FAA approves iPads for pilots' electronic charts

[flyingcheesehead]

No, if (s)he ordered it from Verizon, it's a 3G model. Therefore it includes a built-in GPS. Of course, the models mentioned on ForeFlight's site are superior, as long as one doesn't mind the additional piece of hardware.

Not if it's an "iPad 1" as that poster stated - VZ was selling WiFi-only 1st-gen iPads with the idea that you'd buy a MyFi and pay twice as much for data as AT&T charged.

Frankly, I'm surprised VZ still had any of them.

 

[Artiom]

Call me "late to the party", but . . . I just ordered an iPad 1 32 Gig from Verizon today--basically on faith (especially after reading some of these posts). $399, in stock, free overnight shipping.

He ordered iPad 1. It will be too good deal for iPad2:wink2:
I just read on AOPA forum that WingX7 Pro has a 30 days free trial. Looks pretty cool, has a lot of handy stuff built-in but crashed twice in 15 minutes
Will take it to the air on Saturday and try in a flight.

 

[jason]

Bravo3,
You probably ordered WiFi only variant of iPad. That variant doesn't have internal GPS. You will have to buy external GPS to use georeferenced charts. Check out ForeFlight web site - they have couple recommended models. Also ForeFlight has reputation of the best yet affordable EFB. Requires $75/year subscription.
Cheaper but very good alternative is SkyCharts Pro - $20/year gets you moving map, METAR/TAF if you have access to the Internet, builtin A/FD, etc.
AeroWeather is my favorite app to check weather.
FlightScale is very convenient W&B app.
I believe that will get you started. Let us know if you have questions or need help with your new toy.

So is WnB Pro (developed by a member of this board).

 

[Bravo3]

Thanks all for the input, guys. I ordered Foreflight late last night and have been downloading all the SW states' info--still waiting for CA to load. I'm definately not an Apple guy as the iPad is still a mystery to me (although pretty cool).

I got the MiFi mobile wifi hub. [Yeah, I'm a chump who pays retail+] What a beyotch and a half it is to get up and running. Lousy instruction manual that assumes you're an EE.

Hell, I thought today was going to be a relaxing day after my solo x-country yesterday. Heck, that was way less stressfull. Talk about a learning curve: new iPad, Foreflight app to learn, MiFi to set-up. Where'd I put the Jack??

 

[Bravo3]

Back from the sweat lodge . . . My iPad 1does NOT have GPS, as someone mentioned. The wife thinks it would be great for the kiddies. There's my excuse to get the iPad 2!

Funny, I never planned to use the iPad for flying but now that I'm "in the water" I can see how cool it would be to have in the plane with GPS and all the stored charts right there beside me.

On the other hand . . . I plan to get a Garmin 430 or 530 anyway, so I could still keep the iPad 1 for the charts and airports with all their Metars and Tafs.

I'm early into the game with ForeFlight but if it doesn't do all the flight planning stuff a lot of us are looking for couldn't Duat's Voyager program pick up the slack?

 

[Bravo3]

Problem solved. iPad 1 and its worthless MiFi 3Gig wifi hub on their way back to Verizon.

So . . . now that I've cleaned the slate, it's wait for the 64G iPad 2, stick with satellite internet service, and download ForeFlight--again.

Now, can I play with the cool kids?

 

[Artiom]

Good decision.
You can get iPad1 3G or wait for iPad2. 16GB, 32GB or 64GB is depend of the usage of iPad beyond in flight you have in mind. If you are planning to keep your entire music library on iPad plus some movies then 64GB is your choice. If you're planning to keep only couple eBooks on it, few apps, etc, then 16GB might be enough. However ForeFlight recommends 32GB model. iPad2 is faster, has 2 cameras. Is it worth $200? Your call.
Check out AT&T iPad page:
http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/ipad.jsp?source=ECk4SP02400dcjy3E
They have pretty good deals on iPad1 like #g 16GB for $429.
When you get your iPad try ForeFlight and WingX before subscribing. They both have 30 days free trial period.

