End-Of-Car-Lease Rantings

[RJM62]

So the lease on my car is up, and about a month ago I got a letter from GMAC intended to help me "smooth" the end-of-lease procedures, and asking me to call them. So I did.

I asked for instructions and made it clear that I was not interested in buying or leasing a new car. I also was told that the dealer through whom I'd leased the car was out of business, but that I could return it to any GM dealer.

Yeah, right.

I must have called a dozen of them in the past few weeks. Every one refused to accept the car. "Already have too many cars on the lot. No room for any more." Unless, of course, I bought a new car from them, which I don't want to do right now. I'm already deep enough in debt. I bought a used car off Craig's List and paid cash for it instead.

But I still had to turn in the leased vehicle, so I kept the plates and the insurance on it and kept calling dealerships. This went on for about three weeks, me calling dealers who hung up on me, and GMAC telling me they either wanted the car back or they wanted more money from me.

Finally, this past Monday, GMAC arranged for someone to come to pick up the car. They were supposed to come today (Thursday).

Fine, I thought, so I went to DMV to turn in the plates on Tuesday (which was another adventure, but I digress), and I called Geico to cancel the insurance. Then I moved all my junk from the leased car into the replacement car I bought, cleaned up the leased car, moved all of my appointments so I could be here today (there's a locked gate in front, so I have to be here), and so forth.

And then I sat here and waited.

And waited.

And waited.

Finally, I called GMAC, and I was told that the pickup had been canceled because when they tried to call me to confirm it, they got a busy signal.

Huh? You call and get a busy signal, so you cancel the appointment? You don't try again?

No, apparently they don't. So I was told that I would have to drive the car back to the dealership, which of course I can't do because it has no plates or insurance. And even if I wanted to cough up the $400.00 or so it would cost to re-register it, I can't because I don't have the title or a current leasing agreement.

So we went back and forth some more, with me trying to explain that no dealer I spoke to would take the car, and the rep telling me to bring it back to the originating dealership. "Don't you understand, they're out of business?" I asked, "That's what GMAC told me a month ago, or else I would have done just that."

This went on and on, and finally I was put through to a supervisor, who in turn put me through to her supervisor, who explained to me that the dealership wasn't really out of business. They had filed for bankruptcy, but they opened up under a new name.

Like, lady, why didn't you tell me that a month ago? I would have just driven the blasted car up to Harlem and been done with it.

So I called the dealership and left messages for the Leasing Manager, who never got back to me. "The landlord wants the car out of the lot today," I explained to the machine, "which is what I'd promised him based on GMAC's telling me they would pick it up today; so please call me back."

No joy with Benjamin. Either he's very busy, or he doesn't want the car back, either.

So I got back on the horn with GMAC and offered them a few options:

• They set up another appointment to come pick up the car, and actually keep the appointment this time.
• They get in touch with Benjamin and have him send someone over here with a dealer plate, and I'll drive the car up to Harlem.
• I pay for a tow truck to send the car back to Harlem.
• I let the landlord put it out on the street and let the cops impound it.

Back and forth we went, with none of the first three options being acceptable to them. Not even the third, which I thought was very generous on my part.

So I told them that in that case, the last option is the only choice; and I gave them the address of the impound lot so they could find the car. I have a couple of friends at the precinct who said it would be no problem. I'm no longer the registrant and don't have a current lease.

I was put on hold, again, and the lady came back on the line and reluctantly agreed to send someone to pick up the car, but only on one condition:

I had to agree to fill out an odometer statement and fax it back to them.

Heavens.

I sat there totally mystified, having expected some much more odious obligation. An odometer statement, huh? Okay... if that makes you happy, sure thing.

I filled out the statement and faxed it back to them, and I'm now awaiting a call from the transporter "within the next five to seven days" to arrange another appointment to pick up the car.

Later on, I'll go to the liquor store and buy a bottle of wine for the landlord to keep him happy for a few days. Maybe I'll buy him two bottles, in fact.

This is the third vehicle I have leased. The other two times, I had no problems returning them, possibly because I was driving out with new ones. Maybe the friendly, helpful attitude goes out the door when no new sale accompanies the return of a vehicle. Whatever the case, I doubt I'll ever lease another car; and if I do, I doubt it will be done through GMAC.

