FAA enforcement Air Venture Week

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Clip4

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On a recent flight I heard controllers kinda complaining about air venture week. Has any one heard of anyone getting an enforcement action from the FAA during that week or is it basically see no evil head no evil?
 
Our local DPE says there are so many thousands of violations that week with people coming and going to OSH that the FAA just shrugs, and may only pursue the most grievous.
 
Tokirbymd said:
Our local DPE says there are so many thousands of violations that week with people coming and going to OSH that the FAA just shrugs, and may only pursue the most grievous.
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396K views · 16K reactions | PSA: Understand the NOTAM (Notice) before you takeoff for Oshkosh. @pinkshirts_of_osh showing great patience and assistance to an unprepared/lost pilot trying to get to #AirVenture. The professionalism and dedication to

PSA: Understand the NOTAM (Notice) before you takeoff for Oshkosh. @pinkshirts_of_osh showing great patience and assistance to an unprepared/lost pilot trying to get to #AirVenture. The...
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172 Takes Off From Oshkosh Taxiway In Wrong Direction

Pilot had also had trouble landing earlier in the week.
avweb.com avweb.com
 
FWIW- the Milwaukee FSDO basically relocates to OSH for about 2 weeks. They investigate every incident they are made aware of. They follow the standard procedures (see AC 2150.3C for details) which allow inspectors to apply the compliance philosophy to dealing with such issues. So counseling, training, etc., are preferred over certificate actions. I can assure you they do stay busy that week.
 
donjohnston said:
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396K views · 16K reactions | PSA: Understand the NOTAM (Notice) before you takeoff for Oshkosh. @pinkshirts_of_osh showing great patience and assistance to an unprepared/lost pilot trying to get to #AirVenture. The professionalism and dedication to

PSA: Understand the NOTAM (Notice) before you takeoff for Oshkosh. @pinkshirts_of_osh showing great patience and assistance to an unprepared/lost pilot trying to get to #AirVenture. The...
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172 Takes Off From Oshkosh Taxiway In Wrong Direction

Pilot had also had trouble landing earlier in the week.
avweb.com avweb.com
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ATP. AGI. CFI. Control Tower operator....
 
Clip4 said:
On a recent flight I heard controllers kinda complaining about air venture week. Has any one heard of anyone getting an enforcement action from the FAA during that week or is it basically see no evil head no evil?
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No one gets an "enforcement action". It starts with a pilot deviation, and if ATC reports it, then the FAA FSDO will investigate. As long as the airman is cooperative, it cannot be taken to an enforcement, unless it was intentional and even then there are parameters.

I seriously doubt the ATC there has the time to document every perceived deviation.
 
N 4301R
Wow. It's getting worse. Another reason to never share the airspace wtih a dud(e) like that. Appears neurocognitively limited. Needs a recommendation for a neurocognitive eval.... sigh.

Even worse, he's a radio hog. Incapacitated the whole conga line. He impacted EVERYONE else.
 
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bbchien said:
N 4301R
Wow. It's getting worse. Another reason to never share the airspace wtih a dud(e) like that. Appears neurocognitively limited. Needs a recommendation for a neurocognitive eval.... sigh.

Even worse, he's a radio hog. Incapacitated the whole conga line. He impacted EVERYONE else.
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As someone with lots of family in their late 70s/early 80s, that ATC recording sounded all too familiar. If the owner was indeed the pilot in question, I suspect they will be asking for his 2nd class medical back. Sad...he also just got his Master Pilot award from the FAA for 50 years of safe flying.
 
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Brad Z said:
As someone with lots of family in their latest 70s/early 80s, that ATC recording sounded all too familiar. If the owner was indeed the pilot in question, I suspect they will be asking for his 2nd class medical back. Sad...he also just got his Master Pilot award from the FAA for 50 years of safe flying.
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Given a 2nd class is annual, Is cognitive decline that quick? Or did his AME possibly miss an issue?
 
bbchien said:
It can be subtle...and only apparent when the pilot gets "loaded up and task saturated" which he was.
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That...and you can have good days and bad days. On a good day no one is the wiser. On a bad day n not so much...
 
