poadeleted20
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No matter how much you want it to be your way, your definition of the "due process" clause in the US Constitution doesn't match the US Supreme Court's.
Failed MEPS drug test 6 years ago, can i still be a commerical Pilot?
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poadeleted20
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It's easy to say something like that, but hard to help the person burned by taking such advice if the bureaucracy does function as designed. Choose wisely.As a federal employee, I have always counted on the incompetence of the federal system and rarely been disappointed.Bureaucracies lose things all of the time. I would ignore the honorable Mr. Lxxy and go flying. Come down to NC and I'll go flying with you. I find perfect people boring.
U
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What the OP need to do is find someone who knows how the MEPs drug screening and records REALLY work, and ask.
I wouldn't pay much mind to Ron, I believe he is talking out of his element and highly doubt he has worked at a MEPs station or ever conducted a drug screen.
Do some networking, find someone in the know and ask. My guess is its never going to come up and if that's the case, don't make trouble for yourself.
I wouldn't pay much mind to Ron, I believe he is talking out of his element and highly doubt he has worked at a MEPs station or ever conducted a drug screen.
Do some networking, find someone in the know and ask. My guess is its never going to come up and if that's the case, don't make trouble for yourself.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ron isn't talking out of his posterior. He brings up a potentially valid concern...an increasing concern in the digital age.
But, you do bring up a legitimate point. It all depends on a great unknown - what MEPS records are retained (digitally or otherwise) and what is the interface with other govt databases? That is the great unknown here. It is no secret that if you are ever under scrutiny from an incident or other issue, the FAA will likely find it.....if the record exists in cyber space. So, if the OP chooses to go that route, he needs to know how MEPS handles those records. If this happened 15-20 years ago, I wouldn't sweat it. You would be hard pressed finding the record even if you were specifically looking for it. Today, I'm not so sure.
Alexb2000
En-Route
Ron, why is it that your advice whenever these things come up is to do the honorable thing and eliminate yourself from this career field forever? I suppose that way they can work the fry station at McDonald with the honor of a Samurai.
The FAA is spending their energy in exactly the right place, requiring and insuring that active commercial pilots are randomly drug tested. This protects the public and gets to the hart of the matter vs. a bunch of hard to prove witch hunts from someones past.
Hypothetically, if someone accused you of being uptight, overly rigid, and obsessed with absolutism. I'm sure you would want to rebut vs. being forced to wear those labels for life. You know exactly what I meant by due process.
poadeleted20
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Because I swore a long time ago not to lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate among us those who do. I realize that honor, trust, and loyalty aren't universally popular ethical standards today, but I still don't care to share the airspace with those I can't trust to play by the rules, because it's too easy for them to kill me if they fly the way they act on the ground.
Alexb2000
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U
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So how does that work with a government that does all of the above?
U
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Well the gubment doesn't lie. They:
"responded in what I thought was the most truthful, or least untruthful, manner by saying 'no,'" ...... ODNI Clapper
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Velocity173
Amen. Traits that are slowly eroding in today's society.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Uh, yup. You don't know enough not to smoke dope, you are a dope. You belong on the ground.
dtuuiri
poadeleted20
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Dr. House is a fictional character created for the purpose of entertainment. This isn't fiction.
Alexb2000
En-Route
So let's see we have people claiming they have never done anything that anyone could construe as lying cheating or stealing.
Ever have a yard sale or sell a anything on craigslist and not send in the tax money?
Ever tell your wife, gf, so, that they looked good when they didn't?
Ever commit a sexual act before your 18th birthday (If not, I really feel bad)?
Ever look on another students paper during a test?
Ever speed and not turn yourself into the nearest precinct for your ticket?
Ever have a couple of drinks and drive home?
Ever take a tax deduction that you shouldn't have?
Ever tell your parents your were somewhere when you weren't?
Etc.
This self-righteousness is so over the top it makes me want to puke. We ALL make mistakes, tell lies, do wrong, we have to rectify them the best we can and strive to do better going forward. Nothing is served by a young person making a mistake and wearing the scarlet letter for life. No single act defines someone at the exclusion of their overall character, history, and general honesty. Next I'll hear about how many people here have never committed a sin either, but I guess that goes without saying.
Ever have a yard sale or sell a anything on craigslist and not send in the tax money?
Ever tell your wife, gf, so, that they looked good when they didn't?
Ever commit a sexual act before your 18th birthday (If not, I really feel bad)?
Ever look on another students paper during a test?
Ever speed and not turn yourself into the nearest precinct for your ticket?
Ever have a couple of drinks and drive home?
Ever take a tax deduction that you shouldn't have?
Ever tell your parents your were somewhere when you weren't?
Etc.
