Entry from Cruising Airspeed to a Constant Airspeed Climbs

[PhantomCougar]

I have been browsing through the 2007 Instrument Flying Handbook and on page 5-14 they talk about climb entries:

"To enter a constant airspeed climb from cruising airspeed, raise the miniature aircraft to the approximate nose-high indication for the predetermined climb speed.........Power may be advanced to the climb power setting simultaneously with the pitch change."

Then two paragraphs later, they talk about the same maneuver:

"To enter a constant airspeed climb, first complete the airspeed reduction from cruise airspeed to climb speed in straight-and-level flight"

So... one way says to raise the nose first and then let the airspeed drop from an increase in pitch... the other way says to reduce power first and then let the airspeed drop. What am I missing here, why offer two different approaches for entering a constant airspeed climb from level cruise airspeed without mentioning why there are two different approaches? Maybe they are both right but it would be nice if they said both methods are acceptable. Maybe they are two different manuevers and I haven't been able to catch on to the difference. I've read this section over and over and am not picking it up.

 

[tonycondon]

i cant see any reason why not to use the excess airspeed to start the climb.

 

[Areeda]

Maybe you could give us page numbers.

If you are looking at the 2 methods on page 5-14 I think it might have to do with the statement "Climb entries on partial panel are more easily and accurately controlled if entering the maneuver from climbing speed."

Joe

 

[PhantomCougar]

Maybe you could give us page numbers.

If you are looking at the 2 methods on page 5-14 I think it might have to do with the statement "Climb entries on partial panel are more easily and accurately controlled if entering the maneuver from climbing speed."

Joe

Correct, page 5-14.

That is pretty much the only difference that I could tell, the partial panel issue. With full panel, I always have increased pitch first and then added power when airspeed dropped to the climbing airspeed as Tony mentioned.

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing it wrong.

 

[EdFred]

My climbs are always a pitch and power at the same time method. Yoke comes back, throttle goes forward.

 

[TMetzinger]

The second method works better for partial panel, as you will reduce power, and TRIM to your new airspeed. Then, adding power will result in a climb at the trimmed speed, so you won't have to worry as much about judging your pitch attitude. In partial panel flying, I think it's safest to adjust one thing (power or an axis) at a time.

 

[poadeleted20]

We teach simultaneous application of climb power and rotation to climb pitch, followed by retrimming for climb airspeed. I can't imagine why one would want to pitch to climb attitude, wait for climb speed, and then add power -- it's just inefficient.

 

[TMetzinger]

We teach simultaneous application of climb power and rotation to climb pitch, followed by retrimming for climb airspeed. I can't imagine why one would want to pitch to climb attitude, wait for climb speed, and then add power -- it's just inefficient.

And how do you determine climb pitch when partial panel?

As I read it, what you just said matches the IFH example one (for full panel).

Example 2 (partial panel, and I assume this means no AI), I read as an instruction to REDUCE power, trim to maintain altitude at climb speed, then increase power to result in a climb at the trimmed airspeed.

 

[EdFred]

And how do you determine climb pitch when partial panel?

As I read it, what you just said matches the IFH example one (for full panel).

Example 2 (partial panel, and I assume this means no AI), I read as an instruction to REDUCE power, trim to maintain altitude at climb speed, then increase power to result in a climb at the trimmed airspeed.

Doesn't matter whether PP or FP. Who cares about climb pitch, airpseed is the key. Add power pull back till you hit your airspeed, release pressure to hold the speed, retrim. No need to even look at the AI even if you are full panel. I don't. I want 80KIAS climb, ease back on the yoke while increasing power till I hit 80, ease off add trim.

Reducing power, maintaining level until desired speed, then increasing power = bass ackwards.

 

[TMetzinger]

Ed, I'll try that sometime either in a sim or with a safety pilot. Still seems to me that changing one thing at a time while partial panel in IMC is safest, least likely to induce vertigo, etc.

One could, I suppose, leave the power right where it is, and then slowly adjust the trim until you reach climb speed (only changing one thing), then add power to maintain climb rate. That would keep one from "wasting" energy by slowing down first.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm with Ed -- add pitch with power and adjust pitch for speed, even partial panel. If you don't have a good feel for roughly how much pull to use, you aren't ready for an IR ride.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Keep in mind that your airspeed change doesn't have to be instantaneous, either...add the climb power, give your trim a tweak of pitch-up, and let things stabilize. If they stabilize at too high an airspeed or too low a cimb rate, give pitch and trim another tweak, and see what happens. You'll probably get it established within fairly short order.

Fly safe!

David

 

[poadeleted20]

One additional point -- if you're cruising a fixed pitch prop up near redline (often happens above 5000 feet), adding full power before raising the nose can overspeed the engine. It takes some coordination of pitch and power application to avoid that. Of course, this isn't a problem with constant speed props.

 

[midlifeflyer]

One additional point -- if you're cruising a fixed pitch prop up near redline (often happens above 5000 feet)?

My airport is at 6000' and we have trouble getting most fixed pitch prop light singles to redline in anything but a descent. That phenomenon with max MP dropping with density altitude? Applies to max RPM in fixed pitch props also.

 

[jwriteclub]

I have got to say that unless I am really, really comfortable with the situation, I try to only ever change one thing at a time while flying partial panel. Then if I don't like what I did I know exactly how to fix it.

~ Christopher

 

[poadeleted20]

My airport is at 6000' and we have trouble getting most fixed pitch prop light singles to redline in anything but a descent. That phenomenon with max MP dropping with density altitude? Applies to max RPM in fixed pitch props also.

Don't know what you're flying, but it's a significant issue in pretty much all Grummans. At cruise altitudes in the 5000-8000 range, 75% power is very close to redline (especially if you have a climb prop or power enhancements like HC pistons or PowerFlow exhaust), but you still have an inch or so of throttle left. Firewall it before you get the nose up, and you're through the redline.

 

[KennyFlys]

I was going back through my lesson plans and remembered this thread. It was further triggered by my own flight this morning heading home in turbulence. With regard to posts by Ron (#7) and Ed (#9), the one reason I can think of you don't want to pitch up from a fast cruise speed is being in moderate turbulence. One should be at Va already but we know a lot of folks don't pay attention to that rule.

Suddenly pitching up is the reason you should be at Va if in turbulence. Why unnecessarily aggravate the plane into a possible stall or over-stress? Gradually pitch up to Vy then add power.

Just my peon $0.02.

 

[poadeleted20]

I was going back through my lesson plans and remembered this thread. It was further triggered by my own flight this morning heading home in turbulence. With regard to posts by Ron (#7) and Ed (#9), the one reason I can think of you don't want to pitch up from a fast cruise speed is being in moderate turbulence. One should be at Va already but we know a lot of folks don't pay attention to that rule.

I wasn't suggesting a 4-g snatch pull. Even in moderate turbulence at high cruise, you ain't gonna break off the tail by any non-abrupt pull from level to climb that doesn't pull the passengers' cheeks down to their chins.

 

[KennyFlys]

I wasn't suggesting a 4-g snatch pull. Even in moderate turbulence at high cruise, you ain't gonna break off the tail by any non-abrupt pull from level to climb that doesn't pull the passengers' cheeks down to their chins.

I understand. I was just thinking how some do fly. Heck, I've gotten into such a habit of "small changes" that I felt like I was abusing the poor RG to kick in enough left rudder for a cross-control stall. But then, the untrained are going to make such abrupt maneuvers and that's something I'll have to be ready for. Lest I walk away from every flight looking...