 

[gprellwitz]

Good decision.
You can get iPad1 3G or wait for iPad2. 16GB, 32GB or 64GB is depend of the usage of iPad beyond in flight you have in mind. If you are planning to keep your entire music library on iPad plus some movies then 64GB is your choice. If you're planning to keep only couple eBooks on it, few apps, etc, then 16GB might be enough. However ForeFlight recommends 32GB model. iPad2 is faster, has 2 cameras. Is it worth $200? Your call.
Check out AT&T iPad page:
http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/ipad.jsp?source=ECk4SP02400dcjy3E
They have pretty good deals on iPad1 like #g 16GB for $429.
When you get your iPad try ForeFlight and WingX before subscribing. They both have 30 days free trial period.

I've got about 30 programming texts as PDFs, a couple thousand photos, and Foreflight with two cycles of data covering almost the entire US all sitting in less than 10GB. Don't have much audio on there yet. I'm thinking that the 64GB model I got may have been way overkill!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I've got about 30 programming texts as PDFs, a couple thousand photos, and Foreflight with two cycles of data covering almost the entire US all sitting in less than 10GB. Don't have much audio on there yet. I'm thinking that the 64GB model I got may have been way overkill!

Give it time, Grant - You've only had it for 3 days. You know how it works - Your data will grow to use all available space.

BTW, you must not have two full data cycles from ForeFlight, as they're about 7GB and change apiece... But, if you don't download Alaska, that alone will save you well over a gig per cycle!

 

[gprellwitz]

Give it time, Grant - You've only had it for 3 days. You know how it works - Your data will grow to use all available space.

BTW, you must not have two full data cycles from ForeFlight, as they're about 7GB and change apiece... But, if you don't download Alaska, that alone will save you well over a gig per cycle!

Okay, I admit I haven't finished downloading the second cycle of Alaska. And that first point I am entirely aware of, as well as the fact that you can't upgrade an iPad, hence my purchase of a 64GB model!

 

[alaskaflyer]

BTW, you must not have two full data cycles from ForeFlight, as they're about 7GB and change apiece... But, if you don't download Alaska, that alone will save you well over a gig per cycle!

There is a metric crapload of Alaska sectionals and low altitude charts. Data from most states varies from about 30mb to around 100mb. Texas is 100 and change, California is 200 and change, Alaska is 1GB!

Over the weekend I did a cross country round robin which spanned four sectional charts, all north of the Alaska Range.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Give it time, Grant - You've only had it for 3 days. You know how it works - Your data will grow to use all available space.

That's always been my experience.

 

[murphey]

re: bad elf

Just rotate the iPad so the GPS is at the top. Then it's out of the way and gets better reception.

Does ForeFlight support this? I just tried it on the iPod Touch, and it doesn't like being upside down. Sideways, fine. But upside down, the app pages don't turn upside down or sideways, either.

 

[murphey]

Call me "late to the party", but . . . I just ordered an iPad 1 32 Gig from Verizon today--basically on faith (especially after reading some of these posts). $399, in stock, free overnight shipping.

Refurb on Apple's site: iPad 1, wifi, 64gb $529.

 

[murphey]

I've got about 30 programming texts as PDFs, a couple thousand photos, and Foreflight with two cycles of data covering almost the entire US all sitting in less than 10GB. Don't have much audio on there yet. I'm thinking that the 64GB model I got may have been way overkill!

Don't believe it. Disk space required is always 10% more than what's available....

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Does ForeFlight support this? I just tried it on the iPod Touch, and it doesn't like being upside down. Sideways, fine. But upside down, the app pages don't turn upside down or sideways, either.

Yes. It's the iPod Touch that doesn't like being upside down - The iPad will do all four orientations.

In fact, the way I mount the iPad in the DA40, it's "upside down." But you wouldn't know it except the button is at the top instead of the bottom.

