F-18 Low Level Flying

There is no cooler profession than a fighter pilot. Fact.
 
So is he in a MOA the whole time? It's a little scary to think I could come over a ridge and end up in his path.
 
Old Geek said:
So is he in a MOA the whole time? It's a little scary to think I could come over a ridge and end up in his path.
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No, military training route. Got one in my back yard. Still could come over a ridge and be in his path. Just gotta look on a sectional and be aware you could see these guys around 500 ft AGL. I always cross them at least 1,500 ft.
 
Old Geek said:
So is he in a MOA the whole time? It's a little scary to think I could come over a ridge and end up in his path.
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No, that was on a Low Level Training Route, probably a VR. They're depicted on your sectional chart, and Flight Service can tell you when they are active. And from a safety perspective, no light aircraft should be crossing ridges that low if they know what's good for them -- too much chance of being snagged by a downdraft and hitting the ridge.
 
I did IR routes like that all the time, in visual and IFR conditions. The IR (Instrument Routes) have ATC seperation from other IFR traffic.

B-52 we flew at 320 knts and the B-1 at 540 knts. We would be faster or slower than 540 to maintain time control for Enroute seperation with other aircraft within the same route or crossing other IR routes. They are on the VFR sectional charts.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, that was on a Low Level Training Route, probably a VR. They're depicted on your sectional chart, and Flight Service can tell you when they are active. And from a safety perspective, no light aircraft should be crossing ridges that low if they know what's good for them -- too much chance of being snagged by a downdraft and hitting the ridge.
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Just off the top of my head, it would be tough to land at Kneeland without crossing ridges that low. But I do agree in principle.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/O19
 
X3 Skier said:
I don't think I could plan this route much less fly it even at 90 Kts and eliminating the inverted sections.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=17e_1346455094

Cheers
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What a terrible pilot. He has -real- trouble keeping straight and level. I recommend some quality time in an Archer with a CFI. He should probably also read up on basic aerodynamics.

Sheesh. Is this what our military pilots' skill level has sunk to?
 
Old Geek said:
So is he in a MOA the whole time? It's a little scary to think I could come over a ridge and end up in his path.
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Agreed with everyone else. Most MOA's don't go nearly that low anyway. That said, R2508 and R2301W have some fantastic low level areas. I will say that whenever I do a low level like this, I have the radar looking out in front of me, and an AIM-9X under the hammer, so you will be seen before either of our eyes can spot one another. That and we always plan to be higher and more predictable when approaching known GA hotspots/airports along a route. I remember the little airfield on the east side of the salton sea being a big area of caution when flying the IR-289 or VR-1266 in the El Centro range area.
 
spiderweb said:
What a terrible pilot. He has -real- trouble keeping straight and level. I recommend some quality time in an Archer with a CFI. He should probably also read up on basic aerodynamics.

Sheesh. Is this what our military pilots' skill level has sunk to?
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I think your doing this flying stuff wrong mate. This bloke seems to have it down pat.
 
Seanaldinho said:
I think your doing this flying stuff wrong mate. This bloke seems to have it down pat.
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I don't think so. I was told never to bank more than 15 degrees. I'm quite sure some of those wobbly attempts at straight and level went beyond that.
 
spiderweb said:
I don't think so. I was told never to bank more than 15 degrees. I'm quite sure some of those wobbly attempts at straight and level went beyond that.
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Turn and bank indicators are a conspiracy. All you need is a piece of yarn and some gap seal tape! ;)
 
Seanaldinho said:
Turn and bank indicators are a conspiracy. All you need is a piece of yarn and some gap seal tape! ;)
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Yes, but that yarn should not move much. If it does, you need to work harder on staying straight and level.
 
Ron Levy said:
Some do, all the way down to 100 AGL. Check Buckeye or Brush Creek east of Wright-Patt, among others.
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That is why I said "most". Some do go low, but the vast majority I have spent time in either lay on top of Restricted areas, or just don't end in the low altitude regime. But yes, there are some. Same goes for those however.....we don't just troll around at 300' and 500+ kts like idiots. As I'm sure you are aware, there is a good deal of pre-flight planning, and otherwise ORM during the flight to mitigate the risks of a midair with non-participants.
 
