f u GM

[flightwriter]

Please explain how *not* buying a GM vehicle would improve the situation, as you perceive it.

Not to speak for JGoodish, but the way I see it, GM doesn't need me to buy a car from them. If they want my money, they'll just go to the government again.

I also am highly suspect of Daewoos cobbled together by the UAW, as is the case with your Cruze... though it does seem to be a halfway decent car, and has gone longer without a major recall than I would have expected.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I drive a 2005 Daewoo Matiz with a 800cc 3 cylinder engine, CVT and airconditioned. Does the job for me and gets incredible mileage.

 

[comanchepilot]

Sweet! How about a PIREP?

I think the Volt is a great idea...that needs to be built by Ford. That said, it's still a great idea for a commuter car.

Pirep for the Volt or the Zhuguli? I've driven both . . . and a Fiat 128.

The Volt is the wife's car - I put 6 miles on it total I think. She likes it as a commuter car - we live in LA so even the power is expensive - the power to charge the car from 1201-0600 is 11 cents / KwH. It is about 16kw for a full charge so its right around $1.76 a charge. She usually gets about 45 miles out of the charge - so she burns about 1/2 gal of gas a day. Every 2 weeks its $32 or so for gas and $17.60 for electricity - total about $50 for 750 miles of driving. Honestly, its very low cost of operation - and leasing it we don't worry about anything and get the entire tax incentive up front.

We get more than the cost of the lease from her employer as a car allowance - so the vehicle costs us about $100 a month over the tax cost of the lease - The true cost is about $200 in gas, electricity, insurance and then registration fees . . . thats pretty good for about 1200 miles a month of driving. The operating cost is 16 cents a mile - MUCH cheaper than a gas powered car.

Plus - we have solar at the house that generates more power during the day than the car uses - and the local power utility is required to credit us their retail price for the co-generation power from March through late September.. . . so our power bill has actually gone DOWN month over month even though we are using more power . . .

BREAK:

You know what GM needs to do with the Volt drive train? A SMALL pick up. Like the old Toyota and Mazda sized mini-pickups that were so popular during the 1980's . . they'd sell a BILLION of them - charge 'em over night haul junk for gardeners and pool guys -

 

[N747JB]

They have it right now. The C-Max Energi plug in hybrid. Basically a Chevy Volt light. Reported to go about 20 miles all electric. Smaller battery than the Volt, so smaller price tag, but less all electric driving.


http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/

Ford has the Fusion and C-Max energi, plug in hybrids, 95 eMPG, and also an Electric only Focus that is supposed to go 75 miles between charges. We haven't had a total electric yet, but the "energi" models are pretty cool!

 

[azure]

My 2012 Turbo Sonic LT has good acceleration, and if driven with a light foot will average about 40 mpg city and highway during warm weather (about 5 mpg less in the winter). The worst thing I can say about it is that when I run the heater the windshield and parts of the side windows fog over with some kind of oily film. I had to wipe them down 2-3 times a week all winter. According to the dealership, GM says it's "normal" -- due to some bonding agents vaporizing from engine heat. They say it will go away "eventually".

 

[denverpilot]

I have a hard time understanding why anyone would even consider a GM vehicle.

The Japanese are still king when it comes to building an enduring vehicle that people actually want to buy, and I'm not necessarily a fan of Japanese auto manufacturers. I think that Ford has earned equal standing based on merit in recent years, but the other two domestics have a long way to go before they can claim the same.

Trucks.

Dodge and Ford haven't caught the GM diesels yet. Ford is trying but is plagued with problems from their engine supplier.

At least that's my opinion right now. If be happy to hear otherwise. I want to upgrade the tow vehicle and handing money to GM would hurt my soul, but the Duramax plus Allison combination is hard to beat.

Dodge's Cummins is pretty solid but old tech, hooked to a transmission that won't survive, and Ford's diesels have been plagued with all sorts of problems since they dropped the 7.2L.

I may start another thread about this, actually... The Ford 5.0 gas engine seems to whip everything for longevity and pulling capability in a gas truck right now, as long as you keep it under 10,500 lbs., and everyone's so called "heavy duty" lineups are all in sore need of updates.

GM is the furthest ahead in the 3/4 ton options, methinks.

