F-150 Diesel

[denverpilot]

Fairly bad showing for the 10 speed attached to the new diesel in the F-150...

(Summary: Truck allows compression braking to exceed RPM limits and went into limp home mode, towing maximum (de)rated weight at 11,000 MSL.)

Be interesting to see what Ford says. They should have put an exhaust brake on it.

And... $69,000 for a 1/2 ton diesel Lariat is absolutely insane. As someone says in the comments, that’ll get you a Raptor. So... why would you want this? Saving $10K over the Super Duty is about it, and 30 MPG or so... unloaded.

Never buy Year one of any Ford engine and transmission combo...

 

[Sac Arrow]

$69K for an F150?

Sounds like you're getting f***d.

 

[CC268]

I agree 69K for a 1/2 ton is insane...but I still love Ford. GM doesn’t hold a candle

 

[denverpilot]

$69K for an F150?

Sounds like you're getting f***d.

Haha well somebody is. Not me. But yeah, there’s a reason Ford is making no cars and focusing on trucks now.

People are willing to finance completely insane numbers for more years of payments than ever, to own... pickup trucks.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Haha well somebody is. Not me. But yeah, there’s a reason Ford is making no cars and focusing on trucks now.

People are willing to finance completely insane numbers for more years of payments than ever, to own... pickup trucks.

Well they made s***ty cars and great trucks for decades. Except for the Crown Vic (and less so, the Town Car.) I drove an Explorer for about ten years. I was mostly happy with it except that a minor collision, not even deploying airbags, completely destroyed it. And it even had a frame.

 

[denverpilot]

I agree 69K for a 1/2 ton is insane...but I still love Ford. GM doesn’t hold a candle

I like them all for different things, but longevity-wise the GM stuff isn’t awful if you can keep the electronics working.

I’ll have to kill my ‘04 Yukon before I need another truck, and it doesn’t look like it’ll be dying anytime soon. First thing to go will be the transmission and who knows when... it’s due. 160,000 on it now.

 

[Zeldman]

$69K for an F150?

I understand that you get 4 free dresses with a new diesel 150...

Always thought that the newer F-150s were just a step away from being a ladies dressing room.....

 

[CC268]

I understand that you get 4 free dresses with a new diesel 150...

Always thought that the newer F-150s were just a step away from being a ladies dressing room.....

Probably cause GM interiors are stuck in the 1970s

 

[Zeldman]

Probably cause GM interiors are stuck in the 1970s

Yep. Doesn't take 3 days to figure out how to turn on the radio..... my mom has a Escape(?). That dash is so busy it is a wonder she doesn't drive into a tree, if we had trees here...

I will admit, back in the 90s I would put new Ford truck seats in my earlier model GMs. The seat is one thing Ford had right for a while.

 

[CC268]

Yep. Doesn't take 3 days to figure out how to turn on the radio..... my mom has a Escape(?). That dash is so busy it is a wonder she doesn't drive into a tree, if we had trees here...

I will admit, back in the 90s I would put new Ford truck seats in my earlier model GMs. The seat is one thing Ford had right for a while.

Idk man I’ve had a lot of friends with Chevy trucks and they were all POS. They just felt cheap. Cracked dash, door panels that felt flimsy, etc. These were newer Chevys too. Electrical issues

Now I will say the brand new Chevy trucks 2017 and newer are a big improvement.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Meh, probably a safety override due to being held at redline for so long on a downhill run. Ford could probably fix it with a firmware update. It’s not like the truck left them stranded.

On a side note, I just don’t get the need for a diesel in any 1/2 ton (especially for the price premium). If you want to run around with 9K+ in-tow all of the time, get a truck that is designed to do it. A 3/4-1ton could do it well within its towing capacity, instead of a 1/2 ton doing it at the end of its tow capacity.




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[SoonerAviator]

Idk man I’ve had a lot of friends with Chevy trucks and they were all POS. They just felt cheap. Cracked dash, door panels that felt flimsy, etc. These were newer Chevys too. Electrical issues

Now I will say the brand new Chevy trucks 2017 and newer are a big improvement.