35 AoA said:
That is why I said "most". Some do go low, but the vast majority I have spent time in either lay on top of Restricted areas, or just don't end in the low altitude regime. But yes, there are some.
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Not sure where you're operating, but up and down the East Coast and through the Midwest, there are quite a few which go very low. YMMV, but check the data on the chart and don't count on MOA's not going down into the "low altitude regime."
 
Is it just me, or did he have rear view mirrors? Does he have turn signals too? God forbid he forgets to signal before turning base with me in the LSA behind him.


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MDeitch1976 said:
Is it just me, or did he have rear view mirrors?
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Yes, he did. We called them "Mig mirrors," and they were there to help us spot someone with evil intent sneaking up on our six. We had them in all three tactical jets I flew (A-6, F-4, and F-111). No turn signals, however -- we preferred to surprise the Mig with our next move. :wink2:
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, he did. We called them "Mig mirrors," and they were there to help us spot someone with evil intent sneaking up on our six. We had them in all three tactical jets I flew (A-6, F-4, and F-111). No turn signals, however -- we preferred to surprise the Mig with our next move. :wink2:
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Roger that! I always had a fascination with the F-4 growing up. Have never seen one in person. Does the A-6 come in a civilian version?


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Ron Levy said:
Not sure where you're operating, but up and down the East Coast and through the Midwest, there are quite a few which go very low. YMMV, but check the data on the chart and don't count on MOA's not going down into the "low altitude regime."
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We don't do a whole lot of low levels out east.....they are pretty boring and generally not worth our time, aside from maybe some short low alt ingress stuff. Most of what we do is out in the whisky areas or one of a couple overland restricted areas. Places I've spent real time doing low alt stuff are out west, in CA/NV/AZ. This all being said, a lot of very dangerous stuff happens in MOA's regardless of whether or not the floor is at the surface, and most MTR's are not in MOA's anyway. So good plug to the GA dudes to keep an eye out for what you are flying through, and to ask ATC or FSS if you have any questions about places being hot.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Some do, all the way down to 100 AGL. Check Buckeye or Brush Creek east of Wright-Patt, among others.
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That is in my neck of the woods. I don't think they see much action since the 16's got pulled from Springfield though.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, he did. We called them "Mig mirrors," and they were there to help us spot someone with evil intent sneaking up on our six. We had them in all three tactical jets I flew (A-6, F-4, and F-111). No turn signals, however -- we preferred to surprise the Mig with our next move. :wink2:
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Also handy for refueling. We can see the boom receptacle in the top one and the edge of the ice guard on the boom in the left one (when angled just right of course).

No turn sigs on the Eagle either.
 
EvilEagle said:
We can see the boom receptacle in the top one . . .
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There's a joke in there involving mirrors and probing behind you. . . but I'm sure you've heard it. So please remember it for me, and I'll spare the moderators an edit. :D
 
MDeitch1976 said:
Roger that! I always had a fascination with the F-4 growing up. Have never seen one in person. Does the A-6 come in a civilian version?
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Back in college (a long time ago) I remember seeing the Thunderbirds when they were flying the F-4. Impressive. Proof that with enough thrust a brick will fly. :D
 
My first TDY was to MacAir St Louis back in the 60's. The whole factory was wall to wall F-4's and the ramp was chock full as well.

One of my last TDY's was in the 90's to the then McDonnel - Douglas St Louis and there were a few F-15's and a few more F-18's. BIG difference in production levels.

Cheers
 
EvilEagle said:
Also handy for refueling. We can see the boom receptacle in the top one and the edge of the ice guard on the boom in the left one (when angled just right of course).
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...at least until the boomer mistakes the top one on the RF-4C for the receptacle (the recce Phantom had one external mirror on the top while the fighter types had one at about 10:30 and 1:30 and none on the top). Back in March of 1978, a boomer jammed the probe through the WSO's canopy after making that mistake. Very cold and windy ride home for that WSO.
 
Lots of very low level flight in Arkansas not on sectional depicted training routes or in MOAs. Little Rock AFB C-130s have their own training route system. Not as fast as fighters but still a lot faster than most GA. They do monitor and announce on local airport frequencies.
 
Ghery said:
Back in college (a long time ago) I remember seeing the Thunderbirds when they were flying the F-4. Impressive. Proof that with enough thrust a brick will fly. :D
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LOL! And the space shuttle proved bricks can glide.


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