10-15 years ago, I would've done that. Today, I don't even have the time to turn those wrenches, and have other things I'd rather spend the money on, like airplanes. I also have boring practical things to think about like what will fit in the garage well.
 
Don't think the Infinity M came with a manual. I know the Mx awd came with a his 'n hers 5 speed.
 
MIL has a nice 93 hunter green XJS that has been sitting in the barn for over a decade. I think she had a minor problem with it and couldn't afford to fix it at the time, it's a shame because it'd probably cost $10K to get it all running and put new rubber and suspension in it. Not counting what damage mice and such might have done.


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So, not sure if 4 doors is a hard requirement but check out the Infiniti G coupes, which at least have some likeness of rear seats and are a hoot to drive. I preferred the rear wheel over the all wheel drive, and they did a tuned version some years (IPL).
 
Just stood at an auction and watched an 2009 Jag XF Supercharged go for $4900.

Sounded amazing when revved up.
 
MIL has a nice 93 hunter green XJS that has been sitting in the barn for over a decade. I think she had a minor problem with it and couldn't afford to fix it at the time, it's a shame because it'd probably cost $10K to get it all running and put new rubber and suspension in it. Not counting what damage mice and such might have done.

I've done about a billion hours of work on those cars. It actually probably wouldn't be as bad to get running again as you'd imagine.

Not an XJR.. but a jag nevertheless :)

My first car was an '82 XJ-S V12 which I rebuilt with the intent of making it an improved version of that Cannonball XJ-S winner. I have the book somewhere. The V12 itself never got warmed over much, but bumping up the timing a few degrees, improving the air intake, free-flowing exhaust, and dumpsterizing the TH400 in favor of a Tremec TKO made a huge difference drivetrain wise. Koni shocks and sport springs with 255/40/17s all around, she'd run 120 all day long at 3000 RPM and not even break a sweat.

I miss that car. I don't miss the (many) speeding tickets I got with it. :)

So, not sure if 4 doors is a hard requirement but check out the Infiniti G coupes, which at least have some likeness of rear seats and are a hoot to drive. I preferred the rear wheel over the all wheel drive, and they did a tuned version some years (IPL).

While 4 doors isn't technically a hard requirement, I'm setting it as a requirement for this. I did like the G35 my mom used to have but a Ganthing doesn't meet the horsepower requirement without significant modifications, so that rules it out.
 
If you only had henning here to advise you................:rolleyes:

Ya know, I heard he once put a Chevy 350 in a Ferrari and spun the back axle off...:rolleyes2:
 
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