Fallout from MH 370

[Dav8or]

Things relating to safety in the airlines only seem to change after there is mass carnage and death. Guess that's how the free market works. Anyhow, I have a feeling that there will be mandated changes to international and national airline ops coming as a result of flight MH 370.

I heard on the news that there are already people talking about mandatory satellite data streaming for all airliners that include data like, speed, altitude, location and engine health. I think this is a great idea. I have to say I am embarrased by the aviation and airline community by this tragedy. People routinely track cargo in trains and trucks by satellite. PLBs that work all over the planet are available in sporting goods stores at a reasonable price. Hell, I can find a lost cell phone with an ap and another cell phone.

But an airliner filled with paying customers? Who the hell knows where that could be? This is the 21st century. The fact that this airliner is still completely missing is sad and unacceptable.

In addition to the satellite data stream, I would also propose mandatory 406 ELTs that have an activation switch in the cockpit, just like my plane has. Also ELTs that break off, activate automatically and float when they hit water. This is not complex science. A great challenge for aerospace engineering grad students.

I'm sure these changes will come to the airline industry and it's about time.

 

[Everskyward]

I wonder how many ELTs have been activated by pilots before crashing even when there is a manual switch.

 

[3393RP]

Better still, how many millions of flight hours have been accomplished safely without real time monitoring of flights?

Truck and train cargoes are tracked for reasons unrelated to safety.

 

[JOhnH]

I heard someone pushing for rules requiring real time streaming of flight data to ground stations. The only thing holding the airlines back was they are too greed to spend the $100,000 per airplane. I'm sure it could be done for less, if the airlines flew experimentals and the equipment didn't have to be FAA certified. Imagine if there was a 400 passenger RV.

 

[hindsight2020]

Cheapskates abound in aviation. Think about flying in that tube without a commoner simpleton ELT, when adjudicating the prop jobs as unsafe and maintained by cheapskates....

 

[j1b3h0]

The 737 I fly is only two rectal probes short of continuously transmitting just about every conceivable real-time parameter one can think of. The current air transportation is the safest transportation system the world has ever known…by a country mile. Maybe we should learn exactly what happened to 370 before we start legislating more pointless BS. I'll bet that during the week or so since 370 crashed more than 239 transportation related fatalities occurred involving modes other than airliners, but CNN doesn't have much to do.

 

[Jim Logajan]

There seems to be a lack of perspective. Consider:

MH 370 carried 239 people. It was under radar surveillance. It was lack of a proper response that failed those on board, not the lack of some automated system that would, in most cases, merely aid in prompt recovery of debris and remains.

Air France 447 carried 228 people. It was transmitting data via satellite that provided information on possible cause - yet it still took a couple years for the flight recorder to be found.

There just aren't that many airplanes getting lost. Tracking would in most cases not directly save any lives - just help in maybe saving future lives.

In terms of number of deaths, the world is full of tragedies and outrages. For example:
A few days ago a court in Egypt, after just two sessions, sentenced 529 people to death. The crime? The death of a single policeman. More people were sentenced to death than were on both those planes.

 

[j1b3h0]

Plus one.

 

[Neal Howard]

...mandatory 406 ELTs that have an activation switch in the cockpit, just like my plane has...

Mandatory 406 ELTs on airliners with their own self-contained power source which will automatically go off by themselves if the pilot doesn't hit a "snooze alarm" button every few minutes to prove someone is alive and awake in the cockpit (e.g. a type of dead-man's switch, must periodically keep deactivating the countdown timer to keep it from setting off the ELT when the timer hits zero). Hefty fines for ATP pilots who accidentally let their ELTs go off due to forgetting, being pre-occupied, whatever.

Yeah, I know such an idea stinks to high heaven, but is just the kind of thing that a government bureaucracy would come up with and ram down the airline companies' and ATP pilots' throats.

 

[bnt83]

Things relating to safety in the airlines only seem to change after there is mass carnage and death. Guess that's how the free market works. Anyhow, I have a feeling that there will be mandated changes to international and national airline ops coming as a result of flight MH 370.

I heard on the news that there are already people talking about mandatory satellite data streaming for all airliners that include data like, speed, altitude, location and engine health. I think this is a great idea. I have to say I am embarrased by the aviation and airline community by this tragedy. People routinely track cargo in trains and trucks by satellite. PLBs that work all over the planet are available in sporting goods stores at a reasonable price. Hell, I can find a lost cell phone with an ap and another cell phone.