Agreed. ‘99-‘10 was a bad stretch for all GM vehicles in my opinion. Delphi electronics quality was terrible, and the quality of trim, plastics (door handles/bezels/HVAC) was subpar. The Duramax and 5.3L/LS-series motors were about the only good thing that came out of that era. Although their use of Active Fuel Management was another exercise in poor design.

I think they fixed a lot of issues post-bailout.


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[mwagg737]

My '06 Duramax was by far the best truck I ever owned.
I have a '15 now and love it!

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[CC268]

Meh, probably a safety override due to being held at redline for so long on a downhill run. Ford could probably fix it with a firmware update. It’s not like the truck left them stranded.

On a side note, I just don’t get the need for a diesel in any 1/2 ton (especially for the price premium). If you want to run around with 9K+ in-tow all of the time, get a truck that is designed to do it. A 3/4-1ton could do it well within its towing capacity, instead of a 1/2 ton doing it at the end of its tow capacity.




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I completely agree...

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Agreed. ‘99-‘10 was a bad stretch for all GM vehicles in my opinion. Delphi electronics quality was terrible, and the quality of trim, plastics (door handles/bezels/HVAC) was subpar. The Duramax and 5.3L/LS-series motors were about the only good thing that came out of that era. Although their use of Active Fuel Management was another exercise in poor design.

I think they fixed a lot of issues post-bailout.

Bob Lutz did a lot to improve interior quality/design at GM. True, the older stuff was a real Tupperware party, for those of you old enough to get that reference! Cool guy. He offered me a ride in his L-39 way back when.

 

[denverpilot]

Meh, probably a safety override due to being held at redline for so long on a downhill run. Ford could probably fix it with a firmware update. It’s not like the truck left them stranded.

On a side note, I just don’t get the need for a diesel in any 1/2 ton (especially for the price premium). If you want to run around with 9K+ in-tow all of the time, get a truck that is designed to do it. A 3/4-1ton could do it well within its towing capacity, instead of a 1/2 ton doing it at the end of its tow capacity.




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Seven MPH is pretty much stranded in my book. Ha. But yes, Ford needs to fix their software. Tbat thing has ten gears, it should have selected a lower one when it could if it can’t hold the max trailer load back properly without an exhaust brake.

I think the market for these is daily drivers that maybe pull a large camper to the lake on weekends. 30 MPG most of the time, working a little too hard every few weekends.

The 3” of squat for a “relatively” light trailer was a bit unsurprising and not impressive too. Not that they hold up over the long haul, but Dodge put adjustable built in air suspension for that problem in their half-ton.

 

[GRG55]

I like them all for different things, but longevity-wise the GM stuff isn’t awful if you can keep the electronics working.

I’ll have to kill my ‘04 Yukon before I need another truck, and it doesn’t look like it’ll be dying anytime soon. First thing to go will be the transmission and who knows when... it’s due. 160,000 on it now.

Trannys are cheap. Compared to a new truck.

We replaced first the transmission, then transfer case in my wife's '03 Sierra pickup. It's ticked over 310,000, and she still won't turn it in. Like an old pair of slippers. My '10 Denali is at 190,000 and so far only routine consumables. Installed a set of Michelin Premier LTXs on it when I pulled the Hankook winters off it a few weeks ago and really impressed with the wet road performance and how quiet they run.

First two GMs in what was previously a Ford pickup only family (four generations of us). Can't complain.

 

[GRG55]

Probably cause GM interiors are stuck in the 1970s

And the Ford interiors look like they are out of a Saturday morning Transformers cartoon.

I have an '06 F350 diesel to pull Mrs. GRG55's ridiculously oversized horse trailer (in our household the horses want for nothing!). I prefer that interior to the plasticraft versions we've been seeing from Ford for about a half-decade or so.

 

[GRG55]

Agreed. ‘99-‘10 was a bad stretch for all GM vehicles in my opinion. Delphi electronics quality was terrible, and the quality of trim, plastics (door handles/bezels/HVAC) was subpar. The Duramax and 5.3L/LS-series motors were about the only good thing that came out of that era. Although their use of Active Fuel Management was another exercise in poor design.

I think they fixed a lot of issues post-bailout.
...

Not my experience at all with two of them. And they are daily drivers in a mountainous region with serious winters.

 

[CC268]

And the Ford interiors look like they are out of a Saturday morning Transformers cartoon.

