Engine Failure During Slip

[luvflyin]

I guess you never fly with passengers.

There is definitely a cost.

I never want to be reluctant to slip the airplane if it's a good solution to a situation. I brief passengers on what it is, what it looks and feels like and announce it when I'm going to do it. Got a "cool" do it again once. Besides Glidepath adjustment there other times when it comes in handy. Weather, airspace or traffic has held you up and you need to start down late. I use them routinely during descents to scan for traffic. Lifting a wing and moving the cowl over for a few seconds works wonders in checking blind spots. If the Tower requests a Short Approach, why have to say "unable" when a perfectly routine and safe maneuver like a slip can make it happen. My recommendation to anyone who does not see them as routine and safe should buy an hour with an experienced CFI and learn slips.

 

[RoscoeT]

I haven't flown aerobatic, but I've watched it. I'd bet you could show me everything I think I know about flying is wrong

It's not that hard. From a slip, if you pull the stick way back sharply instead of a slow creep back, many airplanes will snap roll/spin from a slip. Most airplanes will not spin from a slip if you slowly pull the stick/yoke to the stop.

 

[Henning]

It's not that hard. From a slip, if you pull the stick way back sharply instead of a slow creep back, many airplanes will snap roll/spin from a slip. Most airplanes will not spin from a slip if you slowly pull the stick/yoke to the stop.

You won't break into a spin until the low wing comes over the top, you'll be in a skid before then.

 

[luvflyin]

I'm pretty sure he knows that as evidenced by the smiley.

Got it now. Smileys, winking smileys, sarcasm radar. Why did come up when I tapped on the one with a lightbulb coming on. Hmm. Maybe Internet chat code and smileys should meet the foreign language requirement for College.

 

[luvflyin]

Got it now. Smileys, winking smileys, sarcasm radar. Why did come up when I tapped on the one with a lightbulb coming on. Hmm. Maybe Internet chat code and smileys should meet the foreign language requirement for College.

Sheesh. When I was typing the last post and tapped the smiley it says
Not until after I submit reply does it show up as the smiley. Is there an icon for "Can't teach an old dog new tricks". Lol

 

[luvflyin]

Sheesh again. I manually type in )idea) and the smiley comes up after submitting

 

[timwinters]

Click "disable smilies in text" below the text box then you're replying.

 

[bullwinkle]

It's not that hard. From a slip, if you pull the stick way back sharply instead of a slow creep back, many airplanes will snap roll/spin from a slip. Most airplanes will not spin from a slip if you slowly pull the stick/yoke to the stop.

Yeah, I think "a slipping airplane won't spin" is incorrect. what does happen is to get into the spin the low wing has to go over the top, which takes a long time compared to the same spin entry in a skid where the already-low wing drops out from under you.

You just have a lot longer to see things going wrong in the slipped airplane and fix it before it becomes an extinction level event.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, this is how I understand it.

 

[luvflyin]

Yeah, I think "a slipping airplane won't spin" is incorrect. what does happen is to get into the spin the low wing has to go over the top, which takes a long time compared to the same spin entry in a skid where the already-low wing drops out from under you.

You just have a lot longer to see things going wrong in the slipped airplane and fix it before it becomes an extinction level event.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, this is how I understand it.

That's how I understand it. I think it may still be correct to say "a slipping airplane won't spin" though. It has to "unslip" before it spins.

 

[MAKG1]

Yeah, I think "a slipping airplane won't spin" is incorrect. what does happen is to get into the spin the low wing has to go over the top, which takes a long time compared to the same spin entry in a skid where the already-low wing drops out from under you.

You just have a lot longer to see things going wrong in the slipped airplane and fix it before it becomes an extinction level event.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, this is how I understand it.

Depends on the airplane. It's true enough in a 172.

Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfwLglHEYvQ

The slipping stalls are at the end, after the 2:45 mark. He's inverted before you can say "nose down."

 

[bullwinkle]

That's how I understand it. I think it may still be correct to say "a slipping airplane won't spin" though. It has to "unslip" before it spins.

Fair enough...potato, potahto.

 

[whifferdill]

Depends on the airplane. It's true enough in a 172.

Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfwLglHEYvQ

The slipping stalls are at the end, after the 2:45 mark. He's inverted before you can say "nose down."

That's a regular accelerated stall. With the slipped rudder input, it basically snap rolls to the right. Most airplanes will snap over if you do an accelerated stall with some slipped rudder input. There are lots of ways to technically spin from a slip. But let's consider the most likely context of "spinning from a slip". When is a pilot most likely to slip deliberately? On approach to landing. If you're approaching to land and need to slip, you're likely power off, flying around 1.3Vso. I've sure not flown every aircraft type, but from a full deflection slip to land configuration, none of the types I've tried it in will spin if you slowly pull the stick fully aft while holding the slipped inputs - even the Pitts.

