Etiquette question regarding landing fees

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SkyVoyager

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I often like to just go up and fly. Sometimes I'll just fly to an airport, land and take right off again (for the fun of it).

I haven't done this before, but I have a question regarding landing fees. Over here on the mid-Atlantic coast, we seem to like landing fees (OXB, 26N, etc.). If you do as I stated above, is the proper etiquette to pay the fee? Or, is there an assumption that by parking the fee would be necessary?

I will do whatever is correct, but I had not considered this until now.

Thanks for the input!
 
There are many variations on the theme. Republic Airport FRG uses the tower logs to send a bill to the aircraft owner for each and every landing. Brookhaven Airport farther out on the island has a paid spotter with binoculars to get the N-number of each airplane touching down, and sends a bill if you don't full-stop and pay at the counter. Some airports only collect if you reach the ops desk. No doubt other airports have other solutions. In any event, it is rarely an issue of etiquette -- either they collect from you or they don't.
 
Ron Levy said:
There are many variations on the theme. Republic Airport FRG uses the tower logs to send a bill to the aircraft owner for each and every landing. Brookhaven Airport farther out on the island has a paid spotter with binoculars to get the N-number of each airplane touching down, and sends a bill if you don't full-stop and pay at the counter. Some airports only collect if you reach the ops desk. No doubt other airports have other solutions. In any event, it is rarely an issue of etiquette -- either they collect from you or they don't.
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Wow, what a coincidence. You mentioned the last two airports I've used. My home base is FRG and my last few flights have been out of HWV:)

I had no idea about the spotter, learn something new everyday:lol:
 
I hate to make this my second negative post of the night but..

I once called brookhaven operations after receiving a landing fee by mail for $2.00 or $2.50. I said to them I will send you $10 for any future landing fees, this will save them the trouble and expense of sending out the invoice. Nope they can't do that they are not setup to handle it! All it would take is quickbooks and the tail number will be the customer name. To complicated I guess..

To answer the op question. If I stop and get out and there is no way to wave the fee like a gas purchase I will gladly pay.. If they track me down and send me a bill for a touch and go I will pay but not be happy about it.
 
Don't pay by mail. Next time you go there pay the bill in person and when they try to tag you for a landing fee say uh but I was just trying to pay the bill LOL.
 
Maybe I can pay by airmail...
Drop it out on the way over !:)


AdamZ said:
Don't pay by mail. Next time you go there pay the bill in person and when they try to tag you for a landing fee say uh but I was just trying to pay the bill LOL.
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I remember an airport in the LA Basin, it may have been SMO. They monitored the radio and wrote down N numbers, sent the bill. Some people would use bogus n numbers in the dark, or so the story went.

Most places don't have "landing fees", but ramp fees. Use the ramp and pay a fee, some fees are waived for a minimum fuel purchase. The GA airports in the Las Vegas area are set up this way. Need to by 20 gallons to get the fee waived.

Most airports have overnight tie down fees, not daily ramps fees. The tie down has been waived with a fuel purchase.

I'm returning from Anchorage to the lower 48.
Fee waived at Carson City, fuel stop and pilot car for lunch.
Eugene OR, overnight, no fees for fuel purchase.
Bellingham WA, no fee for fuel.
Abbotsford BC. $20 Ramp Fee to clear customs, no room for fuel.
Prince George BC, overnight fee waived for fuel.
Fort Nelson, no fees
Waton Lake, no fee and free camping, stayed overnight
Whitehorse, no fee for fuel stop
Northway AK, no fee, no fuel available, Customs Stop
Gulkana AK, no fee, but needed fuel
Merrill Field, Anchorage, $10 per day tie down, 15cent per gallon discount for staying the their hotel (Ace Fuels) on airport.
Homer AK, no fee
Talkeenta AK, no fee
Fairbanks, fuel purchase and overnight (no fee), Ace Fuels
Tok AK, fuel stop, no fee
Whitehorse, YT, $6.25 overnight fee, transient parking.
and tonight back in Fort Nelson, fuel purchase, overnight, no fee

Tomorrow, Edmunton Villeneuve field, I'll let you know.
 
DavidWhite said:
Stick it to the man, don't pay them.
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At Kelleys Island they have signs, you're supposed to voluntarily go inside the (unattended) terminal building and stick $5 in an envelope for them. If you don't, the signs say you will be fined -- I forget the exact amount but it was a lot more than $5. I guess they have spotters with binoculars, too... or want you to think they do.

That said, I'd never have thought about trying to "stick it" to them and the first time I went there, I left a small donation along with the fee. I don't mind small landing fees that help to keep an airport like that one operating. If it was something less reasonable like $50 or even $25, I just wouldn't go there.
 