But an airliner filled with paying customers? Who the hell knows where that could be? This is the 21st century. The fact that this airliner is still completely missing is sad and unacceptable.

In addition to the satellite data stream, I would also propose mandatory 406 ELTs that have an activation switch in the cockpit, just like my plane has. Also ELTs that break off, activate automatically and float when they hit water. This is not complex science. A great challenge for aerospace engineering grad students.

I'm sure these changes will come to the airline industry and it's about time.

I'm not seeing the loophole you do
§121.125 Flight following system.

(a) Each certificate holder conducting supplemental operations must show that it has—
(1) An approved flight following system established in accordance with subpart U of this part and adequate for the proper monitoring of each flight, considering the operations to be conducted; and
(2) Flight following centers located at those points necessary—
(i) To ensure the proper monitoring of the progress of each flight with respect to its departure at the point of origin and arrival at its destination, including intermediate stops and diversions therefrom, and maintenance or mechanical delays encountered at those points or stops; and
(ii) To ensure that the pilot in command is provided with all information necessary for the safety of the flight.
(b) A certificate holder conducting supplemental operations may arrange to have flight following facilities provided by persons other than its employees, but in such a case the certificate holder continues to be primarily responsible for operational control of each flight.
(c) A flight following system need not provide for in-flight monitoring by a flight following center.
(d) The certificate holder's operations specifications specify the flight following system it is authorized to use and the location of the centers.

§121.122 Communications facilities—supplemental operations.

(a) Each certificate holder conducting supplemental operations other than all-cargo operations in an airplane with more than two engines must show that a two-way radio communication system or other means of communication approved by the FAA is available. It must ensure reliable and rapid communications under normal operating conditions over the entire route (either direct or via approved point-to-point circuits) between each airplane and the certificate holder, and between each airplane and the appropriate air traffic services, except as specified in §121.351(c).
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, each certificate holder conducting supplemental operations other than all-cargo operations in an airplane with more than two engines must provide voice communications for ETOPS where voice communication facilities are available. In determining whether facilities are available, the certificate holder must consider potential routes and altitudes needed for diversion to ETOPS Alternate Airports. Where facilities are not available or are of such poor quality that voice communication is not possible, another communication system must be substituted.
(c) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, for ETOPS beyond 180 minutes each certificate holder conducting supplemental operations other than all-cargo operations in an airplane with more than two engines must have a second communication system in addition to that required by paragraph (b) of this section. That system must be able to provide immediate satellite-based voice communications of landline telephone-fidelity. The system must provide communication capabilities between the flight crew and air traffic services and the flight crew and the certificate holder. In determining whether such communications are available, the certificate holder must consider potential routes and altitudes needed for diversion to ETOPS Alternate Airports. Where immediate, satellite-based voice communications are not available, or are of such poor quality that voice communication is not possible, another communication system must be substituted.
(d) Operators of turbine engine powered airplanes do not need to meet the requirements of paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section until February 15, 2008.

§121.353 Emergency equipment for operations over uninhabited terrain areas: Flag, supplemental, and certain domestic operations.

Unless the airplane has the following equipment, no person may conduct a flag or supplemental operation or a domestic operation within the States of Alaska or Hawaii over an uninhabited area or any other area that (in its operations specifications) the Administrator specifies required equipment for search and rescue in case of an emergency:
(a) Suitable pyrotechnic signaling devices.
(b) An approved survival type emergency locator transmitter. Batteries used in this transmitter must be replaced (or recharged, if the battery is rechargeable) when the transmitter has been in use for more than 1 cumulative hour, or when 50 percent of their useful life (or for rechargeable batteries, 50 percent of their useful life of charge) has expired, as established by the transmitter manufacturer under its approval. The new expiration date for replacing (or recharging) the battery must be legibly marked on the outside of the transmitter. The battery useful life (or useful life of charge) requirements of this paragraph do not apply to batteries (such as water-activated batteries) that are essentially unaffected during probable storage intervals.
(c) Enough survival kits, appropriately equipped for the route to be flown for the number of occupants of the airplane.


I hate to tell you but...

#1.a. ELT antenna performance is based on the antenna having a clear view of the sky. Don't believe me? Look it up. Installation requires them to be within a few degrees of vertical. How many times do airplanes come to rest with the ELT antenna pointing up during a crash?

