Engine monitor benefits

Ed Haywood

Ed Haywood

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Big Ed
Starting to get the itch to buy a new panel gadget for my Decathlon. Seems like the big void is an engine monitor. Everyone else has one. I am feeling left out.

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I'm not too worked up about leaning. Never read a Mike Busch article and don't really want to. My single EGT is adequate for my ROP technique.

So, other than leaning, what is the main benefit of an engine monitor? Will it enhance safety by providing early warning of internal damage? I could definitely justify that.

My eyes are getting older, so I like modern displays that effectively use color. The Aerospace Logic appeals to me, and the price is competitive with a JPI 700 or EI UBG. Also intrigued by the Insight G2. Thoughts?

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My plane came with an Insight G2, which is overkill for a 140 (I don't really care about EGT or fuel flow), but the per-cylinder CHT and carb temp are nice.
 
The biggest benefit is when something is wrong with the engine, you’ll have a pretty good idea where to look as oppose to telling your mechanic it’s not make power, the latter will be much more expensive as the mechanic will have to go through and check parts of the engine.
 
GeorgeC said:
My plane came with an Insight G2, which is overkill for a 140 (I don't really care about EGT or fuel flow), but the per-cylinder CHT and carb temp are nice.
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The Insight G2 is the other one I am very interested in. I think I would like FF for XC planning. The only thing that concerns me is the size of the display. Seems like some of those numbers would be itty bitty on a 2 1/4" screen. Do you have any problem reading it?

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MooneyDriver78 said:
The biggest benefit is when something is wrong with the engine, you’ll have a pretty good idea where to look as oppose to telling your mechanic it’s not make power, the latter will be much more expensive as the mechanic will have to go through and check parts of the engine.
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How do you know something is wrong ... CHT is excessive?
 
I think recording engine monitors are great pieces of equipment. It helps a lot in troubleshooting, especially in those random only every so often events. I recommend setting the recording interval to whatever the lowest setting is (typically 1s) and regularly download the data. I personally use Savvy Analysis for the data storage and do recommend it. The free tier is plenty for most folks, but it is a convenient way to send the data to others for review and to keep it for historical purposes for comparing. Feel like you are burning more gas or not hitting the same parameters as you used to? Easily go back and look at other flights and compare. Notice something odd that goes away after a few moments, take a close look on the ground, even send a link to your mechanic and get their opinion. Do you need one to fly? No, of course not, but they are very useful/helpful, IMHO.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I think I would like FF for XC planning
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..that, which some planes have as an analog, and the per cylinder CHT/EGT are nice. Helps you spot a cylinder that always runs hot (or cold) and may help you pre-emptively troubleshoot something
 
Ed Haywood said:
The Insight G2 is the other one I am very interested in. I think I would like FF for XC planning. The only thing that concerns me is the size of the display. Seems like some of those numbers would be itty bitty on a 2 1/4" screen. Do you have any problem reading it?
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No problems reading it, but mine's on the left side of the panel, like under where your tach is.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Can you elaborate on that?
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Cylinders are not doing much work until more than 45HP is demanded from them. That is also the break point for fuel injection on the legacy airplanes. Injection is far less forgiving than carburetors for leaning and FI engines are commonly ran LOP where better monitoring is required.
 
Clip4 said:
Cylinders are not doing much work until more than 45HP is demanded from them. That is also the break point for fuel injection on the legacy airplanes. Injection is far less forgiving than carburetors for leaning and FI engines are commonly ran LOP where better monitoring is required.
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Thanks. What do you mean by "break point"? Mine is FI, if that matters.
 
I have a JPI EDM 830. EGT AND CHT are only part of it. Mine monitors oil pressure, oil temperature, carb temp, manifold pressure, RPM, fuel flow, fuel pressure, battery voltage, altitude, tach time, airspeed and GPS coordinates, and it logs every parameter every 6 seconds. You can download all of this to a thumb drive and graph it on a PC. If something goes out of tolerance, it will flash it on the LCD. I am so glad I got this, it let's me examine dozens of parameters.
 
Tantalum said:
..that, which some planes have as an analog, and the per cylinder CHT/EGT are nice. Helps you spot a cylinder that always runs hot (or cold) and may help you pre-emptively troubleshoot something
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Would the fuel flow make a significant difference in how I fly, or is it mostly a curiosity?
 
Ed Haywood said:
Would the fuel flow make a significant difference in how I fly, or is it mostly a curiosity?
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I tend to do slightly longer flights, at least for piston GA planes, and I'm usually near gross so it does help me with good fuel planning and management..

