FAA opens applications for 1400 controllers

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by denverpilot, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    From their press release... (No, I didn't write the headline as a joke...)
    -----
    FAA Offers Dream Job Opportunity
    July 6- The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced today that it will be accepting applications from candidates for entry-level air traffic controller positions starting tomorrow, from July 7-14, 2017.


    The job vacancy announcement for the highly competitive position of Air Traffic Control Specialist (Trainee) will be available on the federal government’s official job site, USAJOBS.gov. This announcement is expected to be open for seven days, and the agency is projecting to fill 1,400 positions. If you are interested in applying, log on to USAJOBS and apply prior to the closing date of the vacancy announcement. All applicants must meet minimum qualifications and other eligibility requirements.


    Applicants will be separated into two pools of candidates. Pool 1 will include graduates of an institution participating in the Collegiate Training Initiative program who provide an appropriate recommendation, as well as eligible veterans. Individuals who qualify for Pool 1 are not required to take a biographical assessment. Pool 2 includes the general public.


    Air Traffic Control Specialists are responsible for the safe, orderly, and expeditious movement of air traffic through the nation's airspace. Trainees spend their first several months of employment in an intensive training program at the FAA Academy located in Oklahoma City, OK, and continue their training once they are placed at a facility.Developmental controllers receive a wide range of training in controlling and separating live air traffic within designated airspace at and around an air traffic control tower or radar approach control facility, or an air route traffic control center.
     
  2. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,187
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    Well, I like how they went back to separating the CTI and military vets from the rest. They should have preference.

    31 year old age limit for the general public though. Gonna keep a lot of prospective applicants out. Don't think they'll have problems filling school slots though.
     
    Radar Contact likes this.
  3. TCABM

    TCABM Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    600
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    TCABM
    Did someone forget to tell the FAA that ATC is going to be privatized?
     
    Norman and Velocity173 like this.
  4. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,633
    Location:
    A Rubber Room
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cli4ord
    Age 30 is the age cut off.
     
  5. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,187
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
  6. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,940
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Is there such a thing as ear bleach? I think I need some.
     
  8. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,940
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    I have my ears waxed. I don't like ear hair regardless of the color.
     
  9. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    10,531
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spun Out
    Agreed

    I think the 30 year limit is too low, but I do agree there needs to be a limit. I am sure I could have handled the job when I was younger, but I have no illusions that I could do so today (at 65). I could have probably handled the job into my low '50s, but it would be a waste to train someone for that job that could only hold it for a few years. It is a stressful job and you don't want controllers having heart attacks in the middle of an emergency after rotating 12 hour shifts.

    I don't think controllers get enough respect.
     
  10. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,187
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    When I was in Army flight school we were told that they used the 30 yr old cutoff because around 50, we generally begin to develop grounding conditions and our performance starts to deteriorate. That 20 yr service would allow someone to retire from the Army before medical conditions began to develop. Not sure if the FAA uses the same logic.

    Canada did a study years ago on the aging process in ATC. They determined that while the older controllers in their 50s had a reduction in cognitive speed, their experience allowed them shortcuts to overcome the mental problem solving. Basically any advantage the junior controller had over them was made up for because of wisdom.

    My brother used to work at a contract tower where they don't have the 56 yr old limit that the FAA has. He observed some of the older ones that really couldn't keep up with the load anymore and should retire. They stay on either because they still needed the money or they still loved the work. Don't get me wrong, there are those that can do the job into their 60s, maybe even 70s but at some point they need to decide when to hang it up. Just like for those of us that fly professionally, the key is knowing when you've gotten to the point where it's become a safety issue. Hard to make that decision but we'll all get there at some point.
     
  11. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    I have a recurring nightmare where I am being forced to be a controller....:hairraise:
     
  12. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,711
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dmspilot
    The reason for the age cutoff is the pension controllers get.
     
  13. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,681
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Stingray Don
    Why that is blatant age discrimination! How can they get away with that?! Age is a protected class by law!

    Oh wait, it's the government and they exempt themselves from the very laws they create. Never mind.
     
    paflyer and Skyrys62 like this.
  14. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    That would be backward. You'd WANT older controller who dropped dead quickly if you were making sure folks didn't have enough time in service to receive a pension.
     
  15. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,711
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dmspilot
    No that's not what I was talking about. They are eligible for retirement at 50 and mandatory at 56. They don't want to hire people so close to retirement.

    I'm not sure why I said pension, I should have said early retirement.
     
  16. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    Aaaand as expected, the silly gummint immediately excluded a big pool of people who are much more likely to pass the aptitude test (with a crypto-name of "Biographical Assessment") than all the clueless life-inexperienced and troubled teenagers coming out of high-schools. *rolleyes*
     
  17. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,711
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dmspilot
    CTI grad, or three years of full-time work experience, or a college degree, or PPL+Instrument, or PPL+350 hours ... the number of teenagers coming out of high school that meet at least one of the requirements is close to zero. However, I still agree with the spirit of your post.
     
  18. Harold Rutila

    Harold Rutila Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Harold Rutila
    Are there no clueless life-inexperienced over-31-year-olds?
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  19. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,745
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    Yes there are. They are called Democrats if they can't afford to be Republicans.
     