#1.b. I see a lot of "rod" type ELT antennas out there with a flimsy base. I guarantee these will break off in most accidents, true jets have blade type antennas. So let’s start poking holes and installing multiple antennas since they are a weak link. Never mind these can cause radio interference with other aircraft systems.

#2 Floating ELT's- Laughable In my opinion. They are strapped into a metal tray with metal straps, the assembly is supposed to withstand 100g's. Then it’s connected to a coax. Even if the ELT floated it’s anchored to the airplane via the coax and the remote switch panel wires which often resemble a telephone cord.

#3 ELT transmitters - are not a substitute nor are they intended to replace the Under Water Locator Beacon, which apparently very few general population people and even the aviation participants here know about.

#4 All new ELT’s, going back many years, have required a cockpit switch panel. You cannot install a new ELT without the remote switch panel, and now an audible alarm, all part of the TSO requirements.

#5 There is a study out there from years back that showed some ridiculously low success rate of automatic ELTs both surviving the crash and transmitting. Something around 60% IRRC that has only improved slightly.

#6 IRRC even the life rafts on board a 121 operator are equipped with an ELT. They are also equipped with lights that activate if they get wet. The light allow people to find the life raft in the event of ditching at night.

 

[Shepherd]

Just move the switch so the box can't be turned off.

 

[Silvaire]

Bottom line: Nobody on MH370 died on account of there not being an ELT or real time satellite data streaming.

But I agree that there is probably going to be a boatload of new legislation based almost entirely on the fact that one, or a group of politicians are going to want to convey the appearance that they are, by golly doing something about this travesty. I mean airliners are disappearing at an alarming rate aren't they?

In then end, despite the fact that none of this new technology would have saved anyone in this case, the new legislation will most likely be sold on the economic premise that we won't have to spend so much money looking for the darn thing after the crash.

 

[Art VanDelay]

Bottom line: Nobody on MH370 died on account of there not being an ELT or real time satellite data streaming.

But I agree that there is probably going to be a boatload of new legislation based almost entirely on the fact that one, or a group of politicians are going to want to convey the appearance that they are, by golly doing something about this travesty. I mean airliners are disappearing at an alarming rate aren't they?

In then end, despite the fact that none of this new technology would have saved anyone in this case, the new legislation will most likely be sold on the economic premise that we won't have to spend so much money looking for the darn thing after the crash.

Well, I think that might have happened had there been more Americans on board. As it stands I don't think there's too much political horsepower at stake in our country. China is a different story but they tend to put a lot less value on a human life than we do.

 

[denverpilot]

I wonder how many ELTs have been activated by pilots before crashing even when there is a manual switch.

Not many from what I've read. And of course there's still lots and lots of 121.5-only ones that aren't being watched by satellite anymore...

You could turn one of those on and only a kindly airliner or if you're really lucky, a ground station within line of sight would hear it.

They're pretty useless at this point, unless someone knows you're missing and puts a receiver overhead. Your cell phone will be easier to track, about 24 hours later after the data is pulled and analyzed.

 

[Lindberg]

Things relating to safety in the airlines only seem to change after there is mass carnage and death. Guess that's how the free market works. Anyhow, I have a feeling that there will be mandated changes to international and national airline ops coming as a result of flight MH 370.

I heard on the news that there are already people talking about mandatory satellite data streaming for all airliners that include data like, speed, altitude, location and engine health. I think this is a great idea. I have to say I am embarrased by the aviation and airline community by this tragedy. People routinely track cargo in trains and trucks by satellite. PLBs that work all over the planet are available in sporting goods stores at a reasonable price. Hell, I can find a lost cell phone with an ap and another cell phone.

But an airliner filled with paying customers? Who the hell knows where that could be? This is the 21st century. The fact that this airliner is still completely missing is sad and unacceptable.

In addition to the satellite data stream, I would also propose mandatory 406 ELTs that have an activation switch in the cockpit, just like my plane has. Also ELTs that break off, activate automatically and float when they hit water. This is not complex science. A great challenge for aerospace engineering grad students.

I'm sure these changes will come to the airline industry and it's about time.

The only differences any that would have made in this case are 1) we'd already know happened instead of having to listen to CNN speculate and b) the recovery teams could sailed straight to the bodies.