 

[jason]

Yes. It's the iPod Touch that doesn't like being upside down - The iPad will do all four orientations.

In fact, the way I mount the iPad in the DA40, it's "upside down." But you wouldn't know it except the button is at the top instead of the bottom.

Have you posted a picture of your mount? I've been trying to figure out how to mount it in the Cherokee.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I'm finally getting around to getting the Ipad II, but don't really want a data plan. Any suggestions as to where to get one?

Best,

Dave

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Have you posted a picture of your mount? I've been trying to figure out how to mount it in the Cherokee.

Aha... Thanks for the reminder, I have not. I did finally get some pictures of it recently though:

 

[jason]

Aha... Thanks for the reminder, I have not. I did finally get some pictures of it recently though:

Cool! You mind if I swing by and borrow that so that I can try it out?

It might work for me and it might not. Somehow I don't think it would be nearly as clean with a yoke.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Cool! You mind if I swing by and borrow that so that I can try it out?

It might work for me and it might not. Somehow I don't think it would be nearly as clean with a yoke.

Well, since I also fly a yoked airplane (182), I bought the hardware to work for either situation. Here's the list of parts I bought from RAM:

1) Yoke Clamp Base with 1" Rubber Ball and 1/4-20" Tap for Camera or Video
2) 3.25" Diameter Suction Cup Twist Lock Base with 1" Ball
3) Double 1" Ball Adapter
4) "B" (Medium) Arm
5) "A" (Short) Arm
6) iPad Cradle
7) Two 2.5" 2.5" Round Base with the AMPs Hole Pattern & 1" Ball

So - Obviously I'm not using the suction cup and the yoke mount at the same time, but all the rest of the parts are in use. Here's a top view of it mounted in the DA40 which shows the double-ball connector and both arms a bit better:

Having two arms and the double-ball connector allows for a lot more positioning flexibility, so it works in both the DA40 and the yoked airplanes as well as my car.

In the 182, I use the yoke clamp, then run one arm from that towards me, and then the ball and the second arm allow for it to "bend" down over the front of the yoke so that the iPad is centered better. That should work well in the Cherokee too.

 

[jason]

Well, since I also fly a yoked airplane (182), I bought the hardware to work for either situation. Here's the list of parts I bought from RAM:

1) Yoke Clamp Base with 1" Rubber Ball and 1/4-20" Tap for Camera or Video
2) 3.25" Diameter Suction Cup Twist Lock Base with 1" Ball
3) Double 1" Ball Adapter
4) "B" (Medium) Arm
5) "A" (Short) Arm
6) iPad Cradle
7) Two 2.5" 2.5" Round Base with the AMPs Hole Pattern & 1" Ball

So - Obviously I'm not using the suction cup and the yoke mount at the same time, but all the rest of the parts are in use. Here's a top view of it mounted in the DA40 which shows the double-ball connector and both arms a bit better:



Having two arms and the double-ball connector allows for a lot more positioning flexibility, so it works in both the DA40 and the yoked airplanes as well as my car.

In the 182, I use the yoke clamp, then run one arm from that towards me, and then the ball and the second arm allow for it to "bend" down over the front of the yoke so that the iPad is centered better. That should work well in the Cherokee too.

Hmm. I don't know. there is a BIG difference between the yoke on your 182 and the yoke on a 1964 Cherokee 180. A lot of that difference is just in lap clearance. For instance, in a big crosswind, it's hard to even have a kneeboard on my lap because the yoke can be travel limited while fighting the crosswind. Not to mention how much of the panel exists below yoke level in a cherokee. I'm not even sure what I'd be covering.

Why don't you swing by and we'll see if something works before I order the parts?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hmm. I don't know. there is a BIG difference between the yoke on your 182 and the yoke on a 1964 Cherokee 180. A lot of that difference is just in lap clearance. For instance, in a big crosswind, it's hard to even have a kneeboard on my lap because the yoke can be travel limited while fighting the crosswind. Not to mention how much of the panel exists below yoke level in a cherokee.