The only other reasonable option is to find a Dodge with a manual transmission or order it custom. And the Mrs won't be playing stick shift any time in her lifetime, as best as I can tell.

You also have the price tags... A *new* F250 is a $60,000 sticker. Ford avoided a bailout but something had to give...

Let me know when Honda builds a 3/4 ton with a diesel. The Ridgeline cracks me up.

 

[N747JB]

Nate, the new Ford diesel has been real good so far, fuel economy is good, power is good and no crazy issues like the 6.0!
I understand bout the $60K sticker shock, but usually Ford and GM are priced pretty close with the same equipment, the Dodges are always cheaper.

 

[Daytonabch04]

Ford has the Fusion and C-Max energi, plug in hybrids, 95 eMPG, and also an Electric only Focus that is supposed to go 75 miles between charges. We haven't had a total electric yet, but the "energi" models are pretty cool!

I have a Ford Fusion Energi and love it. Have about 3200 miles on it and filled up maybe 5-6 times. It's a plug-in electric hybrid that gets 21 miles with no gas. I've seen mpg 50-115 depending on which mode you are in. I think the farthest I've gone is 890 mi between fillups using electric and gas. Not too shabby after downgrading from a thirsty V8 16mpg SUV.

 

[Daytonabch04]

What does a charge cost in your neck of the woods?
The opinions I've heard, from knowledgeable folks without a dog in this fight, say a Hybrid is the way to go until the whole country is making juice and making it available for charging economically.

I've only charged at free stations so far. Some charge $2 hr. but free is better!

 

[KeithASanford]

I drive a 2005 Daewoo Matiz with a 800cc 3 cylinder engine, CVT and airconditioned. Does the job for me and gets incredible mileage.

Have you ever had any issues with your CVT or did Honda just get a bad batch? I've heard bad things from three different people with Civic Hybrids who all had to replace those transmissions for like $4000 out of pocket.

 

[comanchepilot]

Wife has a charging station across from the office but they want $2 an hour - costs her $6 to charge enough to get home on electricity - given that it costs only $2 for gasoline to get home - it makes little sense to charge.

 

[N801BH]

Wife has a charging station across from the office but they want $2 an hour - costs her $6 to charge enough to get home on electricity - given that it costs only $2 for gasoline to get home - it makes little sense to charge.

Welcome to the Obama plan of energy independence...

 

[comanchepilot]

Welcome to the Obama plan of energy independence...

That's whats crazy . .. the power wholesale costs no more than 10c a KwH. The unit installed . . .maybe $800. Over the 8 year lifespan it should earn a profit- they could charge a dollar an hour - but people still would not pay to use something that costs half that at home - its not like we pay double for gas because we buy it at the station close to work instead of close to home -

Electric will only work if the infrastructure is there AND it costs close to what it costs to charge at home . . .

 

[RotorAndWing]

Have you ever had any issues with your CVT or did Honda just get a bad batch? I've heard bad things from three different people with Civic Hybrids who all had to replace those transmissions for like $4000 out of pocket.

Nope, the CVT works just fine.

 

[Jay Honeck]

What does a charge cost in your neck of the woods?
The opinions I've heard, from knowledgeable folks without a dog in this fight, say a Hybrid is the way to go until the whole country is making juice and making it available for charging economically.

Charging costs would be lost in the noise of our monthly electric bills at the hotel.

IMHO, hybrids, with their two separate engines, means twice the chance for failure, and higher maintenance costs. If I need an electric car, I don't want to haul around a gasoline engine -- and vice versa.

 

[PilotAlan]

]IMHO, hybrids, with their two separate engines, means twice the chance for failure, and higher maintenance costs. If I need an electric car, I don't want to haul around a gasoline engine -- and vice versa.

And I look at it exactly the opposite. A pure electric is too limiting, I'd need an electric AND a gas car.
The gas motor gives me the ability to manage the 20% mission that exceeds the range of the battery, plus can handle an unexpected side trip on the way home, or an unexpected trip back home when the battery hasn't had time to charge up.
Or the ability to get home if I get to work and the changing station is occupied or broken.

Electric cars are for couples like you who live on an island and can get by with two cars (one electric and one gas).
My wife and I would have to have four cars. There are days when both of us have "out of norm" missions, we would both have to have backup gas cars in addition to electrics.
Hybrids allow all missions to be performed by one vehicle. As soon as the price comes down, we'll buy one.