SkyVoyager said:
Over here on the mid-Atlantic coast, we seem to like landing fees (OXB, 26N, etc.).
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I completely avoid any airport with a landing fee. Ramp/tie-down/overnight fees are a different story. If more of us did the same, these airports would change their policy.
 
AdamZ said:
Don't pay by mail. Next time you go there pay the bill in person and when they try to tag you for a landing fee say uh but I was just trying to pay the bill LOL.
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Seriously, the only way to pay the fee at Republic is by mail -- the FBO's don't collect for the State. Note also that "landing" fees are generally levied by the airport operator, while "ramp" fees are levied by the FBO who leases the ramp from the airport. Thus, FBOs can and often do waive ramp fees for a minimum fuel purchase, but landing fees cannot be waived by the FBO unless, as in some cases, the FBO and the airport operator are the same.
 
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PuertoRicoFlyer said:
I completely avoid any airport with a landing fee. Ramp/tie-down/overnight fees are a different story. If more of us did the same, these airports would change their policy.
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I figure it's worth $5 to me to have their runway/ramp space available for my use. It helps offset the cost of operating the airport, and if the airport isn't financially viable for the operator, it's not going to be there when I need it.
 
Ron Levy said:
I figure it's worth $5 to me to have their runway/ramp space available for my use. It helps offset the cost of operating the airport, and if the airport isn't financially viable for the operator, it's not going to be there when I need it.
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That's the whole theory behind all user fees, these included. It's not often I can't find another operator that wants my business.....
 
jbarrass said:
That's the whole theory behind all user fees, these included. It's not often I can't find another operator that wants my business.....
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In aviation, it is very often you can't find another convenient airport. And in most cases, the airport gets nothing in return for your use of its expensive facilities unless you pay a landing fee, so it's not like you're giving them any business.
 
Ron Levy said:
In aviation, it is very often you can't find another convenient airport. And in most cases, the airport gets nothing in return for your use of its expensive facilities unless you pay a landing fee, so it's not like you're giving them any business.
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Flowage is nothing?
 
It always amazes me that people will buy a 20K-150K or more airplane, spend $30-400 a month to park it somewhere, pay 2K for insurance for the privilege to actually fly it, buy a few thousand dollars worth of "toys" (IPAD, GPS, weather gear, noise cancelling headsets, etc.), spend a few hundred dollars on fuel for a long trip, pay for a rental car to transport them around the area, and then complain about a $5-20 ramp fee.

Did you build, or maintain the runway or ramp? Do you maintain or clean the buildings? do you pay for the electric or other utilities for the FBO? Do you expect a restaurant to give you their services for free? At these smaller GA only airports, much of the federal funding is drying up as a result of our deficit hungry political dealings.

While some FBO's are definitely overpriced, for example, Signature in Baltimore, or Signature in Boston, most of the smaller GA airports have reasonable ramp rates, and they are only charged when you park on the ramp and actually go in to pay. 26N and OXB will only charge if you park and go in to pay, they do not charge for touch and goes. Most of the larger airports, especially around New York, will send out a landing fee to the registered owner of the airplane based on the tail number. That is from the airport operator and is in addition to any ramp fees charged by any FBO that is on the field. Every time my plane partner went to New York and landed at Essex Skypark, I got a $12.00 landing fee in the mail, sometimes months after it occurred.

Stop b1tching about small ramp fees at GA only airports. If we don't help keep them in business, they will disappear.
 
Ron Levy said:
I figure it's worth $5 to me to have their runway/ramp space available for my use. It helps offset the cost of operating the airport, and if the airport isn't financially viable for the operator, it's not going to be there when I need it.
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Aztec Driver said:
It always amazes me that people will buy a 20K-150K or more airplane, spend $30-400 a month to park it somewhere, pay 2K for insurance for the privilege to actually fly it, buy a few thousand dollars worth of "toys" (IPAD, GPS, weather gear, noise cancelling headsets, etc.), spend a few hundred dollars on fuel for a long trip, pay for a rental car to transport them around the area, and then complain about a $5-20 ramp fee.
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I don't mind paying a landing/ramp fee if it's reasonable. For my Tango (a small two seater) the $5 landing fee and/or $20-25 overnight fee is reasonable to me and I'll gladly pay it. It's the folks that charge $25 for simply stopping for a few minutes (Signature and others) or charging a fee for transiting airspace (Bedford) that drives me up a wall. Also, if I know in advance that I'm going to be charged for each touch and go, I'll go and touch elsewhere.
 
Anymouse said:
I don't mind paying a landing/ramp fee if it's reasonable. For my Tango (a small two seater) the $5 landing fee and/or $20-25 overnight fee is reasonable to me and I'll gladly pay it. It's the folks that charge $25 for simply stopping for a few minutes (Signature and others) or charging a fee for transiting airspace (Bedford) that drives me up a wall. Also, if I know in advance that I'm going to be charged for each touch and go, I'll go and touch elsewhere.
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I'm with you all the way, and Signature's fees are why I fly to FME or MTN rather than BWI when flying to Baltimore.
 