The sales numbers speak for themselves

 

[denverpilot]

Trannys are cheap. Compared to a new truck.

We replaced first the transmission, then transfer case in my wife's '03 Sierra pickup. It's ticked over 310,000, and she still won't turn it in. Like an old pair of slippers. My '10 Denali is at 190,000 and so far only routine consumables. Installed a set of Michelin Premier LTXs on it when I pulled the Hankook winters off it a few weeks ago and really impressed with the wet road performance and how quiet they run.

First two GMs in what was previously a Ford pickup only family. Can't complain.

Oh I didn’t say I was getting rid of it when the tranny goes. That trans is ultra cheap in rebuilt form compared to a lot of things.

My Michelin LTXs on the Dodge are noisy as hell because they’re hard as a rock for heavy towing. Not that you can hear them over the drone of the Cummins... but they’re noisy. I don’t think mine are “Premiere” though. Probably an earlier version.

And the Ford interiors look like they are out of a Saturday morning Transformers cartoon.

LOL. Which is why Cirrus used their air vents in their jet. Hahahaha.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Seven MPH is pretty much stranded in my book. Ha. But yes, Ford needs to fix their software. Tbat thing has ten gears, it should have selected a lower one when it could if it can’t hold the max trailer load back properly without an exhaust brake.

I think the market for these is daily drivers that maybe pull a large camper to the lake on weekends. 30 MPG most of the time, working a little too hard every few weekends.

The 3” of squat for a “relatively” light trailer was a bit unsurprising and not impressive too. Not that they hold up over the long haul, but Dodge put adjustable built in air suspension for that problem in their half-ton.

Lol, if they had pulled over on the shoulder and shut the truck off and restarted, they would have been fine. They stopped after the downhill run and shut the truck off, came back 10 minutes later and ran the uphill segment (without issue). It was just an electronic safeguard that probably wouldn’t get enacted except in a few rare circumstances like this particular test.


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[GRG55]

The sales numbers speak for themselves

Rolls Royce doesn't sell a lot of cars either.

 

[GRG55]

Oh I didn’t say I was getting rid of it when the tranny goes. That trans is ultra cheap in rebuilt form compared to a lot of things.

My Michelin LTXs on the Dodge are noisy as hell because they’re hard as a rock for heavy towing. Not that you can hear them over the drone of the Cummins... but they’re noisy. I don’t think mine are “Premiere” though. Probably an earlier version.
...

When I was researching tires found there is apparently a BIG difference between the LTX (which they still make and is OEM on some vehicles) and the Premier LTX. Personally I think the Premier moniker is a bit hokey, but the tires appear to be quite different from one another.

 

[denverpilot]

Lol, if they had pulled over on the shoulder and shut the truck off and restarted, they would have been fine. They stopped after the downhill run and shut the truck off, came back 10 minutes later and ran the uphill segment (without issue). It was just an electronic safeguard that probably wouldn’t get enacted except in a few rare circumstances like this particular test.


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I believe the order was that until they shut it down FOR ten minutes it didn’t reset. They stopped and restarted multiple times before waiting the ten minutes.

That is not a stretch of highway you want to be stopped on the shoulder for ten minutes on. First off there’s no shoulder, only a runaway truck ramp more that halfway down it. Second, if you stop you’re very likely to be hit, especially in any sort of weather. Good weather you’re running a pretty big risk, which is why they kept coming down the hill to the parking lot.

As shown in the video, kinda, it’s the ski area parking lot and on the other side of the highway, so you have to do that 7 MPH limp mode under the overpass and then down a frontage road a ways. There’s nowhere else to park a rig that long anywhere else along there.

 

[denverpilot]

When I was researching tires found there is apparently a BIG difference between the LTX (which they still make and is OEM on some vehicles) and the Premier LTX. Personally I think the Premier moniker is a bit hokey, but the tires appear to be quite different from one another.

Good to know if I keep the Dodge. I figured that the devil was in that detail. The LTX are rated for loads and work well, but they’re as hard as rocks. Snow/ice traction is nil on them, but that’s already bad in a dually anyway, so I never cared. Corners have to be taken very slowly to avoid spinning out a dually anyway in compacted snow.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Not my experience at all with two of them. And they are daily drivers in a mountainous region with serious winters.