-Rich

 

[steingar]

I never really saw the point of leasing a car, but I tend to keep them forever (I'm in my late forties and have owned 3 cars in my life). I have it on good authority that if you stop paying for them they disappear all by themselves though.

 

[ScottM]

Rich was driving it to a dealer lot and saying 'here ya go the lease is over and this is yours now' never an option?

 

[sba55]

I think you're being way too accommodating. This was a lease; it was always their car, and your contractual obligations to them ended when the lease ended. You have made reasonable efforts to return their property to them, but I wouldn't think that anyone would expect you to make an extraordinary effort.

Personally, I would have put the car out on the street and told the police that there was an abandoned car there much earlier on in the process. Perfectly true, and probably a good way to get GMAC to act more responsibly. I'm glad you did that in the end....

 

[RJM62]

I was trying to be nice. Maybe too nice this time around.

Scott, I did actually consider driving it to a dealership and leaving it there. But again, I was trying to be nice and not stick a dealership with responsibility for a vehicle they had no part in leasing.

Eh. At least I can say I exhausted every "nice" option.

-Rich

 

[Henning]

I was trying to be nice. Maybe too nice this time around.

Scott, I did actually consider driving it to a dealership and leaving it there. But again, I was trying to be nice and not stick a dealership with responsibility for a vehicle they had no part in leasing.

Eh. At least I can say I exhausted every "nice" option.

-Rich

Gasoline---road flare---problem solved.

 

[wsuffa]

Why I will never lease a vehicle.

One of a multitude of reasons I won't buy GM.

 

[bbchien]

.......Why america is very, very ill.

 

[rpadula]

Aren't you glad we bailed them out?

 

[Trapper John]

Aren't you glad we bailed them out?

GM or GMAC?

 

[flyersfan31]

Rich was driving it to a dealer lot and saying 'here ya go the lease is over and this is yours now' never an option?

My thought exactly. Toss 'em the keys and say "See ya later, suckah!! Read the terms of the lease agreement and WEEP!!"

I leased two Explorers through Ford. Didn't think I wanted them more than 2 yrs, and I was probably right to do so at the time. They took them back without a sideways glance, but this was in the early Ought's, so life was good.

 

[Henning]

My thought exactly. Toss 'em the keys and say "See ya later, suckah!! Read the terms of the lease agreement and WEEP!!"
.

Why even say a word? Just drive it onto the lot, leave the keys in it and walk away. Maybe leave a note on the seat stating it's a lease return with a copy of the expired lease.

 

[rpadula]

GM or GMAC?

Yes. :wink2:

 

[SCCutler]

Guys, this is amateur hour compared to the thieving crap Honda Leasing of North America does; you could return a brand new car to them, and they'd assess a couple of grand for "refurbishing"; I had to threaten them with suit to back off. More than once, for more than one client. Most people just bow their heads and pay.

It is a scam of unmatched cynicism.

 

[RJM62]

On the bright side, there's a certain joy in owning a used car.

Not only are there no payments, liens, loans, or banks involved, but I hard-wire installed the GPS so the wires wouldn't be hanging all over the place, and I didn't have to worry about the hole I drilled in the dash. Did a nice job, too -- up to FAA standards, actually, right down to the grommet, terminals, and grounding post. It brought back memories of electrical shop some 30-odd years ago... sigh...

The driver's seat was reclining on its own, so I fixed it in the position I wanted and secured it in place with 5/16" hardened steel bolts, which I inserted through more holes that I gleefully drilled into the hardened-steel seat frame. Lemme tell ya... they should build submarines out of that stuff. Thank God for cobalt drill bits and cutting oil.

I plan to drill yet more holes for the CB radio (yeah, I still have one... but at least it's 40-channel), the aviation-band scanner, and their respective antennae. In fact, I can drill as many holes as I like. It's mine! I can drill all the holes I want!

Best of all, my insurance went down by almost two-thirds to about $80.00 a month -- which is very low by New York City standards -- and that's with the insurance company knowing that I use it for business purposes.