    BigBadLou likes this.
  20. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Watching either cult twist and squirm when their ideals fail miserably in the real world, is always entertaining.
     
  21. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,505
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    I've yet to see an FAA controller that works 12 hour shifts. I got an age waiver from the DoD that protects me from the 31 and 56 age limits. As long as I can pass the Class II physical I'm good to go. No, I'm not over the 56 year limit...yet. I will say that the wash out percentage has increased drastically in the field (after the basic school house training) than from when I started controlling in '92. Too many Nintendo kids out there that think you can just hit re-set after you kill someone. I'm going to give it another 4 or 5 years and I'm done.
     
    Velocity173 likes this.
  22. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    I like your political discrimination ... it is so nicely bi-partisan! :D

    I don't think the FAA is left or right so let's keep this apolitical, please.

    My point exactly. The FAA's target audience for this hiring are kids with no life experience (I know I had none when I got out of highschool!) and they wonder why they can't pass the basic aptitude test.
    I wonder how long until Gleim publishes a thick red book with just the right answers to get homicidal kids to pass the test with flying colors and man control towers. :D
     
  23. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,745
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    It was carefully crafted to blast the largest political parties we have.
     
  24. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,187
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    Lol! My brother's not big on the "Nintendo kids" coming in. He's always complaining about the new crop of students that he trains. They show up late. Take too long for lunch. Look like a bum. Almost kill a pilot one minute, then joking around off position another. On their phones when they should be studying the .65. None are pilots and have very little understanding of aircraft types / performance characteristics. Take years to be facility rated, etc, etc.

    He actually can't wait until mandatory retirement and was thinking about retiring when he first becomes eligible.
     
  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Gleim has had that book for a long time.

    The initial written just gets you maybe an initial interview, there's a few years of stuff AFTER that which can wash a new controller out.

    Tim can speak to it firsthand, but controllers aren't considered "full" controllers for quite some time after the academy and lots of direct mentorship.

    The written just shows whether or not someone has some spatial awareness aptitude and can answer some sorts of basic questions. It won't help them memorize their airspace, etc.
     
  26. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,378
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    Is there a dress code for controllers or can you guys just show up in a t shirt and shorts?
     
  27. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,711
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dmspilot
    There is no dress code according to a current ZDC employee.
     
    jordane93 likes this.
  28. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,866
    Location:
    PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PAFlyer
    Don't worry. ADS-B will solve it.
     
  29. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    @jordane93 aren't you jealous of their world where polyester doesn't exist? ;)
     
  30. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    Are we talking about the same test, though?
    I was commenting on the FAA's "Biographical Assessment" which is supposedly brand new. Or is that possibly misinformation?
    (I am not doubting you, I am honestly asking - where is the honest smiley when you need one, dangit?? :) )
     
  31. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,378
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jordan
    I am! It sounds awesome.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  32. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,505
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    I can and I'm talking about "full" controllers and sadly at that. There is no sense of pride in their work, they don't go out of their way to look up things in the .65 or bone up on the changes therein.

    As far as dress code, it used to be business casual or Dockers and a polo or button down. Now I wear jeans and a polo or button down. On the weekends I wear shorts and a tee shirt.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  33. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    So honest question... would it be possible to make the job competitive?

    Some only respond to external motivators and don't self-motivate.
     
  34. Harold Rutila

    Harold Rutila Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Harold Rutila
    It's been around since 2014. There is no Gleim book for that or for the AT-SA, the aptitude test.
     
  35. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    47,682
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    I guess they changed things. Sorry. There was a book for a long time. Last time I checked was 15 years ago. LOL.
     
  36. Harold Rutila

    Harold Rutila Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Harold Rutila
    Yes, actually that is correct. There were a lot of vendors making them for the AT-SAT back when that was the test in use.
     
  37. Wrench978

    Wrench978 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    NH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Wrench978
    I was in the first bid that took the new AT-SA. All I kept hearing was that there was no way to study for it. For the most part, I would agree, although it would have been nice to practice some of the games that were part of the test. That being said, there was a lot of reactionary type exercises, and a lot of logic exercises. Im not sure how much you can practice logic.
     
  38. BigBadLou

    BigBadLou En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    TX - the friendliest state
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lou
    There is no way to study for an aptitude test. It is supposed to reveal your aptitude, it is an assessment process.
    Just like going to a doctor to see what your health is like. It is not a health test, it is an assessment. Can't study for that either. :)

    But again, with the low 10% passing rate, I wonder whether it reflects the condition of the applicant pool or whether the assessment procedure might have some flaws. (I do not have a dog in this fight so I am truly wondering about the source of the passing rate)
     
  39. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,187
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    I've bought study books for several military aptitude tests and they worked. If you haven't been engaged in the testing categories in your personal life on a regular basis, you tend to flush some of that knowledge. Plus, just having to go through the practice tests and time yourself, provides feedback on what to improve upon.

    Now, the biographical history at the end, there's nothing to study for. You played quarterback for your high school, read 10 books a month, volunteer at the homeless shelter on weekends and captain of the debate team. ;)
     
  40. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,745
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    Logic is actually a branch of mathematics. Some people practice it daily. I rejected it when required to prove the existence of zero and my response was not accepted. My response was: give me all your money....now you know that zero exists 'cause ya got zero money.