Actually, I did use it in the Archer once. Worked fine.

The point of "lowering" it is to allow for a better view of the instruments and to keep the weight balanced better - If you leave it too high, the yoke will want to flop to the side. I think that when I mount it, the bottom of the iPad is roughly at the edge of the arc that the sides of the yoke would carve out.

The other possibility would be to rotate the yoke clamp 180º*and run the arm along the underside of the yoke - I haven't tried that yet. If that works well, you might be able to get away with a single "C" arm, or maybe even the single B arm, instead of the A arm + double ball connector + B arm thing. I'll have to try that next time I'm near the airplanes...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm finally getting around to getting the Ipad II, but don't really want a data plan. Any suggestions as to where to get one?

Your friendly local Apple store... Or store.apple.com... Best Buy and some other places have them too, but the Apple Store experience is better.

Check before you go, they're still pretty scarce!

 

[billwil]

Actually, I did use it in the Archer once. Worked fine.

..

Do you have pics of it mounted in the 182?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Your friendly local Apple store... Or store.apple.com... Best Buy and some other places have them too, but the Apple Store experience is better.

Check before you go, they're still pretty scarce!

Thanks Kent! Last time I went to our local Apple store, it was a zoo. Got my niece an Ipad last summer. It was all we could do to get some help to just buy one! We knew what we wanted, although, we needed some tips on memory etc. The place was just awash with folks mostly looking and asking questions. Maybe I can try off hours.

Dave

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Do you have pics of it mounted in the 182?

No, I think I've actually only flown with it in the 182 at night so far. 182 = wife, DA40 = new mistress, ya know? Since we picked up the DA40 on Oct. 1, I've got 58.0 hours in the DA40, 3.0 in the 182, and 0.7 in the Citabria.

 

[denverpilot]

My photos in my 182 are probably too dark to see details, but I'll go find the link somewhere.

I just had to pipe up from the peanut gallery and say that this is the best Kent quote ever...

"Having two arms and the double-ball connector allows for a lot more positioning flexibility..."

I have the "angle bracket" on the iPad plate, and then a medium sized arm. If I order up the short arm, that'll get the iPad right up flat against the yoke.

You might point out Kent that you're putting the iPad on the passenger side yoke, where it won't be hitting you or your kneeboard, right?

I've now done both my side and pax side, and for a long X-C my eyeballs can see the small print on the pax side okay.

I also played with the suction cup mount on the left window for both the iPhone (checklists) and iPad (alternate location) on the ground and liked the phone there. The iPad *could* go there but it blocks the ASI a bit. I didn't like that.

I'll report back (and get some real daytime photos) when the airplane's back from Annual.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thanks Kent! Last time I went to our local Apple store, it was a zoo. Got my niece an Ipad last summer. It was all we could do to get some help to just buy one! We knew what we wanted, although, we needed some tips on memory etc. The place was just awash with folks mostly looking and asking questions. Maybe I can try off hours.

Yeah, if you go in before school lets out, you should be good. Apple's popularity certainly makes things "interesting"... Here's a couple of pictures I took about three seconds apart from each other at a mall in Indianapolis about a year ago:

The Apple store:

The mall hallway, at the same time:

Yeah. That's what the Apple store looked like after the mall had been closed for 20 minutes.

Here's one of the Sacramento Apple store during business hours between Christmas and New Year's:

Insane! But most of the time, it's not quite that bad and it's easy to get help.

Edit: Jeez, I know Apple publishes standards for everything, but I had never looked at both of the "interior" pictures before. Like I said, one's in Sacramento and the other's in Indianapolis... And you can't even tell the difference!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I just had to pipe up from the peanut gallery and say that this is the best Kent quote ever...

"Having two arms and the double-ball connector allows for a lot more positioning flexibility..."

You might point out Kent that you're putting the iPad on the passenger side yoke, where it won't be hitting you or your kneeboard, right?

