FAA Civil Aviation Registry Question

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
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Display name:
Kimberly
So another pilot and myself were talking about this.

I did a search on the FAA for a pilot.

More results came up than I expected.

I went through each one, and this came up . . . can anyone explain why you would be limited to planes that don't spin? I have not seen this before in the database.


FAA Registry

Name Inquiry Results

Address
Address is not available

Medical
No Medical Available

Certificates
1 of 1

DOI:
7/31/1950

Certificate:
PRIVATE PILOT

Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND

Limits


AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND - LIMITED TO NONSPINNABLE.
 
Kimberly, it's probably because that pilot took their test in
a plane like an Ercoupe which cannot be spun.
 
When did the FAA stop requiring spin training for a private pilot certificate? I know it was quite a long time ago, but if it was after 1950, perhaps that would explain it.
 
dmspilot said:
When did the FAA stop requiring spin training for a private pilot certificate? I know it was quite a long time ago, but if it was after 1950, perhaps that would explain it.
Click to expand...
The spin requirement was dropped beginning in 1949, which wouldn't quite expain that limitation if the license was issued in '50....unless some examiner wasn't quite with the times...if it can happen today, I suppose it could have happened back then.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The spin requirement was dropped beginning in 1949, which wouldn't quite expain that limitation if the license was issued in '50....unless some examiner wasn't quite with the times...if it can happen today, I suppose it could have happened back then.
Click to expand...

The "issue date" could be the date that he / she changed an address or something like that.

The DOI listed for my certificate is 2007 but I got my Private Pilot back in the '70s.
 
First, just because the DOI os 1950 doesn't mean that's when the pilot took the test. You get a new DOI each time they print you a new ticket, even for a change of address or whatever. That's how the FAA can tell that the ticket you present is the one which is valid. It also keeps you from handing in one for suspension/revocation while keeping another to continue using.

Other than that, the Ercoupe guess is probably correct. FAA Order 8900.1 still today contains a limitation to be put on your certificate if you take the practical test in a 'Coupe with no rudder pedals.
 
Ron Levy said:
First, just because the DOI os 1950 doesn't mean that's when the pilot took the test. You get a new DOI each time they print you a new ticket, even for a change of address or whatever. That's how the FAA can tell that the ticket you present is the one which is valid. It also keeps you from handing in one for suspension/revocation while keeping another to continue using.

Other than that, the Ercoupe guess is probably correct. FAA Order 8900.1 still today contains a limitation to be put on your certificate if you take the practical test in a 'Coupe with no rudder pedals.
Click to expand...


Wow, good to know. No rudder pedals.
 
I can't for the life of me imagine flying a plane with no rudder pedals. How do you land in a crosswind without side loading your landing gear?
 
dell30rb said:
I can't for the life of me imagine flying a plane with no rudder pedals. How do you land in a crosswind without side loading your landing gear?
Click to expand...

you just land in a crab. the plane then straightens out. i landed the 'coupe in some pretty good xwinds on a 24 ft wide strip with no issues. has to be about the most fun you can have with tricycle gear and an engine.
 
dell30rb said:
I can't for the life of me imagine flying a plane with no rudder pedals. How do you land in a crosswind without side loading your landing gear?
Click to expand...
You don't. The gear is designed to take the side loading, so you land in a crab.

Or you can use Howard "Eye of the Examiner" Fried's method and just roll down the window and stick your arm and shoulder out to provide drag on that side to act like a rudder while holding the other wing down. Of course, that method has its limitations when the wind is from the left side, and you ask your passenger to do that, and your passenger says :yikes:

BTW, from FAA Order 8900.1:
D.The person is using a Ercoupe 415B for a private pilot certificate for an airplane single engine land rating. This airplane does not have published stall speeds and cannot perform the stall or spin task. Specific guidance on the limitations to place on the applicant’s private pilot certificate, is as follows:

· Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land-Limited to Ercoupe 415

NOTE: When the applicant completes a private pilot practical test in a single engine airplane that has published stall speeds and stalling capabilities, the limitation may be removed.
Click to expand...
 