I'll complain about the fees. I don't like them. It's nickel-and-diming the customer.

In the United States, airlines pay most of what's used for airport funding, which means that airline customers cover the costs. Airlines are large revenue-producing profit making operations, whereas general aviation aircraft are not.

Most airfields in the US don't charge any kind of ramp fee or landing fee. It's nearly unheard of in the west; it's more of an east-coast thing.

I've paid some exorbitant fees around the world. In Mexico, it's not uncommon to get extorted for money, often for "insurance" that one apparently doesn't have, but which one can buy for a few hundred in cash on the spot. No receipts given. I've had that demanded at gunpoint by government officials, while a soldier stands by with an MP5.

In Kabul, we used to pay ten thousand in cash for the privilege of unloading on the ramp, and for buying fuel (fuel was extra...a LOT extra). We usually tried to avoid getting fuel (which is still the case today)...but ten grand for the privilege of sitting a few hours was steep...especially as we were paying the people who were the beneficiaries of our trip. Very tribal; one group would break down wooden pallets and keep the wood, another would take the plastic wrap off the pallets and keep that. By the time we got it down to a few thousand, we thought we were getting away with murder. Today, no cash exchanges hands; it's different, but it hasn't always been so.

I really hate Signature as an FBO. I was once given the wrong FBO in Vegas during a organ transfer. I taxied onto the ramp and shut down one engine, and learned that it was the other FBO to which we were supposed to take the organ. Signature parked a fuel truck in front of us. I notified them by radio that we were time critical, our nature, and that we needed to reposition. They refused...told us to shut down and come pay a ramp fee, or the truck wouldn't be moved. They can burn, for all I care.

FBO's at bigger airports often have ramp fees, and some of the fields process landing fees. For corporate and fractional flights, it's a daily occurrence, but those are different than Joe Schmoe in his 182. Getting slapped with fees is offensive, in my opinion, and I'll go out of my way to avoid such places.

Some may say it's just doing business. No, it's not. Most places don't charge you to park in their parking lot when entering the establishment to do business. If they did, people wouldn't park there. They'd take their business some place else.

Overnighting, perhaps...the airplane is taking up ramp space, and overnight fees aren't uncommon. Excessive fees are, however, and anyone that buys fuel certainly shouldn't be stuck with a fee.

The Europeans do user-based fees for everything from ATC services to the obligatory follow-me car that's used at each airfield. Then again, European aviation is prohibitively expensive, and it's not getting any cheaper. It would be a real shame to see aviation in the US degenerate to that state.
 
Ron Levy said:
It is nothing if you don't buy fuel. And anyway, not all airports get flowage.
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Let's see here now. Taxes build the airport. People buy fuel and the airport gets flowage from locals and some transients.

How is it that my "contribution" of a couple bucks is significant to the airport budget?

I pay the flowage at my home airport. I don't expect a transient who stops to use the "facilities" to contribute to those facilities. The vast majority of airports around here agree with me.

Ron, get real.
 
I believe the landing fee at DFW is $100.
 
Atlantics new $15 'security' fee gets me. Nothing new added...just the fee.

Ramp Fees AND Handeling Fees at the same FBO irk mee too.

I get 'Tie Down' fees sometimes. My plane doesn't even have tie down points. I ask, "did anyone tie down the plane?" to which I get told no and just pay the bill.

Signature used to be the worst. But then my company got a contract with them so now the fuel is MUCH cheaper $1 or $2 less, GPU's are free and ramp fee is only $50 instead of $299. I don't mind Signature so much now but wholeheartedly support anyone else who hates them.
 
Most of the airports in my area have overnight fees. One in particular always dinged me when I flew in for work - I would get there at 6 or 7 am, they would get there at 8 and I'd find a nice little envelope tied to my door latch at the end of the day. After complaining about it a few times they finally stopped. I just paid the first one (why whine over five bucks) but if you do this 3 or more times a week, that adds up.
 
Anymouse said:
...charging a fee for transiting airspace (Bedford)...
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How do they get away with that? I thought airport owners only owned the facilities on the ground, not the airspace.
 
Palmpilot said:
How do they get away with that? I thought airport owners only owned the facilities on the ground, not the airspace.
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Seriously, I'm not sure if they really did get away with it. There was a thread on the Red Board about Bedford and their fees. A few folks posted that they got bills from Bedford after calling the tower to transition their airspace.

I never landed at Bedford myself and don't really intend to. They sound like a bunch of donkey holes up there.
 