This self-righteousness is so over the top it makes me want to puke. We ALL make mistakes, tell lies, do wrong, we have to rectify them the best we can and strive to do better going forward. Nothing is served by a young person making a mistake and wearing the scarlet letter for life. No single act defines someone at the exclusion of their overall character, history, and general honesty. Next I'll hear about how many people here have never committed a sin either, but I guess that goes without saying.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Remember that the FAA operates on administrative law, which is significantly different than criminal law. If it is a criminal matter it gets referred to DoJ. And in today's digital world, once it gets in a database, it never gets out.
The other thing to remember is that today's world is increasingly "one strike, you're out". Some of that is fear and paranoia, but some is driven by legal concerns. The number of employers that conduct background checks is huge and increasing. Even if you want to drive for Uber.
The other thing to remember is that today's world is increasingly "one strike, you're out". Some of that is fear and paranoia, but some is driven by legal concerns. The number of employers that conduct background checks is huge and increasing. Even if you want to drive for Uber.
poadeleted20
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We're talking here about certifying upon penalty of law to the truth of a statement made to the FAA, not any of the things Alex listed. I know where I stand about honesty in that situation. I think I know now where Alex stands.
-30-
Alexb2000
En-Route
You brought up the oath and it had nothing to do with the FAA or rule of law.
dtuuri
Final Approach
I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. We've got a wide receiver, Josh Gordon, who led the NFL last year, but has been busted for smoking dope, twice. And speeding, with a passenger who had dope on him. I say throw his butt out of the NFL! And all the rest too! You excuse-makers are what's nauseating. Of course, I suspect these are "your" kids. Chips off the 'ol block, so no wonder you have such compassion for them--they learned right from wrong from you and your's.
But don't get me wrong, I don't really care anymore. At 66, I get a bit of a chuckle out of my own generation's wayward, pot-smoking, war-protesting, campus-wrecking spoiled brats' tribulations bringing up their own offspring and saying, "Do what I say, not what I did." Just keep their li'l footstep-following buggers out of the national airspace.
dtuuri
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Alexb2000
En-Route
From what the OP described this is a world away from Josh Gordon's chronic problems. Since you brought it up, I believe Josh Gordon needs some help, fast. He is obviously self-destructive and has a lot of baggage. Wanting to help him is not the same has wanting to flush a human being down the toilet of life. If that fails then the NFL may have no choice, but once again that situation is night and day different than what we are talking about.
Yup, I know that generation well. The "good" people crawled inside a bottle the second they hit the front door (those 2 Martini lunches were wearing off), kicked Saturday morning off with a couple of Bloody Mary's, and watched the Sunday ball game with a never ending drink in their hands (after church of course). They never once smoked pot though, so I guess they are welcome in your airspace.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Well your sure sharing airspace with them so you'd better quit flying.
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Velocity173
To be clear to the OP, I don't presume to think I'm better than you simply because I didn't have to lie on a MEPS test or for that matter, any FAA application. I've made mistakes. Heck if it wasn't for a judge throwing out a speeding ticket, I might never have gotten picked up in Army Aviation. Fortunately, I haven't made mistakes that are disqualifying but If I did, I'd be honest and own up to them.
Personally, I have no problem with you smoking MJ once in your life and if I was a hiring manager, I would weigh all qualifications and not just one transgression. The problem is, it's not what I or anyone else on this forum thinks. You're at the mercy of those that create the rules and those that hire pilots.
Personally, I have no problem with you smoking MJ once in your life and if I was a hiring manager, I would weigh all qualifications and not just one transgression. The problem is, it's not what I or anyone else on this forum thinks. You're at the mercy of those that create the rules and those that hire pilots.
Morgan3820
En-Route
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
"Cap'n" ron is a righteous fellow! As H.L. Mencken said, this type always worried him.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Who really believes the OP? He says he had "...a few puffs of a joint" a month before MEPS, but failed the test. He "...chose to smoke weed for the first time," he says. Six years ago, though, I doubt if their testing was that sensitive. I don't believe him.
But, if he speaks the truth, then he should write to the pot-loving governors of Colorado and Washington and ask them for career advice for possible employment within their states' flight departments. It would be interesting if he'd post their responses here.
If a pilot (the OP was one when he smoked) is undisciplined enough to give in to peer pressure to engage in an illegal, unhealthy, career-destroying moment of self-indulgence, is he going to have the discipline to miss an approach at minimums when the runway isn't in sight if he knows the airplane ahead of him managed to land? Or does he figure he can bust minimums too, like when he smoked dope?
dtuuri
Morgan3820
En-Route
I cheated on my Inorganic Chemistry final. I felt bad, but needed it to graduate. I actually think that the professor enabled my cheating. Good thing there is nothing on any government forms about cheating on school exams, or both of use could not be airplane pilots, or even instructors of aviation at community colleges in middle of nowhere Chicken Peninsula.
azure
Final Approach
Shame on your professor if he did.