My wife has had a 99, 01, and currently an ‘07 GMC 1500, all with the 5.3L.

‘99/‘01 - each had intermittent or failed gauges. Window motor failures, HVAC issues, and service engine lights that we were always chasing on impeccably-maintained vehicles. Plastic tailgate handles and door bezels that would come loose.

Current ‘07 GMC has been better, but still has check engine lights from O2 sensor failures. It also burns 2qts every 5K miles. Has less than 120K on it.

My ‘07 Pontiac GP GXP w/5.3L has been an exercise in futility with error messages and even a tranny failure in under 100K. Also burns over 2qts of oil between 5K mile change intervals.

Bad luck? Maybe, but you won’t find me taking any more chances on them for a while.




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[denverpilot]

My wife has had a 99, 01, and currently an ‘07 GMC 1500, all with the 5.3L.

‘99/‘01 - each had intermittent or failed gauges. Window motor failures, HVAC issues, and service engine lights that we were always chasing on impeccably-maintained vehicles. Plastic tailgate handles and door bezels that would come loose.

The good news about all of those is they’re easy and cheap to fix.

Gauges $100 to have someone else do it. $15 if you’re handy with a soldering iron.

Window motor - my driver side is just slow. I help it along. Ha.

HVAC, mostly the control head fails, once in a while a blend door motor. Both easy to get at and cheap to replace. The VFD was getting impossible to read from dimming and one of the rotary encoders for temp was glitching out. A replacement was ten minutes and $40 on Amazon.

(As opposed to my Subaru who’s blend door servo has failed and it’s going to require complete removal of the entire dash to even get at it, including passenger side airbag removal. I got the dash mostly apart and realized it’s behind the first layer and buried behind the second layer. Not fun. Decided to put it back together and let someone else cuss at it this fall before I need the blend door move again. Currently stuck in defrost. Ha.)

Check engine light on the Yukon has been rare but something real if it came on.

You forgot the standard GM fuel pump failure. But again, couple hundred bucks and it’s rolling again.

Tailgate pull down popped off. I should fix that one of these days, but don’t care.

You forgot leather seats that go from “looks mildly worn” to “exploded like a thrown egg”. Ha. $300.

Doors have been fine.

The one I dislike but really don’t care enough to fix is the failed oil pressure sender. Mine now stays at 80 PSI constantly except for rare occasions where I get my foot in it and it drops instantly to 0 and jumps back to 80. LOL.

The only other item that has failed was the 4WD encoder. $110. Pretty easy fix but I didn’t have time so I paid a shop to swap it. I didn’t diagnose first so I paid $40 for new buttons/resistor encoder unit in the dash and put that in myself which helped to match the lighting to the new HVAC control.

The stock Bose stereo power button is getting flaky so I just turn it down or leave it set to my aftermarket “iPod” input (which works fine with my iPhones to this day, but once was for my spinny disk iPod before it died a watery death).

 

[GRG55]

My wife has had a 99, 01, and currently an ‘07 GMC 1500, all with the 5.3L.

‘99/‘01 - each had intermittent or failed gauges. Window motor failures, HVAC issues, and service engine lights that we were always chasing on impeccably-maintained vehicles. Plastic tailgate handles and door bezels that would come loose.

Current ‘07 GMC has been better, but still has check engine lights from O2 sensor failures. It also burns 2qts every 5K miles. Has less than 120K on it.

My ‘07 Pontiac GP GXP w/5.3L has been an exercise in futility with error messages and even a tranny failure in under 100K. Also burns over 2qts of oil between 5K mile change intervals.

Bad luck? Maybe, but you won’t find me taking any more chances on them for a while.

Can't say why there's such a difference. My wife's is a 5.7L 4X4 and mine is a 6.2L with full time AWD.

I thought all the fancy automated stuff in hers (it's an SLT) would start failing by now but, other than a couple of dash lights we had to replace, everything still works, including the automatic climate control - something I was certain would cause problems.

You have higher temps in summer in OK, so that might be one factor cooking the electrics? We see occasional 100F, but winters not unusual to hit -35 and even -40. My trucks live outside year-round. My wife's gets the garage.

 

[denverpilot]

You have higher temps in summer in OK, so that might be one factor cooking the electrics? We see occasional 100F, but winters not unusual to hit -35 and even -40. My trucks live outside year-round. My wife's gets the garage.