 

[ryoung99]

I test drove a 4cyl....yes a 4cyl 2014 Impala yesterday.

Slooooooooow and the ac barely cooled the car down and it was only 75 out.

$27500 for that....yikes

Yes, I know it comes in a V6 too

Bail them out and this is what they make????

Way to trash the Impala name, like the Dodge Dart.

Ok, so I am going to jump on this.... here is the deal, that engine produces 196 hp from the factory. So I hardly think it is Sloooooooow. We have taken that same engine (stock long block), built new injectors, redid the map, put it on methanol and got it to produce almost 300hp and raced it against $40,000 engines and beat them.

That long block will, without a doubt handle a nitro system that runs it around 8500 rpm, and 700+ hp without failure.

I promise if I forwarded your post to my friends over at GM Racing, they would laugh their butts off at you, as am I. You might not have liked the car, fair enough, but talking crap about it and GM just shows either your bias or ignorance. Anytime you want to race against one of their stock pieces of crap please let me know. I have embarrassed many with Esslingers, Gaerte's and Fontanas (if you know anything about 4cly racing you will know these engines) and I am almost certain my little stock block GM would embarrass you too.

 

[PilotAlan]

Ok, so I am going to jump on this....
...
Anytime you want to race against one of their stock pieces of crap please let me know. I have embarrassed many with Esslingers, Gaerte's and Fontanas (if you know anything about 4cly racing you will know these engines) and I am almost certain my little stock block GM would embarrass you too.

So a highly modified engine will make lots of power. That's great, but it doesn't respond to the statement that GM makes junk cars.

The 4cyl Impala is slow. Painfully slow by modern standards. I've driven plenty. They're buzzy, harsh, unrefined, and slow.
The corporate 4cyl may have decent horsepower, but it's a rough, harsh powerplant, even Kia 4cyl engines are refined by comparison.

Remember GM is the same company that made intake manifold gaskets that would degrade when exposed to coolant.
Let me repeat that:
The gasket, whose job it was to keep coolant out of the oil, would break down when exposed to that coolant.
Coolant got into the oil, and the engine would fail.

No GMs for me. Ever.

 

[ryoung99]

So a highly modified engine will make lots of power.

You obviously did not read the post, we run a stock long block, which means the engine assembly. We have replaced the injectors and pan, we replaced the injectors as methanol needs to flow at a higher rate than gasoline, and we wanted more oil and baffles in different places for oval track racing.

To say GM makes junk could not be more wrong, have they had their issues, you bet they have. But that engine in the Impala can be a racy engine. Don't blame Chevy, blame our government for imposing MPG regulations across a manufactures fleet that make them have to detune many engines.

Honestly, I struggle with the 'Merican need for high hp engines. When I drive our 1953 Chevy Truck with the old straight 6, 231 engine. It has plenty of torque and power and I would be shocked if it has 125 hp. Gearing matters way more than the power plant.

But the general consumer, wants their ego stroked so they can talk about how much HP they have which for some reason makes them feel like they are competent drivers, when in fact if they actually used all the hp they would probably soil themselves. My wife has a 528xi, with has plenty of power. It actually humors me when I see people waste their money and buy the bigger engine BMW's and never even use the power they would have had with the 528. All in the name of vanity.

 

[PilotAlan]

You obviously did not read the post,
...
Honestly, I struggle with the 'Merican need for high hp engines.
...
All in the name of vanity.

I didn't say anything about power. I do think the corporate 4cyl is underpowered in the Impala application, but that's a side point.
You talked about getting 300hp (more than 50% more than stock). But that's irrelevant, because the stock engine is the one we are talking about.

I said the engines were unrefined, which I stand by, and that GM builds junk cars which I stand by. The 4cyl always feels like it's working much harder than it is, it's noisy, and the NVH is fatiguing.

GM engines are also inefficient, in that they use way too much fuel for the horsepower. Other manufacturers seem to be able to manage much less specific fuel consumption from their engines, or similar specific fuel consumption from 6cyls than GM does from 4.
So GM's answer to fuel economy is to undersize their engines for the chassis.

The Ecotec 4cyl design in the Impala dates back to 2000. Seriously.