steingar said:
They didn't try hard enough.
Click to expand...
Here's the current rule on that, and CAR 3 (which takes a lot longer to research) was pretty much the same:
(2) At the applicant's option, the airplane may be demonstrated to be spin resistant by the following:
(i) During the stall maneuvers contained in Sec. 23.201, the pitch control must be pulled back and held against the stop. Then, using ailerons and rudders in the proper direction, it must be possible to maintain wings-level flight within 15 degrees of bank and to roll the airplane from a 30 degree bank in one direction to a 30 degree bank in the other direction;
(ii) Reduce the airplane speed using pitch control at a rate of approximately 1 knot per second until the pitch control reaches the stop; then, with the pitch control pulled back and held against the stop, apply full rudder control in a manner to promote spin entry for a period of 7 seconds or through a 360 degree heading change, whichever occurs first. If the 360 degree heading change is reached first, it must have taken no fewer than 4 seconds. This maneuver must be performed first with the ailerons in the neutral position, and then with the ailerons deflected opposite the direction of turn in the most adverse manner. Power and airplane configuration must be set in accordance with Sec. 23.201(e) without change during the maneuver. At the end of 7 seconds or a 360 degree heading change, the airplane must respond immediately and normally to primary flight controls applied to regain coordinated, unstalled flight without reversal of control effect and without exceeding the temporary control forces specified by Sec. 23.143(c); and
(iii) Compliance with Secs. 23.201 and 23.203 must be demonstrated with the airplane in uncoordinated flight, corresponding to one ball width displacement on a slip-skid indicator, unless one ball width displacement cannot be obtained with full rudder, in which case the demonstration must be with full rudder applied.
Click to expand...
If that's not trying hard enough, I don't know what is short of a deliberate truly aerobatic maneuver which is prohibited in this plane.
 
dell30rb said:
I can't for the life of me imagine flying a plane with no rudder pedals. How do you land in a crosswind without side loading your landing gear?
Click to expand...

Want to see some serious side-loading? Check out the video below. Shows an Ercoupe landing in a stiff crosswind at 5:40 into the video, followed by shots of other pilots in other more conventional aircraft attempting to land in the same wind conditions (the Ercoupe wasn't the only one to experience serious side-loading on the gear, but it was the only one designed to expect it.)

 
ah

i'd just put some rudder pedals on dere

i've seen some heavy jets land crosswind like that... forget about a slip, just land in a crab and smoke some tires
 
Ron Levy said:
Or you can use Howard "Eye of the Examiner" Fried's method and just roll down the window and stick your arm and shoulder out to provide drag on that side to act like a rudder while holding the other wing down.
Click to expand...

Amazing what is on Youtube these days; here's a video where the pilot does open the window an Ercoupe to do what he calls an "arm out the window slip":

 
interestingly, i flew an ercoupe that had been modded with rudder pedals once. they were worthless in a crosswind landing. the rudder authority is so low at landing speeds that it is mostly just frustrating to pilots who seem bent on not landing in a crab.
 
Ron Levy said:
You don't. The gear is designed to take the side loading, so you land in a crab.

Or you can use Howard "Eye of the Examiner" Fried's method and just roll down the window and stick your arm and shoulder out to provide drag on that side to act like a rudder while holding the other wing down. Of course, that method has its limitations when the wind is from the left side, and you ask your passenger to do that, and your passenger says :yikes:
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Thanks. I needed that.

Really.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Want to see some serious side-loading? Check out the video below. Shows an Ercoupe landing in a stiff crosswind at 5:40 into the video, followed by shots of other pilots in other more conventional aircraft attempting to land in the same wind conditions (the Ercoupe wasn't the only one to experience serious side-loading on the gear, but it was the only one designed to expect it.)
Click to expand...

That was painful to watch. Some of those were a little too interesting. ;)

Looked like the C-180 driver had to stand on a brake to keep it together. The tailwheel broke out of the lock right as he got it stopped.

You suppose there were people standing on the ramp with big Olympic style scorecards? ;) ;) ;)
 
Jim Logajan said:
Amazing what is on Youtube these days; here's a video where the pilot does open the window an Ercoupe to do what he calls an "arm out the window slip":
Click to expand...


The first GA aircraft I flew in as an adult was an Aeronca Chief. The pilot (a good friend) opened both windows and stuck his hands out to turn.
 
It was for a number of reasons, all good. He had a grass strip on a farm property he owned. We had a great weekend there. Sadly, he moved down to Florida after that.
 