I figure I'll put the money I'm saving on the payments and the insurance into a "car fund" at the credit union, and hopefully pay for my next car in cash, as well. I'm tired of being in debt.

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

Why even say a word? Just drive it onto the lot, leave the keys in it and walk away. Maybe leave a note on the seat stating it's a lease return with a copy of the expired lease.

You're all right, of course. That's what I should have done. But like I said, I was trying to be nice. For many years of my life I wasn't very nice, so I make it a point to be nice these days. And it usually works.

Usually.

-Rich

 

[flyersfan31]

Guys, this is amateur hour compared to the thieving crap Honda Leasing of North America does; you could return a brand new car to them, and they'd assess a couple of grand for "refurbishing"; I had to threaten them with suit to back off. More than once, for more than one client. Most people just bow their heads and pay.

It is a scam of unmatched cynicism.

I must say, I was a bit worried about the potential for game-playing at the end of the lease (my lease was through Ford). I spent the whole lease term worrying about "excessive wear and tear." Too much aggro for me. I'm done leasing.

 

[Trapper John]

One of a multitude of reasons I won't buy GM.

I have no love for GMAC. I had my first car loan through them and they tried to screw me over on interest because I paid the car off a year early.

But GM sold control of GMAC to Cerberus several years ago. I think GM's current ownership in GMAC is less than 10%. If you don't like GM cars, then fine, don't buy one, but I really wouldn't penalize GM for GMAC's transgressions.

 

[SCCutler]

I have no love for GMAC. I had my first car loan through them and they tried to screw me over on interest because I paid the car off a year early.

But GM sold control of GMAC to Cerberus several years ago. I think GM's current ownership in GMAC is less than 10%. If you don't like GM cars, then fine, don't buy one, but I really wouldn't penalize GM for GMAC's transgressions.

I did not know that; explains a great deal.

 

[dennyleeb]

I have leased several vehicles through gmac and have never had any problems. But it was through one dealership. I think you should take it to any dealer like they said, video the vehicle, hand the keys to receptionist.

 

[wsuffa]

But GM sold control of GMAC to Cerberus several years ago. I think GM's current ownership in GMAC is less than 10%. If you don't like GM cars, then fine, don't buy one, but I really wouldn't penalize GM for GMAC's transgressions.

I am aware of that, and I've never dealt with GMAC, other than fending off repeated hard-sells years ago when I did look at GM.

My issues with GM go far beyond GMAC to quality, treatment, attempted warranty denials, dealer issues, and corporate issues with known defects. I did own a GM once. Will never own them again, regardless of their representations about quality and service. GM is too big. And GMC is still a primary finance company for GM - witness the original post... vehicle: GM, finance: GMAC, issue returning vehicle: both (GM dealers wouldn't accept vehicle).

So, yeah, GMAC is a reason not to buy GM if you're looking for financing/leasing (I'm not, I pay cash for vehicles).

 

[Mason]

I plan to drill yet more holes for the CB radio (yeah, I still have one... but at least it's 40-channel), the aviation-band scanner, and their respective antennae. In fact, I can drill as many holes as I like. It's mine! I can drill all the holes I want!



-Rich

Yeah.

Years ago, I permanently installed a CB in my dash and drilled a hole in the roof for the antenna, running the cable behind the headliner. Very neat installation.

When I traded in the car the dealer was all pi$$ed about the hole in the roof until I told him the CB was staying in the car. Then they were all happy.

 

[SCCutler]

So Rich, who's talking on CB these days? I do not believe I have switched on one of mine (I have, I think, 3 of them) since I moved from Californa to Texas in 1990.

 

[AdamZ]

Rich was driving it to a dealer lot and saying 'here ya go the lease is over and this is yours now' never an option?

...
Personally, I would have put the car out on the street and told the police that there was an abandoned car there much earlier on in the process. Perfectly true, and probably a good way to get GMAC to act more responsibly. I'm glad you did that in the end....

Why even say a word? Just drive it onto the lot, leave the keys in it and walk away. Maybe leave a note on the seat stating it's a lease return with a copy of the expired lease.

Great for short term gain in the sense that you can feel you showed them a thing or two but in the long run the leasing company can really screw you. You are responsible for returning the car and when they don't have it,even due to their own incompetence, they will continue to bill you and then ding your credit report or even sue you. Believe me its not worth the aggravation.