I think my electronics that have failed (other than the known failures of the gauge cluster servos) were all from vibrations on the washboard roads.

I really want a vehicle reviewer to beat the holy hell out of multiple vehicles on washboards for a simulated 100,000 miles — whichever one has zero failures caused by that, I’d buy it immediately.

Subaru is the closest to perfect in that regard. Their suspensions handle it well but eventually the struts die and then it gets even smoother. LOL. Squish squish squish.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I believe the order was that until they shut it down FOR ten minutes it didn’t reset. They stopped and restarted multiple times before waiting the ten minutes.

That is not a stretch of highway you want to be stopped on the shoulder for ten minutes on. First off there’s no shoulder, only a runaway truck ramp more that halfway down it. Second, if you stop you’re very likely to be hit, especially in any sort of weather. Good weather you’re running a pretty big risk, which is why they kept coming down the hill to the parking lot.

As shown in the video, kinda, it’s the ski area parking lot and on the other side of the highway, so you have to do that 7 MPH limp mode under the overpass and then down a frontage road a ways. There’s nowhere else to park a rig that long anywhere else along there.

Understood. I just think it’s something that a Ford engineer didn’t take into account when designing the fail-safe mode. Hold the engine at redline on a downhill for miles at a time? Not too many places in this country to do that, and even rarer that you’d have 9Klbs pushing the 1/2 tin truck as well.

Ford can adjust the safe mode settings to accommodate such a long downhill run or add an exhaust brake. I doubt they’d do the latter except as an option.

I still wouldn’t buy the diesel F-150 no matter how much I prefer Ford trucks, lol.


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[CC268]

Rolls Royce doesn't sell a lot of cars either.

Cars are for women! I don’t worry about car sales I worry about truck sales.

 

[denverpilot]

Ford can adjust the safe mode settings to accommodate such a long downhill run or add an exhaust brake. I doubt they’d do the latter except as an option.

They need to adjust the grade shifting. Second brake application needs to trigger a latch state that tells the tranny computer it wants one gear lower than the gear it used. That way two solid brake applications and it’s downshifted even further than it would with one.

Or do it “smartly” via knowing the truck is in tow/haul, and it couldn’t hold speed after the first automatic grade shift downshift after that first brake application... so it knows it needs a lower gear.

Of course that whole mess is why I really like my manual trans and manual on the shifter (added by the former owner) exhaust brake switch on the shifter in my Dodge. I don’t have to be passive about it and shouldn’t be in mine. If I know a big grade is coming with a heavy trailer on, slow up slightly, match revs with my right foot as I clutch it and drop two gears, then after the clutch is engaged fully, pop the exhaust brake on.

I just love a manual for towing. All the manufacturers have computers coming out their ears and still can’t develop smart enough tow/haul modes to properly downshift an automatic. Even with a ten speed variety, and full computer control, along with access to all the speed and accelerometer data, and they’re still “not there yet” on towing. Amazing really. It’s not like the data isn’t being collected to do it.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Can't say why there's such a difference. My wife's is a 5.7L 4X4 and mine is a 6.2L with full time AWD.

I thought all the fancy automated stuff in hers (it's an SLT) would start failing by now but, other than a couple of dash lights we had to replace, everything still works, including the automatic climate control - something I was certain would cause problems.

You have higher temps in summer in OK, so that might be one factor cooking the electrics? We see occasional 100F, but winters not unusual to hit -35 and even -40. My trucks live outside year-round. My wife's gets the garage.

I assume you meant 5.3L not 5.7L on the ‘03 of your wife’s. The 5.7 stopped in ‘98 I believe for Silverados. I will say that aside from the tranny failure on the GXP, I was never left stranded by any of them. Just annoyed at numerous $100-$200 repairs for things that shouldn’t fail in under 120K miles.

I’ve run my last two F-150s (‘98/‘08) to 150K+ on nothing but regular maintenance and maybe an alternator replacement (normal in that time period). Some certainly haven’t been so lucky, but I can’t complain too much.


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[GRG55]

The good news about all of those is they’re easy and cheap to fix.

Gauges $100 to have someone else do it. $15 if you’re handy with a soldering iron.