Leaning by feel is fine, but if you're finding that the fuel flow numbers are dramatically off from what they should be in the POH it could be an indication of something else going on as well
 
Ed Haywood said:
Would the fuel flow make a significant difference in how I fly, or is it mostly a curiosity?
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I have a JPI 830. Being able to see fuel flow helps me get into line with performance charts.
For instance if my POH states 5000’ 23”/2300rpm has a fuel flow of 14.2, but I look down and see 16.5, I know I can start fine tuning.
It’s funny, EGT will almost always follow in suit to be near my prime parameters.
I love the JPI-830, it’s just flat out simple.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Would the fuel flow make a significant difference in how I fly, or is it mostly a curiosity?
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Fuel flow is also used to calculate the required fuel to the next waypoint or the destination. It also tells how actual fuel remaining if you reset it when you top off. Lots of good stuff can be calculated from the parameters!
 
Joe_B1 said:
I have a JPI EDM 830... You can download all of this to a thumb drive and graph it on a PC. . . it let's me examine dozens of parameters.
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What program do you use to see parameters?

or are you using Savvy?

I’d like to peek at mine without a savvy commitment.
 
My JPI 711 has helped me level my temps but the most important instrument in my panel is my FS-450 fuel scanner. I might not appreciate the FS as much without having the 711 but these days I rarely look at my temps because I know how to lean using my FS. I’d probably still advise guys to add a full engine monitor but the fuel scanner is a VERY close second. And FWIW? I couldn’t be happier with JPI. I have a full meal deal G3X Touch in my Cub. The EDM-711 and FS-450 are better as engine instruments go.
 
I had a JPI 730 installed with my overhaul. Glad I did, I was amazed at the CHT's I was seeing and I'm confident I would have gone through a few cylinders before the next TBO. Before the 730 all I had was the relative EGT on one cylinder which was woefully inadequate...
 
I'd imagine a Decathlon is not the right place for an engine analyzer, but if the cash is burning a hole in your wallet... one benefit I haven't seen mentioned:

when you're flying over water, an undercast, at night, or near those mountains and the engine goes "auto-rough", it's nice to look at the nice and even bars and reassure yourself that the donk is still doing what it's supposed to be doing up front, and not coming unglued.

Worth 2-3 grand? "...eh..."

Mine pays for itself in fuel savings. The difference between "rich" "sorta leaned" and "precisely leaned" for me amounts to tens of dollars per hour. It amortizes itself out quick. In a pure aerobatic happy-fun-machine like a Decathlon?... would be hard for ME to rationalize the upgrade.

$0.02 :)
 
Recently had a partially plugged injector, result essentially was that the #1 cylinder was running at Peak when all the rest were full rich. Only way I might have know without an engine monitor would have been if it got rough when leaning, But actually turned out that if Leaned to about 100ROP #1 cylinder was running about 100 Lean of peak. Don’t know if or how long it might have taken to be a problem but fair chance it would have never been detected without the engine monitor.

From another thread, recording monitors are also awesome for troubleshooting what that engine did for 20 seconds but thing didn’t do it again.

Brian
CFIIGI/ASEL
 
Ed Haywood said:
Starting to get the itch to buy a new panel gadget for my Decathlon. Seems like the big void is an engine monitor. Everyone else has one. I am feeling left out.

View attachment 100471

I'm not too worked up about leaning. Never read a Mike Busch article and don't really want to. My single EGT is adequate for my ROP technique.

So, other than leaning, what is the main benefit of an engine monitor? Will it enhance safety by providing early warning of internal damage? I could definitely justify that.

My eyes are getting older, so I like modern displays that effectively use color. The Aerospace Logic appeals to me, and the price is competitive with a JPI 700 or EI UBG. Also intrigued by the Insight G2. Thoughts?

View attachment 100472
Click to expand...
If you don’t want to read about it then, no, an engine monitor won’t do you any good.

But if you’re willing to put some time into learning it, it can nearly pay for itself in saved troubleshooting time. Last year, I taxied up to a shop and said, “I need a new spark plug, top #3.” Without the engine analyzer, I would’ve said “it’s a little rough.”

Proper combustion requires fuel, air, and spark. A multi-point engine analyzer helps with early diagnosis of problems in all three.

As to which model, get the biggest and most colorful one you can afford that’ll fit in your panel. I like the rectangular ones because they generally have more screen area.
 
In addition to safety, there's also the money aspect. Knowing fuel flow will help you save some, the difference between 12 gph and 10 gph is $10/hour. Keeping your cylinder temps in the high 300's will promote not having to do an overhaul nearly as quickly. Both of these will help you fly more often.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
If you don’t want to read about it then, no, an engine monitor won’t do you any good.

But if you’re willing to put some time into learning it, it can nearly pay for itself in saved troubleshooting time. Last year, I taxied up to a shop and said, “I need a new spark plug, top #3.” Without the engine analyzer, I would’ve said “it’s a little rough.”

Proper combustion requires fuel, air, and spark. A multi-point engine analyzer helps with early diagnosis of problems in all three.

As to which model, get the biggest and most colorful one you can afford that’ll fit in your panel. I like the rectangular ones because they generally have more screen area.
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Before the 275's were available, I opted for the 830. That required the shop to make a rectangular cutout in my panel. If the 275 was available back then, I would have preferred to just have them fill a round blank instead of having to cut. I think it would have made a cleaner looking install. With that being said, I do like the larger display of the 830, if something goes sour, it is in your face obvious.
 