On some campuses cheating is so rampant that we take pictures of the class during final exam and compare against official student photos. I have allowed student athletes to take exams on the road, proctored by their coach or another (putatively) responsible adult, but getting three identical exams turned in after the last road trip cured me of that practice. Yes, sometimes adults do enable cheating. 
That said, until someone shows me evidence that cheating on an exam correlates with wanton disregard for safety, I don't have any problem sharing the sky with you. If she wanted to learn to fly, Martha Stewart would be welcome in my airspace too. So would Diane Hathaway. Heck, Kwame Kilpatrick for that matter. Virtually everyone practices situational ethics to some degree. The question is to what degree, and whether the corner cutting extends to situations where life, limb, and property are at stake.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Sorry you felt bad. Here, have a tissue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFy0x_Uixo&feature=kp
So, do you think saying that during an airline interview would land you a cockpit job? I bet all those employment tests they make you take are designed to ferret out those inclined to cheat, among other undesireable characteristics, so I doubt you could make it to an interview anyway.
Just curious how you reacted when you read about Air Force personnel cheating on their nuclear preparedness tests? Was that ok with you?
dtuuri
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dtuuri
Final Approach
poadeleted21
Touchdown! Greaser!
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I believe him. I have no reason not to. I'd hire someone who's smoked a few J's in their day over one who makes baseless accusations by calling people liars.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Hey, there ya go! Why don't you start an airline and hire the OP? I'd like to see how things work out for ya.
dtuuri
poadeleted21
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He's said nothing that would disqualify him.
Though the people accusing him of lying would be DQed. Wouldn't have those types under me. They just cause problems because of their own self righteousness.
azure
Final Approach
Until now it's been common practice at my university. Sports brings in the big bucks, ergo we are REQUIRED to accommodate them. Not my first choice, believe me.
dtuuri
Final Approach
Did I say he was lying? Is not believing him the same?
Here's why I don't believe him:
"As it happens, urinalysis is particularly sensitive to marijuana, a single use of which can register positive for as long as a week, long after any effects have vanished; heavy users may register positive for as long as 4-6 weeks."
The OP said only "a few puffs" a whole month before MEPS.It doesn't matter, I wouldn't work for you anyway.
dtuuri
poadeleted21
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Did I say he was lying? Is not believing him the same?
Here's why I don't believe him:
"As it happens, urinalysis is particularly sensitive to marijuana, a single use of which can register positive for as long as a week, long after any effects have vanished; heavy users may register positive for as long as 4-6 weeks."The OP said only "a few puffs" a whole month before MEPS.
It doesn't matter, I wouldn't work for you anyway.
dtuuri
No, you wouldn't.
Morgan3820
En-Route
I thought that they probably played the game to long, got sloppy, talked too much. But I was never worried about any thing being launched inadvertently.
Btw, I made up the whole cheating thing. Like you and 'The Ron', I have lived a life of moral perfection, comfortably ensconced in a cocoon of moral narcissism. I am sometimes lonely, people do not want to hang out with me because they know that they fall short in my eyes, but I take comfort knowing that I am doing the right thing
dtuuri
Final Approach
First of all, unless things have changed dramatically in the past few years, you don't usually get rewarded with a nice cushy airline job as soon as you log 1500 hours. At least not with a respectable airline.
Instead, you'll more than likely pull yourself up the ladder by instructing first then, if you've networked well, you'll land a spot with a corporation (as a copilot) or with an air taxi (as a copilot) where you'll demonstrate your commitment and aptitude for this career field for a number of years. It isn't a climb for the impatient.
All along the way, you'll compete for openings with others who have more time, or more charm or military training or had more luck. If you're a dope smoker, you won't get far. The military has a 'zero tolerance' policy and those are the guys who are competing with you. If you get far enough up the ladder, then your past won't be as significant as your demonstrated performance and perseverance.
By then, though, you may not want an airline job after all. Your business training may influence your career preferences in ways you might not appreciate right now: Aircraft sales, FBO management, flight department manager, training center management, etc. In fact, I'd wager that it does. Your earning potential can be much higher, much sooner if you make full use of that degree.
But... don't blow smoke and expect much forgiveness in aviation. Most professional pilots don't even touch tobacco. They're health conscious, they exercise, eat right and behave like they're just one failed medical from total unemployment. And they're honest. At least, the ones I know at the top of the ladder are that way.
dtuuri
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retailguy
Line Up and Wait
This thread is hilarious.