 

[NoHeat]

In addition to the satellite data stream, I would also propose mandatory 406 ELTs that have an activation switch in the cockpit, just like my plane has.

Is a 406 ELT basically just a satellite stream that's not on all the time?

If that's so, then maybe it would be redundant to add it to the other one that you propose that would be on all the time.

 

[3393RP]

Things relating to safety in the airlines only seem to change after there is mass carnage and death. Guess that's how the free market works.

I don't want to seem insensitive but the loss of 269 people is hardly mass carnage and death. In the US over twice times that many people die in auto accidents every week.

Safety advances in air transport are a priority...it's not fair to say safety is driven by accidents and limited by profit considerations. While accidents certainly have resulted in changes in aircraft and how they are operated, it isn't accurate to say the industry operates on the cheap waiting for disaster to strike before implementing change.

Major commercial airline operations in the US are incredibly safe considering the millions of flights and billions of miles traveled.

According to the NTSB, between 1995 and 2000 there were three deaths per ten billion airline passenger miles on US commercial airlines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#United_States

Those figures have declined significantly in the last 15 years, as air travel has become even safer. Since 9/11 and the crash of American 587 in 2001, there has been only one fatality involving a major US airline in domestic operation. That was Southwest Flight 1248, the overrun in Chicago that killed one person on the ground.

The circus surrounding MH 370 has produced many fantastic theories, along with a huge number of factually inaccurate stories about airlines and air travel. More hyperbole is not needed.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

The only thing holding the airlines back was they are too greed to spend the $100,000 per airplane.

And you are too cheap to spend a few extra dollars so the airlines might consider spending that amount of money on a system that they perceive does not add much, if anything to their bottom line.

 

[oilburner]

Appears MH370 went down because of crazy, and you can't legislate crazy.

 

[SoloEqs]

Appears MH370 went down because of crazy, and you can't legislate crazy.

However, there seems to be no barrier against legislating WHILE crazy.

 

[Piloto]

The tracking technology for this B777 was already onboard via a Mode S ADS-B transponder and ACARS. But these were intentionally turned off. The lack of an ELT signal correlates more with a hijack than an in-flight emergency.

No matter how much technology you put in a vehicle some incidents are unavoidable when you have no control of the others intentions. Like road side bombs IEDs that have destroyed armored vehicles. Or the kid with a laser beam trying to blind a pilot on approach. Or the flock of birds that knock down flight 1549 into the Hudson river, and there were no bad guys here.

A hijack by the crew itself can easily override any technology you put into it.

Even someone can put a poison in the drinking water and no technology check for this.

Risk is a reality you have to live with.

José

 

[Silvaire]

...The only thing holding the airlines back was they are too greed to spend the $100,000 per airplane...

Tell me again exactly how many people have died because the airliner they were on didn't have real time satellite data streaming or an ELT? The reason they aren't doing it is because there's no valid reason to.

 

[ja_user]

I heard someone pushing for rules requiring real time streaming of flight data to ground stations. The only thing holding the airlines back was they are too greed to spend the $100,000 per airplane. I'm sure it could be done for less, if the airlines flew experimentals and the equipment didn't have to be FAA certified. Imagine if there was a 400 passenger RV.

What sort of system do you suppose wouldn't have either
A. and off switch or breaker on the flight deck
B. be subject to the same failure that failed every other system onboard?

Let me guess, it will be like those "Well why are they allowed to turn transponders off" Questions we heard on the news in the early days of this event...

The answer is, because the system will fail many times more often than it is needed. So you have to be able to shut it down.

 

[Silvaire]

...Let me guess, it will be like those "Well why are they allowed to turn transponders off" Questions we heard on the news in the early days of this event...

That is too funny, can't trust the guy enough to let him have an ON/OFF switch on the transponder but we're gonna let him fly the airplane. :wink2:

 

[jspilot]

What ever happened to that brilliant saying of our founding fathers, "a government which governs least governs best." It's so typical to be reactionary and force changes when no such change is required. One airplane goes missing compared to all the others who have landed safely and of course the natural reaction by most of the mindless population and the heard in Washington DC is, "well we can't have that happen again so let's install some system that will cost money and have absolutely little benefit." It truly is remarkable how far we have faded from this countries founding principles.

 

[FastEddieB]

"Hard cases make bad law."

Legal maxim.