I fly a carbureted 4-cyl O-320-D3G (160 hp) in my Warrior II. When I replaced the engine I installed an AeroSpace Logic 4-cyl CHT-only monitor. Installation was trivial, I did it myself under supervision.

http://www.aerospacelogic.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=64

For my simple, VFR spamcan I didn't think anything more complicated was needed.
I like it. I simply use it to monitor engine warmup and climb/cruise CHTs keeping them between 250F and 400F. At 380F on any cylinder I begin amelioration. I lean according to Lycoming's instructions, i.e., lean to stumble; enrichen to smoothness.

My eyes have also aged. I installed it in an empty round under my yoke shaft, left of the ignition switch. It is in sight, and with the uncluttered screen quite readable.
 
I have a EI “bar graph” style display… An EGT/CHT gauge is nice for cross country flying (leaning) and quick engine status.

Story time:
I once had a rough engine after takeoff, a quick look at the engine monitor told me I had one cylinder not making heat. Returned to the airport with a rough engine. The engine monitor didn’t change the outcome of the flight, but I was able to explain to the mechanic what I saw, made diagnostics / fix easier and I was on my way in just an hour (had a clogged injector)

now it’s part of my Run-up that I check it’s making heat in all cylinders during run-up.
 
I have the JPI 900. I basically just use it for monitoring RMP, MP, fuel flow, and temperatures. It was installed on the plane when I bought it. I know it can do a lot more then I'm using it for, I just haven't taken the time to figure it all out.
 
Martin Pauly said:
No need for an engine monitor then. If you have no interest in learning what all the numbers mean, why pay money to display the numbers?
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just a bunch of colorful whizbangs and doodads cluttering up a legacy panel. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
 
CT583 said:
just a bunch of colorful whizbangs and doodads cluttering up a legacy panel. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
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Yeah, but it gives you something to watch when you are going down in a cornfield!
 
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Ordered August 10th, shipped today. Just under the wire for the $400 rebate. I don't have a constant speed prop so the MP will be fuel flow instead and fuel flow as depicted will be fuel pressure.
 
ChopAndDrop said:
I once had a rough engine after takeoff, a quick look at the engine monitor told me I had one cylinder not making heat. Returned to the airport with a rough engine. The engine monitor didn’t change the outcome of the flight
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That is pretty persuasive to me. "Rough" is subjective. We've all pressed forward with a little roughness while we fiddled with the mixture and power settings, thinking it might smooth out. A cold cylinder is objective data and drives an unambiguous conclusion.

schmookeeg said:
In a pure aerobatic happy-fun-machine like a Decathlon?... would be hard for ME to rationalize the upgrade.
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I currently use my Decathlon about 50/50 for XC travel and Acro. My fuel burn rates have been quite close to the performance tables in my POH when leaning off my single EGT. Would I get added fuel savings from a monitor?

schmookeeg said:
Worth 2-3 grand? "...eh..."
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That's why I'm leaning towards one of the smaller gauges with limited functions rather than going all in on a full functioned EMS that consolidates all my inputs. $2K I can rationalize, 4-5K not so much.
 
Mine was just over $3700. Every time I look at your avatar Ed, I wonder if a couple of chicks have doubled up on a dude like you. :):)
 
Ed Haywood said:
I currently use my Decathlon about 50/50 for XC travel and Acro. My fuel burn rates have been quite close to the performance tables in my POH when leaning off my single EGT. Would I get added fuel savings from a monitor?
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Fuel savings is possible by running more accurately on the lean side -- IF you want to run the LOP slower power settings -- on a Lyc 360, I have no idea if there are tangible savings to be had. Someone with experience in one will need to chime in. I ran my Lycs ROP generally, even on the IO360 Super Mouse that we installed an Insight G3 in, so no savings resulted there.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Mine was just over $3700. Every time I look at your avatar Ed, I wonder if a couple of chicks have doubled up on a dude like you. :):)
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Sadly no, as I do not have a million dollars, at least not liquid. But easily my favorite movie line ever. My wife does not think it is nearly as funny.
 
Ed,
I can say that I have realized true fuel savings with my JPI.
When I lean by reference to the installed EGT meter, I did the same lean point and would burn about 15-16gph in my standard cruise. With this, I can effectively shave off 2+ gph.

Being carbureted, having the carb temp is a great addition for those chilly days.

during the warm up, I can watch my oil temp and pressure equalize once the vernatherm opens and I get oil flowing through the cooler. Call me crazy, but I don’t take off until oil is flowing through the entire system.

Oh, and being subject to a loss of power over the desert, I love having a volt meter right in front of me.
If any of the parameters is off, it flashes and let’s me know what’s up.

The 830 really gives me peace of mind as it is backed up by Cessna gauges so I can cross reference for accuracy.

so far, best money spent
 
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