This is the situation many pilots are afraid of - getting "too slow" during a slip to land for fear of stall/spinning. Unless you really yank the yoke/stick back quickly with too much speed, or add power, or release the aileron before releasing rudder (that's a skid), most airplanes are very resistant to stall/spinning from a steep power off slip from normal approach speed. YMMV, depending on aircraft type. Know your airplane. But I guess lots of people don't really know how their aircraft will behave due to fear or inexperience with spins. Spin training is highly recommended.

So I've failed to spin from a "slip to land" in a few different types, and seen videos of other types failing to spin as well from this condition. I'd be more interested in videos showing this happen. Just set it up properly. I recall a video where a Cherokee pilot adamantly argued that his plane would spin from a slip. He went and shot video. He got it to break and roll....by releasing the aileron while still holding rudder instead of continuing to hold the slipped inputs. So all he did is prove that a Cherokee will spin from a skid.

 

[nimdabew]

It depends on the plane, I'm not looking at panel, I'm looking out the window, but the threshold moves up in the windscreen rather quickly and I can get the nose back down.

I do this with students as an alternative to forward slips. I usually lose mroe altitude quicker too. It is about 1800-2000 f/m in a C172 if you hold about 55-60 KIAS and let the stall warning horn do its thing.

 

[RoscoeT]

I do this with students as an alternative to forward slips. I usually lose mroe altitude quicker too. It is about 1800-2000 f/m in a C172 if you hold about 55-60 KIAS and let the stall warning horn do its thing.

C172, 2000 FPM @ 55-60 KIAS?? I think you have a big typo somewhere. Nowhere near the stall and that kind of descent rate at 55-60 KT.

 

[dtuuri]

Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfwLglHEYvQ

The slipping stalls are at the end, after the 2:45 mark. He's inverted before you can say "nose down."

That's a regular accelerated stall.

A "regular" accelerated stall would have been coordinated and likely pitched forward without rolling into a spin due to the slip.

dtuuri

 

[MAKG1]

C172, 2000 FPM @ 55-60 KIAS?? I think you have a big typo somewhere. Nowhere near the stall and that kind of descent rate at 55-60 KT.

And the stall warning horn won't go off much above 50 KIAS if you're flying straight (unaccelerated).

Leaving the stall horn on for an extended period is not the safest method for descent. One strong gust can ruin your whole day.

And the controls get a bit mushy in true slow flight.

I can get 2000 FPM off a 182 at 140 knots with a fine pitch, idle prop, and no flaps, much safer than that. And they slow down in a hurry in that configuration if you level off. I did it descending from over terrain to a close-by airport just last week.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

This has become a song without end. If you were trained to do slips correctly when you learned to fly and have used them effectively since then this is a big yawn. They are, as someone else mentioned another tool in the tool box. I've used them for almost fifty years , sometimes just to practice them, once to save my airplane, a Stearman, when the engine quit at 1500 feet. This is why they were taught in the first place. I've never seen or heard of anyone dying because of a slip. It was a very run of the mill lesson as were spins some years back.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

This has become a song without end. If you were trained to do slips correctly when you learned to fly and have used them effectively since then this is a big yawn. They are, as someone else mentioned another tool in the tool box. I've used them for almost fifty years , sometimes just to practice them, once to save my airplane, a Stearman, when the engine quit at 1500 feet. This is why they were taught in the first place. I've never seen or heard of anyone dying because of a slip. It was a very run of the mill lesson as were spins some years back.

"As the runway drew near, it became apparent that the aircraft was coming in too high and fast, raising the danger of running off the runway before it could be stopped. The lack of hydraulic pressure prevented flap/slat extension which would have, under normal landing conditions, reduced the stall speed of the aircraft and increased the lift coefficient of the wings to allow the aircraft to be slowed for a safe landing. The pilots briefly considered a 360-degree turn to reduce speed and altitude, but decided that they did not have enough altitude for the maneuver. Pearson decided to execute a forward slip to increase drag and lose altitude."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

 

[dtuuri]

"As the runway drew near, it became apparent that the aircraft was coming in too high and fast, raising the danger of running off the runway before it could be stopped. The lack of hydraulic pressure prevented flap/slat extension which would have, under normal landing conditions, reduced the stall speed of the aircraft and increased the lift coefficient of the wings to allow the aircraft to be slowed for a safe landing. The pilots briefly considered a 360-degree turn to reduce speed and altitude, but decided that they did not have enough altitude for the maneuver. Pearson decided to execute a forward slip to increase drag and lose altitude."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Ah yes, I recognized that immediately! Ok, not immediately. At first I thought it was Ernest Gann recounting some experience in a DC-2, but, really, I had it by the end of the second sentence.

dtuuri