No... I put it on my yoke, whichever side I'm sitting on. And I don't use a kneeboard.

 

[gprellwitz]

Thanks Kent! Last time I went to our local Apple store, it was a zoo. Got my niece an Ipad last summer. It was all we could do to get some help to just buy one! We knew what we wanted, although, we needed some tips on memory etc. The place was just awash with folks mostly looking and asking questions. Maybe I can try off hours.

Dave

Dave,
I bought mine from Verizon and did NOT order the data plan. It's working fine. It arrived 3 days after placing the order. Of course, I also ordered the Smart Cover, and they forgot to put it on the order!

 

[gismo]

Dave,
I bought mine from Verizon and did NOT order the data plan. It's working fine. It arrived 3 days after placing the order. Of course, I also ordered the Smart Cover, and they forgot to put it on the order!

At Best Buy, the price for the covers is significantly different for some colors (($70 vs $40), any idea why? Needless to say I opted for grey, one of (cheap?) $40 ones.

 

[murphey]

At Best Buy, the price for the covers is significantly different for some colors (($70 vs $40), any idea why? Needless to say I opted for grey, one of (cheap?) $40 ones.

Best Buy sets its own pricing, regardless of MSRP. I've had this "discussion" with them in the past about an Apple-branded accessory. $24.95 everywhere but $29.95 at Best Buy.

Also had an issue with them many years ago with a major kitchen appliance. They delivered, installed and it didn't work. I insisted they removed it and take it back, and refused to sign for it. Not good customer service. After an hour the appliance was back on the Best Buy truck.

I don't spend money at Best Buy.

 

[jason]

At Best Buy, the price for the covers is significantly different for some colors (($70 vs $40), any idea why? Needless to say I opted for grey, one of (cheap?) $40 ones.

The cheaper ones are polyurethane. The expensive ones are leather. Jesse and I both have the nondescript gray, as well. One of us is going to have to switch it up.

 

[jesse]

At Best Buy, the price for the covers is significantly different for some colors (($70 vs $40), any idea why? Needless to say I opted for grey, one of (cheap?) $40 ones.

Plastic versus leather. No Best Buy pricing conspiracy.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/smart-cover/

 

[gprellwitz]

Better, go with wood. Www.miniot.com.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Question. I was coached to purchase an Ipad with 3g so it would work with GPS but was told I didn't need to subscribe to the data plan. Not the internal GPS, but one of the add ons. I see on the Apple site, to get a 3G Ipad, I need to get a Verizon or AT&T and subscribe. What's up? Do I order from AT&T or Verizon and just not get a data plan?
If I just get the Wifi version without 3G, can I still plug in a supplemental gps?

Best,

Dave

 

[jason]

Question. I was coached to purchase an Ipad with 3g so it would work with GPS but was told I didn't need to subscribe to the data plan. Not the internal GPS, but one of the add ons. I see on the Apple site, to get a 3G Ipad, I need to get a Verizon or AT&T and subscribe. What's up? Do I order from AT&T or Verizon and just not get a data plan?
If I just get the Wifi version without 3G, can I still plug in a supplemental gps?

Best,

Dave

Yes, you can purchase the 3G version anywhere the others are sold and not activate the data plan.

Yes, you can buy a wifi version and use an external GPS (either the plug-in type or wirelessly over bluetooth).

You will need to use an external GPS anyway if you plan to use georef approach plates from the likes of foreflight. They don't support the internal GPS because of accuracy (the externals are WAAS capable). The internal GPS would be fine for driving and other such "non-critical" activities.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Thanks Jason. I was on a track to just get a wifi version before a friend told me I needed the 3G to use the external gps. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, a wifi will work fine.

Dave

 

[jason]

Thanks Jason. I was on a track to just get a wifi version before a friend told me I needed the 3G to use the external gps. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, a wifi will work fine.

Dave

Nope, I have a wifi only and the bad elf GPS. Works great. The only advantage that the 3G has (besides the data) is that it has an internal GPS built in.