He'll get a demand for a cogscreen....
It's sad, most pilots know when they are done and act accordingly. GREAT work by the ATO team, he was NOT ABOUT to go away and inserting him (though a risk) got him out of the air QUICKLY.

Today I broke off an approach (in filed IFR, scattered everywhere in the hot) inbound ot WATSU at 1,700. P28A was cruising N to S through GYY's airspace at 1700 not talking to anyone (? leaving OSH?). Great work by the tower controller on IFR/VFR sep. Concise & Terse description made it completely clear that the ONLY useful behavior was a climb. Saw him just when my safety pilot saw him, too.....I coulda read his N Number...too darned close.

I think I'll add "no IFR practice while OSH is in session" to my list, too.
 
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masloki said:
Given a 2nd class is annual, Is cognitive decline that quick? Or did his AME possibly miss an issue?
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A friend of mine (not a pilot) first started noticing his own cognitive decline. I saw him two or three times a week and I started noticing it a few weeks before he did. He couldn't recall words when speaking.

eg:
him: "We went out to uh, what's it called? A big body of inland water?"
Me: "do you mean a lake?",
him: yes. Went out to the lake.

It got worse quickly. His doctor demanded he not drive any more. To cut to the chase, he needed to be put in a facility that could take care of him. He stopped eating out of depression and was dead within a year of diagnosis. He was 14 days older than I am.

If he had gotten an exam 3 months prior to onset of his symptoms, his doc would probably have missed it. If he was a pilot, well, never mind. I feel sorry for that 172 pilot that everyone is making fun of. I hope he gets the help he needs now.
 
masloki said:
Given a 2nd class is annual, Is cognitive decline that quick? Or did his AME possibly miss an issue?
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Cognitive decline is quicker than you might realize and evaluation of the cognitive isn’t part of the medical exam.
 
It sounds like he almost came to the right conclusion while flying in.
Time to hang it up, if the FAA doesn't enforce that outcome anyways.
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As a physician and surgeon this is one of my greatest fears- to not be aware of my shortcomings. I hope that my peers, both flying and operating notify me before I get to this point.
 
Doc Holliday said:
No one gets an "enforcement action". It starts with a pilot deviation, and if ATC reports it, then the FAA FSDO will investigate. As long as the airman is cooperative, it cannot be taken to an enforcement, unless it was intentional and even then there are parameters.

I seriously doubt the ATC there has the time to document every perceived deviation.
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Really?
 
Tokirbymd said:
As a physician and surgeon this is one of my greatest fears- to not be aware of my shortcomings. I hope that my peers, both flying and operating notify me before I get to this point.
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This!
Sometimes, if progress is slow it works to narrow one's scope of operations....I had an ATP rated guy that I insisted that I give his BFR as a conditon to support his 5 SIs. It was the worst "legal" ILS I had ever seen. I actually got nauseated. It was a conforming ILS, however.

We landed and had Diet Cokes. "Jerry", I sez, "that was the worst ILS I've ever endured". He replied "I haven't done one in 4 years". He had narrowed his scope of operations. We got him recertified.

...and for this year I sigh a breath of relief again, and say, "Thank you J_sus, it's over again till next year".
 
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Good physicians see between the lines. Walking into the room you are noticing skin color, eye brightness, whether the neck veins are engorged, respiratory rate, hand shake, hand warnth and strength, tremor, so many things. Asking polite questions not so much for the answer, but how the question is answered. What did you think of that news event last week? We watch the most mundane, but complex of tasks like walking into and out of the room. All that before, you even put a stethoscope on them. Loss of cognition is pretty easy to notice. Most physician’s knew the last President was checked out. Pretty sure even the White House physicians. But that’s a different story.
 
bbchien said:
Well, it is. But the tools are crude. You might not be aware but we are doing it.
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I suspected that’s what the AME was doing last time I had a flight physical. Out of the blue he asked my thoughts on the political situation. I gave my standard non-answer - I dislike politics and never discuss it with anyone who I’m not close with - and he moved on. Couldn’t tell for sure if he was just being Florida, or if it was a check of my temperament and cognition.
 