Window motor - my driver side is just slow. I help it along. Ha.

HVAC, mostly the control head fails, once in a while a blend door motor. Both easy to get at and cheap to replace. The VFD was getting impossible to read from dimming and one of the rotary encoders for temp was glitching out. A replacement was ten minutes and $40 on Amazon.

(As opposed to my Subaru who’s blend door servo has failed and it’s going to require complete removal of the entire dash to even get at it, including passenger side airbag removal. I got the dash mostly apart and realized it’s behind the first layer and buried behind the second layer. Not fun. Decided to put it back together and let someone else cuss at it this fall before I need the blend door move again. Currently stuck in defrost. Ha.)

Check engine light on the Yukon has been rare but something real if it came on.

You forgot the standard GM fuel pump failure. But again, couple hundred bucks and it’s rolling again.

Tailgate pull down popped off. I should fix that one of these days, but don’t care.

You forgot leather seats that go from “looks mildly worn” to “exploded like a thrown egg”. Ha. $300.

Doors have been fine.

The one I dislike but really don’t care enough to fix is the failed oil pressure sender. Mine now stays at 80 PSI constantly except for rare occasions where I get my foot in it and it drops instantly to 0 and jumps back to 80. LOL.

The only other item that has failed was the 4WD encoder. $110. Pretty easy fix but I didn’t have time so I paid a shop to swap it. I didn’t diagnose first so I paid $40 for new buttons/resistor encoder unit in the dash and put that in myself which helped to match the lighting to the new HVAC control.

The stock Bose stereo power button is getting flaky so I just turn it down or leave it set to my aftermarket “iPod” input (which works fine with my iPhones to this day, but once was for my spinny disk iPod before it died a watery death).

What in hell do you people do to beat the crap out your vehicles? I live off pavement on a ranch, where we raise horses. Our three pick-ups have to work. And maybe I've just been lucky because I've just not had the same number of things go wrong. Yet.

 

[GRG55]

Cars are for women! I don’t worry about car sales I worry about truck sales.

Stop worrying. Soon Ford won't have anything but trucks to sell. And I'll probably still buy another GMC.

 

[GRG55]

I assume you meant 5.3L not 5.7L on the ‘03 of your wife’s. The 5.7 stopped in ‘98 I believe for Silverados. I will say that aside from the tranny failure on the GXP, I was never left stranded by any of them. Just annoyed at numerous $100-$200 repairs for things that shouldn’t fail in under 120K miles.

I’ve run my last two F-150s (‘98/‘08) to 150K+ on nothing but regular maintenance and maybe an alternator replacement (normal in that time period). Some certainly haven’t been so lucky, but I can’t complain too much.

You are correct. I just checked, and it's a 5.3L

The nickle and dime repairs would more than irritate me too in that short a time frame.

 

[denverpilot]

What in hell do you people do to beat the crap out your vehicles? I live off pavement on a ranch, where we raise horses. Our three pick-ups have to work. And maybe I've just been lucky because I've just not had the same number of things go wrong. Yet.

Working trucks on a ranch don’t get continuous four miles of big washboards a day. Bad enough the ass end is trying to come around on you. That’s what beats up my vehicles.

And yeah, I’m glad I voted the tax increase to pave that entrance road. Biggest fights I’ve ever seen out here. It doubled our property taxes for 20 years.

Construction supposedly starts this fall. I’m not holding my breath. The last road the county paved out here was 4 miles and it took them 9 months.

We always enjoy it when we just happen to hit the entrance road on grader day, in the first couple of hours. Then it’s back to washboard.

 

[Tom-D]

The manufacturer of the mag parts for all three major truck makers, had a big fire, and is out of business for now, Ford was the only one who did not have a back up.

 

[denverpilot]

Of course, if we are talking trucks... it’s hard not to feel embarrassed for Nissan... not so much because their top of the line is bad in any way, but because they think they’ll get truck buyers to pay the same prices as the Big Three trucks.

They got one thing way right though. Column shifter. I hate losing center console and floor space to levers unless the truck is a manual. And Doug doesn’t get that so he picks on the manual shift buttons on the stalk, which are perfect, if you ask me.

But $65,000 for a Nissan truck? Not happening. Not even with the baby Cummins.