Ron Levy said:
First, just because the DOI os 1950 doesn't mean that's when the pilot took the test. You get a new DOI each time they print you a new ticket, even for a change of address or whatever.
Click to expand...
Okay, that makes sense, but I disagree that (at least nowadays ) they issue you a new ticket every time you change addresses. Being Navy, I've changed addresses a couple times and they never issued me a new one.
 
That reminds me, I need to check my mailbox. Any day now that tiny plastic card will arrive - I SERIOUSLY CANNOT WAIT. Does it have holograms? Or magic powers? Who knows!
 
steingar said:
The first GA aircraft I flew in as an adult was an Aeronca Chief. The pilot (a good friend) opened both windows and stuck his hands out to turn.
Click to expand...
My dad had a CFI back in the 60's who made him fly a 152 using only the throttle and the doors.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
OMG. I should try that in my rental 152. Or not.
Click to expand...

BTDT in a Skyhawk. It's noisy.

Anything not tied down (paper) typically flys back to the baggage area. Bye chart! Bye checklist! ;)

I also lost a Canon camera lens over Petaluma doing this recently. ;) ;) ;)

(Hahaha! Kidding! Just kidding. I was nowhere near California that day!)

But, I have played with the doors. It works. They're pretty good flight controls.

Makes you appreciate your seat belt a whole lot more looking straight down with the pilot's side door open while you're pushing on it to shove it out into the airstream to go left.

Right side is harder to do in a Skyhawk, easier in a 150. Need long arms. ;)

Can't be all that good for the hinges on a Cessna either. :dunno:
 
denverpilot said:
BTDT in a Skyhawk. It's noisy.

Anything not tied down (paper) typically flys back to the baggage area. Bye chart! Bye checklist! ;)

I also lost a Canon camera lens over Petaluma doing this recently. ;) ;) ;)

(Hahaha! Kidding! Just kidding. I was nowhere near California that day!)

But, I have played with the doors. It works. They're pretty good flight controls.

Makes you appreciate your seat belt a whole lot more looking straight down with the pilot's side door open while you're pushing on it to shove it out into the airstream to go left.

Right side is harder to do in a Skyhawk, easier in a 150. Need long arms. ;)

Can't be all that good for the hinges on a Cessna either. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Awesome. But your balls are bigger than mine. I don't think I would try that stunt.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Awesome. But your balls are bigger than mine. I don't think I would try that stunt.
Click to expand...

I think that's the first time anyone's ever said that to me. I'm pretty risk-averse being a systems guy and all.

Back then, I just figured I'd pop a door at altitude since there's all these stories of people panicking when one pops open at takeoff to see what it sounds like, etc. I wanted to hear/see it.

That turned into popping open both doors and playing around a bit.

They trail in the slipstream so they're about an inch open and don't really go anywhere. You have to work to push them outward.

Those poor hinges weren't meant to be the pivot point against moving air though.

It can actually require a bit of force to close them again.

Alternately, I love flying around with the window open. That's nice. I worry a little bit about the small fragile window hardware though.

The trick to getting a balky window to close is to step on the right rudder pedal at the same time as a touch of left aileron while you pull on the window handle.

Shuts it for you. ;) Keep fingers out of the way. ;)

I suppose it would also help close a whole door too. Didn't try it.
 
ajstoner21 said:
Try to fly an approach to land using ONLY rudder pedals, throttle, and trim. (Perhaps from a long straight in.....)
Click to expand...

On my PP checkride, my DPE had me fly back to the airport like this...it was a blast! Best lesson on the use of trim I've ever had.
 
dell30rb said:
ah

i'd just put some rudder pedals on dere

i've seen some heavy jets land crosswind like that... forget about a slip, just land in a crab and smoke some tires
Click to expand...


You can but they are Barely effective. One pedal pops one side out, the other pedal the otherside
 
Fearless Tower said:
Okay, that makes sense, but I disagree that (at least nowadays ) they issue you a new ticket every time you change addresses. Being Navy, I've changed addresses a couple times and they never issued me a new one.
Click to expand...


Did you file a new address with the FAA?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Okay, that makes sense, but I disagree that (at least nowadays ) they issue you a new ticket every time you change addresses. Being Navy, I've changed addresses a couple times and they never issued me a new one.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can change your address without getting a new piece of plastic, but if you do ask for a new piece of plastic with the new address (and weight, and hair color), it changes the date in the registry.

But, if I start using "Just for men" like they tell me to on TV - do I have to update my certificate again?
 
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