Rockymountain said:
Good physicians see between the lines. Walking into the room you are noticing skin color, eye brightness, whether the neck veins are engorged, respiratory rate, hand shake, hand warnth and strength, tremor, so many things. Asking polite questions not so much for the answer, but how the question is answered. What did you think of that news event last week? We watch the most mundane, but complex of tasks like walking into and out of the room. All that before, you even put a stethoscope on them. Loss of cognition is pretty easy to notice. Most physician’s knew the last President was checked out. Pretty sure even the White House physicians. But that’s a different story.
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True. Equally, most physicians can spot narcissistic personality disorder in profound cases.
 
Doc Holliday said:
No one gets an "enforcement action". It starts with a pilot deviation, and if ATC reports it, then the FAA FSDO will investigate. As long as the airman is cooperative, it cannot be taken to an enforcement, unless it was intentional and even then there are parameters.

I seriously doubt the ATC there has the time to document every perceived deviation.
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Are there documents that prevent enforcement? Talk about an incentive to be forthright when everyone seems to think the FAA is only out to get people. I would like to learn more about it. Quite frankly, I'm not even familiar with procedure for an investigation.
 
There is no way to prevent the medical investigation that is coming at this guy.
The route for this is not an operational violation as he was cooperative throughout and obviously incapable.

If he files in the next day, a NASA report properly, he may skate on the ATO problem he created. But they (Medical branch) will create a letter to the effect of "your incident at OSH forms a reaonable basis for investigation of your medical capabilty to exercise your privileges as Pilot in Command"...and then go on to demand a neurocognitive in 90 days. IMO, just from the transcript, it's over game set & match. "...OMG, find a large lake an addition five miles west of RIPON? Can't do that?" CLIMB, and look at a chart.....or don't climb and fly away!

Cloud deck too low? Land, like the man said, it's a VFR approach. Man they gave you an out. You didn't take it.
 
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If that’s the case though, did nobody talk to him while he was on the ground at OSH? Figured maybe someone would go over departures procedures with him REAL CAREFULLY…
 
Doc Holliday said:
No one gets an "enforcement action". It starts with a pilot deviation, and if ATC reports it, then the FAA FSDO will investigate. As long as the airman is cooperative, it cannot be taken to an enforcement, unless it was intentional and even then there are parameters.
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Who decides it was intentional? Who decides if the airman is cooperative?

Your attitude would be funny if it weren't so disturbing - and misleading.
 
bbchien said:
There is no way to prevent the medical investigation that is coming at this guy
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To do so is entirely in the public interest, IMHO. There may be people on here who may say the FAA should stay out of this pilot’s cognitive decline and OSH should be a “guilt-free zone” but I think reasonable people would see this as why we have standards to protect the public, difficult as they may be to articulate fairly sometimes.
 
The arrival I can see being overlooked for whatever reasons. The departure not.
 
Salty said:
Who decides it was intentional? Who decides if the airman is cooperative?

Your attitude would be funny if it weren't so disturbing - and misleading.
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iu
 
Salty said:
Who decides it was intentional? Who decides if the airman is cooperative?

Your attitude would be funny if it weren't so disturbing - and misleading.
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Admitting to nothing, denying every thing, demanding proof or lying might be a factor.

It’s difficult to convert an enforcement into a learning experience when the violator won’t accept responsibility.
 
Clip4 said:
Admitting to nothing, denying every thing, demanding proof or lying might be a factor.

It’s difficult to convert an enforcement into a learning experience when the violator won’t accept responsibility.
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Sure, but that isn't even close to what he said.
 
Salty said:
Sure, but that isn't even close to what he said.
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Sure, the next time a cop pulls you over for a headlight out, tell him you not was the light working, you weren’t even driving and see if you get a warning.
 
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