 

[Dav8or]

I don't want to seem insensitive but the loss of 269 people is hardly mass carnage and death.

But you can't help it. You were born that way.

Wow. You guys are a real compassionate group, but I guess a quick read of the Spin Zone would have already clued me in. The airlines lose your luggage and you demand to know where the hell it is! However, when the airlines lose your loved ones, well, hey, that's just the risk of air travel. No hard feelings. Find them if you can, if not it's understood. In fact, we know they're all dead, so why bother looking at all? We'll probably never find those black boxes, so we'll never actually know what happened, but does it even matter what happened?

You guys would be awesome airline PR people.-

"I know all you folks are concerned about the whereabouts of your loved ones and I'm here to tell you that we have no idea. We don't have any equipment to track our airplanes because it would cost too much and would probably just break down and fail like the rest of the plane probably did. You see, we know something really bad happened and your loved ones are dead. Knowing where they are, or why they died really doesn't matter, they're all still dead.

The good news is, all your loved ones saved 50 cents on their tickets because we wisely chose not to install complicated equipment. In addition, we'd like to point out, nearly all the flights before hand went just fine, we know where they went and we feel 90% confident that we will be able to keep track of future flights and get people safely to their destinations. Sometimes things just go wrong and we lose one. It is what it is. We will be issuing refunds and discounts on future flights."

I swear, pilots are so conservative and narrow minded it's astounding. I'm sure that while the Wright Brothers were installing the engine in their Wright Flyer, the ghost of Otto Lillienthal was standing there telling them what a bad idea it is to put an engine in a glider, how it is just too complicated, cost too much and all the ways it was destine for failure.

I may be in the minority here, but I doubt in the general populace I am. I maintain that it is 100% wholly unacceptable to lose an entire airliner full of people somewhere on the planet and have no idea what happened. All the whining about how much it would cost, how it'll never work, how it really doesn't matter and oppressive government regulations is bull crap.

 

[Silvaire]

...I maintain that it is 100% wholly unacceptable to lose an entire airliner full of people somewhere on the planet and have no idea what happened. All the whining about how much it would cost, how it'll never work, how it really doesn't matter and oppressive government regulations is bull crap.

Hold on here Dave, you seem to be of the mind that this sort of thing is going to be happening on a regular basis now. What makes you think it's ever going to happen again? There is not some sudden new threat in the universe that is causing airliners to disappear without a trace.

Try to contain your "outrage"

 

[3393RP]

Try to contain your "outrage"

It is a rather impressive rant.

 

[tinerj]

Please don't contain your outrage. Improvements only happen because you are putting the total stupidity of the airlines in a clear light.

If ten of the smartest men in the world would think for a year, they couldn't come up with something as stupid as some of the comments justifying the shear uncomprehensibility of airlines and FAA thinking for not having the instruments to tell what has happened to that flight as it happened.

Even hunting dogs can be tracked now, and it doesn't cost more than a good rifle.

 

[Silvaire]

Please don't contain your outrage. Improvements only happen because you are putting the total stupidity of the airlines in a clear light...

Please explain to the "stupid" among us how any of your proposed "improvements" would have altered the course of MH370's fate.

 

[Lindberg]

Dave, I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say that we're all very sorry for the loss of life on MH 370 and have a great deal of sympathy for the families of victims. But you must understand how dangerous it would be to govern based on anecdote and emotion. Imagine a world where a law was passed everytime someone lost a loved one. There'd certainly be no GA. It'd be banned along with guns, knives, cars, beer, swimming pools, bathtubs, etc., etc.

 

[jspilot]

Dave, I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say that we're all very sorry for the loss of life on MH 370 and have a great deal of sympathy for the families of victims. But you must understand how dangerous it would be to govern based on anecdote and emotion. Imagine a world where a law was passed everytime someone lost a loved one. There'd certainly be no GA. It'd be banned along with guns, knives, cars, beer, swimming pools, bathtubs, etc., etc.

Here here!

In this case it's completely unnesacary regulations! The plane crashed not because it did not have a homing device attached.

It's too bad lives were lossed and it is offensive to say that I or whoever else opposed a government regulation does not care about that. Of course I do. However, if governments consistently are allowed to regulate things to the level the general populace would like( under the assumption often that these regulations make the world better) than I worry that the joy of living erodes a little more each time.

 

[tinerj]

Please explain to the "stupid" among us how any of your proposed "improvements" would have altered the course of MH370's fate.

