Engine shutdown in flight

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Came up in an other thread. I've wanted to do it to see what it's like and actually go through an airborne restart so if it ever happens it won't be new to me. Ive read that if it quits from fuel starvation, then giving it fuel again, it's no big deal. It's been described as a "non event."
 
So read the other thread? Why are you starting another on the same? :dunno:
 
Yeah...if you kill it with running a tank dry it takes 5ish seconds for it to start back up again. That's a long ass 5 seconds when you're at 500' and should have still had an hour left in the tank though!
 
I'm sure the phrase 'he just wanted to see what it would be like' has been used on more than one epitaph.

I'm not suggesting you're going to get taken out in a descending fireball if you momentarily kill your engine, but why introduce an unnecessary failure mode in flight.
 
Ether start putting the mixture forward again if that's how you killed it, or switch to a better tank with boost pumps if needed and equipped, most POHs mention these things, and most planes also have the procedure placarded
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'm sure the phrase 'he just wanted to see what it would be like' has been used on more than one epitaph.

I'm not suggesting you're going to get taken out in a descending fireball if you momentarily kill your engine, but why introduce an unnecessary failure mode in flight.
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Because if it happens for real, you will be better prepared to recognize it and deal with it.
 
I would assumed you would want to do this training withing gliding distance from an airport?
 
Running a tank dry has not been a big deal in any aircraft where I have done that. Though, I wouldn't recommend doing it at 50 feet AGL with a fuel selector that you can't quite reach.


Some people do it for fun


And, there is the option to not start the engine in the first place

 
luvflyin said:
Came up in an other thread. I've wanted to do it to see what it's like and actually go through an airborne restart so if it ever happens it won't be new to me. Ive read that if it quits from fuel starvation, then giving it fuel again, it's no big deal. It's been described as a "non event."
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Its a non event if you anticipate it (like running the tank dry ) or if you have enough altitude. I did it with my instructor in C152 during the training at 5000 Ft and right on the top of the runway. That was a non event for sure
 
mscard88 said:
So read the other thread? Why are you starting another on the same? :dunno:
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because it started on a different subject. someone not interested in that subject might never see this. I know that threads tend take on a life of their own after a page or so but I'd like to see as many ideas as can about this
 
midcap said:
I would assumed you would want to do this training withing gliding distance from an airport?
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of course. and not just any airport. long runway, not busy, surrounded by grass and stuff, not buildings and stuff
 
One reason we don't practice this is because there is not hardly a noticeable difference between pulling the throttle back to Idle and pulling the mixture out to Idle cut off. It turns out what we practice of just pulling the engine back to idle to simulate a power failure is a very good simulation of an actual power failure.

The only reason to really try a practicing an actual power failure is to see how hard it is to stop the prop as is recommended by some, what you will learn is that in most single engine aircraft it isn't practical to stop the prop after a power failure. Then you are back to just simulating a power failures by pulling the throttle back to idle.

If you still want to see the above for yourself, ask a few instructors if they are willing to demonstrate it. Many won't, but a few will, but will do it where that is a Plan B,C and D if Plan A of restarting the engine fails.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
And how many times have you heard of or read about problems with restarts from the guys doing multiengine training? My POH clearly states that I should expect a problem with a restart since the mixture will be too rich.

Another way to think about it is how you will explain it to the FAA and insurance folks...if your explanation starts with "guys on the internet said it would be okay" then you might just have a problem with their reception of the explanation.
 
Clark1961 said:
And how many times have you heard of or read about problems with restarts from the guys doing multiengine training? My POH clearly states that I should expect a problem with a restart since the mixture will be too rich.

Another way to think about it is how you will explain it to the FAA and insurance folks...if your explanation starts with "guys on the internet said it would be okay" then you might just have a problem with their reception of the explanation.
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Why would mixture be too rich? If shut down is due to no fuel then on restart you are adding the fuel and going from too lean to richer condition. It should start somewhere before you go too rich.
 
genna said:
Why would mixture be too rich? If shut down is due to no fuel then on restart you are adding the fuel and going from too lean to richer condition. It should start somewhere before you go too rich.
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It would be too rich because it died from fuel starvation (running a tank dry) and switching to the tank with fuel in it. If you know more than the guys who wrote the POH then by all means write to Piper and explain it to them. I'm sure they will issue the POH update shortly and I will wait anxiously by the mailbox for delivery.

Thank you eversomuch for your keen insight and I look forward to any future submissions you may offer. POA is truly a wonderful place with some much knowledge and understanding.

(for the sarcasm impaired, yes this is a sarcastic response to a post which ignores the stated source of an operating caution and pretends to know more than the POH)
 
genna said:
Why would mixture be too rich? If shut down is due to no fuel then on restart you are adding the fuel and going from too lean to richer condition. It should start somewhere before you go too rich.
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You can flood them at altitude just like you can on the ground. I had a student who dumped a lot of fuel into the engine at altitude while trying to get it to start. It finally went, but it took some coaxing.
 
mondtster said:
You can flood them at altitude just like you can on the ground. I had a student who dumped a lot of fuel into the engine at altitude while trying to get it to start. It finally went, but it took some coaxing.
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I understand at altitude, but we're not talking about that here... besides, nobody is forcing you to go full rich. Just add some mixture back.
 
Clark1961 said:
It would be too rich because it died from fuel starvation (running a tank dry) and switching to the tank with fuel in it. If you know more than the guys who wrote the POH then by all means write to Piper and explain it to them. I'm sure they will issue the POH update shortly and I will wait anxiously by the mailbox for delivery.

Thank you eversomuch for your keen insight and I look forward to any future submissions you may offer. POA is truly a wonderful place with some much knowledge and understanding.

(for the sarcasm impaired, yes this is a sarcastic response to a post which ignores the stated source of an operating caution and pretends to know more than the POH)
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Nice one. What are you? 10? I really asked a simple genuine question. I didn't question your POH or your statement's veracity. Just want to know why it happens.
 
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