Anymouse said:
Seriously, I'm not sure if they really did get away with it. There was a thread on the Red Board about Bedford and their fees. A few folks posted that they got bills from Bedford after calling the tower to transition their airspace.

I never landed at Bedford myself and don't really intend to. They sound like a bunch of donkey holes up there.
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"Donkey holes"- I like that! :yesnod:
 
Anymouse said:
Economy of scale. Similar to how your 25 cents is significant to the income of a toll road.
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A toll road is a totally different model than a filling station. Flowage is a filling station and that's where the money is.
 
Clark1961 said:
Let's see here now. Taxes build the airport. People buy fuel and the airport gets flowage from locals and some transients.

How is it that my "contribution" of a couple bucks is significant to the airport budget?

I pay the flowage at my home airport. I don't expect a transient who stops to use the "facilities" to contribute to those facilities. The vast majority of airports around here agree with me.
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Get real? Next time you get to the toll booth on the New Jersey Turnpike, try telling them that only New Jersey citizens should be paying for the road, or that the New Jersey gasoline taxes should be enough (even if you didn't buy fuel in New Jersey).
 
> > I remember an airport in the LA Basin, it may have been SMO. They monitored the radio and wrote down N numbers, sent the bill. Some people would use bogus n numbers in the dark, or so the story went.


Ditto for mASSport airports. Yes, the 'M' is silent.
 
I'm not sure how I ended up with a bill from MassDOT for BEDFORD but I did. And I didn't even land there! A small landing fee seems reasonable but the $18 bill I got for just being close really gets me. It took a few weeks but they cleared the bill.
Westerly has a small landing fee. I entered through the passenger terminal, sought out the local FBO, and put my $5 in the bucket. The agents comment was "I didn't have to". I would much rather drop $5 than not be able to lnd there next moth.
Last I knew, Nantucket ws $6. I've been in and out of there 3 times without being charged. YMMV.
If it keeps them in business, I am all for it.
 
rainsux said:
> > I remember an airport in the LA Basin, it may have been SMO. They monitored the radio and wrote down N numbers, sent the bill. Some people would use bogus n numbers in the dark, or so the story went.


Ditto for mASSport airports. Yes, the 'M' is silent.
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M*******s? ;)
 
SkyVoyager said:
I often like to just go up and fly. Sometimes I'll just fly to an airport, land and take right off again (for the fun of it).

I haven't done this before, but I have a question regarding landing fees. Over here on the mid-Atlantic coast, we seem to like landing fees (OXB, 26N, etc.). If you do as I stated above, is the proper etiquette to pay the fee? Or, is there an assumption that by parking the fee would be necessary?

I will do whatever is correct, but I had not considered this until now.

Thanks for the input!
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Not sure if this will answer your question or if it's the same scenario, but the only time I had to deal with a possible aiport fee, I called the aiport.

I recently planned a training solo flight; one of the legs hand a landing at an airport (KSBD) whose A/FD mentioned "fees". But the A/FD had no other details. I looked the airport online and sure enough on their page there was a PDF that detailed the fees for GA as well as commercial aircraft.

But it did not specify how the payment would be made. So I called the listed airport number; eventually i left a message for the aiport manager who, after returning my call, explained that there were no "landing fees" for GA aircraft (I guess taht's different than the "tie down" fees that I read about). Anyways, the airport manager was very helpful and offered to tell me anything else I needed to know about the airport.

(I actually wanted to know how I could pay the landing fee - had there been one - in advance so that I would not have to stop the airplane and park it. Ideally I would have wanted to do a "stop and go").
 
Ron Levy said:
Get real? Next time you get to the toll booth on the New Jersey Turnpike, try telling them that only New Jersey citizens should be paying for the road, or that the New Jersey gasoline taxes should be enough (even if you didn't buy fuel in New Jersey).
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Yup, get real. We're discussing airports, not toll roads.
 
Clark1961 said:
Yup, get real. We're discussing airports, not toll roads.
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Not to mention that only in crowded multi-state areas do toll roads really do well with the voters and normal folk. We have exactly one here, most folk are POed that Arab investors own it. And anyone from outside the Metro area avoids it.

You folks who choose to live where it's completely overcrowded have interesting views on what folks think who have some space to breathe. I could care less about toll roads, they're not necessary here. HOV and Lexus Lanes **** me off too. We all built the highway, just add a lane and everyone sits in traffic like everyone else.

Around here most of the HOV lanes are used to make it look like our god-awful city bus system could run on time if they even tried. It takes almost two hours to go 20 miles across this city by public transport. And the most obvious public transport, needed now since DIA opened, is of course, a train to the airport, but it's been blocked by the cab Unions here for the entire time. Maybe rightly so, without airport runs this city wouldn't have any cabs. The economics would never support them.
 
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