We would know what happened to the plane, where the plane went down and the families left in painful in uncertainty would have some relief.

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.

 

[kenjr]

The 737 I fly is only two rectal probes short of continuously transmitting just about every conceivable real-time parameter one can think of. The current air transportation is the safest transportation system the world has ever known…by a country mile. Maybe we should learn exactly what happened to 370 before we start legislating more pointless BS. I'll bet that during the week or so since 370 crashed more than 239 transportation related fatalities occurred involving modes other than airliners, but CNN doesn't have much to do.

Amen. The 24 hour news cycle continues to kick all of our collective asses.

Don't forget that whatever costs to do anything to airliners WILL get passed on to us...and they won't lower the prices back when they are done paying off whatever it cost to do the upgrades.

 

[Dav8or]

Dave, I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say that we're all very sorry for the loss of life on MH 370 and have a great deal of sympathy for the families of victims. But you must understand how dangerous it would be to govern based on anecdote and emotion. Imagine a world where a law was passed everytime someone lost a loved one. There'd certainly be no GA. It'd be banned along with guns, knives, cars, beer, swimming pools, bathtubs, etc., etc.

Seriously?!! All I'm asking for is the airlines to be able keep track of their airplanes with paying customers in them at all times. Why is that too much to ask for? I'm not asking for a magic safety blanket, or something.

So, what is so bad and evil about monitoring the progress of a commercial jet liner full of paying customers? What repercussions would there be from requiring commercial airlines to keep a tab on the paying lives in their charge for the duration of the flight, that would cause the downfall of aviation? Like I said before, they keep track of cargo in a trailer all over the country, but people in an airplane is too much to ask?

 

[Silvaire]

We would know what happened to the plane, where the plane went down and the families left in painful in uncertainty would have some relief...

First of all, nothing we do now is going to alter the situation with MH370. Secondly, what happened to MH370 has never happened before and it is most likely that it will never happen again so why are we hell bent on making new laws that are going to affect every commercial flight in perpetuity? Because it's not just the cost of installing the equipment or collecting the data there is also the maintenance/reliability aspect. If this new law is enacted what happens if the real time data streaming equipment fails? Does the flight get cancelled? Will it be required to divert if the system goes down en-route? It's just a big can of worms for no good reason, flying is safe and what happened to MH370 had noting to do with data streaming.

...Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.

 

[Dav8or]

Here here!

In this case it's completely unnesacary regulations! The plane crashed not because it did not have a homing device attached.

It's too bad lives were lossed and it is offensive to say that I or whoever else opposed a government regulation does not care about that. Of course I do. However, if governments consistently are allowed to regulate things to the level the general populace would like( under the assumption often that these regulations make the world better) than I worry that the joy of living erodes a little more each time.

What in the world are you afraid of? That we would actually know what happened and where the people are? You must love endless news cycles, speculation and mystery in your life? Please explain what you are afraid of. How would knowing where a commercial airliner is and how it is doing at all times be the end of western civilization?

 

[jspilot]

What in the world are you afraid of? That we would actually know what happened and where the people are? You must love endless news cycles, speculation and mystery in your life? Please explain what you are afraid of. How would knowing where a commercial airliner is and how it is doing at all times be the end of western civilization?

Endless regulations. That's what I'm afraid of. It's something to be very afraid of.

One airplane in countless flights takes off and does not land and is missing for a few days and the immediate reaction amoungst many is," we'll we can't allow that to happen again." That's what I'm afraid of. It's an absurd response when you consider how many airplanes takeoff and arrive safely each and everyday to now add in sweeping regulations that will require additional oversight. The mindset of many now living is very scary to me and the fear monguring amoungst the media needs to stop. If people can't see the absurdity in "response regulations," and where we are as a result then we all have a lot to be afraid of!

 

[denverpilot]

I may be in the minority here, but I doubt in the general populace I am. I maintain that it is 100% wholly unacceptable to lose an entire airliner full of people somewhere on the planet and have no idea what happened. All the whining about how much it would cost, how it'll never work, how it really doesn't matter and oppressive government regulations is bull crap.

I definitely hear whining.

Were you working on gathering money to donate to the airlines to fix this problem long before one airliner went missing, or is it just popular now that the unlikely happened?

I think we need an "Awareness" campaign. "Occupy Ocean!"