Guys, this is amateur hour compared to the thieving crap Honda Leasing of North America does; you could return a brand new car to them, and they'd assess a couple of grand for "refurbishing"; I had to threaten them with suit to back off. More than once, for more than one client. Most people just bow their heads and pay.

It is a scam of unmatched cynicism.

Actually I have found Honda Finance good to deal with.

Rich, Do youself a big favor and protect yourself. Write to GMAC and outline everything that has happened. Document who you spoke to and tell them that unless the car is picked up by X-Date You are going to leave it with a spefic dealer. Regardless of whether the dealer says its ok. If you do leave it with a dealer get the name of the person who you gave the keys to. Ask them if they want to come look at the car. If they don't document that in the letter you send to GMAC telling them what dealer you left the car at and with what specific person. That the car was in tip top shape and they declined to look at it at your inviation. Take a photo of the freaking car in the dealers lot with their sign visible in the photo. Send everything to GMAC via certified mail return receipt requested or fed ex. And Keep copies of everything.

 

[CJones]

So Rich, who's talking on CB these days? I do not believe I have switched on one of mine (I have, I think, 3 of them) since I moved from Californa to Texas in 1990.

Good question. I have a CB in my Jeep for trail use, but I never turn it on while on the road. I thought it would be 'cool' when we drove it from Iowa to Colorado last fall, but in 24 hrs of driving, I think I heard <5 truckers talking.

Should I be snooping on a channel other than 19?

 

[steingar]

Rich, Do youself a big favor and protect yourself. Write to GMAC and outline everything that has happened. Document who you spoke to and tell them that unless the car is picked up by X-Date You are going to leave it with a spefic dealer. Regardless of whether the dealer says its ok. If you do leave it with a dealer get the name of the person who you gave the keys to. Ask them if they want to come look at the car. If they don't document that in the letter you send to GMAC telling them what dealer you left the car at and with what specific person. That the car was in tip top shape and they declined to look at it at your inviation. Take a photo of the freaking car in the dealers lot with their sign visible in the photo. Send everything to GMAC via certified mail return receipt requested or fed ex. And Keep copies of everything.

You are one bright dude Adam. Sounds like really good advice, tons better than mine.

 

[SCCutler]

Actually I have found Honda Finance good to deal with.

It certainly could be a regional thing - perhaps they have contractors whose job it is to take in lease returns, assess condition, and make corrections, and they were scamming Honda, too. But I still recall one client / friend who actually took his Legend to a detail shop, to make sure it was good and proper prior to return. It was a frickin' new car (not like it needed detailing before).

They still tried to ding him for nearly two grand. It was only because (1) he had a lawyer, and (2) he had beaucoup photographs which put the lie to their contentions, that we made them go away.

 

[RJM62]

So Rich, who's talking on CB these days? I do not believe I have switched on one of mine (I have, I think, 3 of them) since I moved from Californa to Texas in 1990.

A mixture of truckers, local insomniacs, and morons, for the most part. I only use it on long drives at night when I'm alone. Takes away some of the monotony.

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

....

Rich, Do youself a big favor and protect yourself. Write to GMAC and outline everything that has happened. Document who you spoke to and tell them that unless the car is picked up by X-Date You are going to leave it with a spefic dealer. Regardless of whether the dealer says its ok. If you do leave it with a dealer get the name of the person who you gave the keys to. Ask them if they want to come look at the car. If they don't document that in the letter you send to GMAC telling them what dealer you left the car at and with what specific person. That the car was in tip top shape and they declined to look at it at your inviation. Take a photo of the freaking car in the dealers lot with their sign visible in the photo. Send everything to GMAC via certified mail return receipt requested or fed ex. And Keep copies of everything.

Thank you, Adam. Will do.

-Rich

 

[RJM62]

Good question. I have a CB in my Jeep for trail use, but I never turn it on while on the road. I thought it would be 'cool' when we drove it from Iowa to Colorado last fall, but in 24 hrs of driving, I think I heard <5 truckers talking.

Should I be snooping on a channel other than 19?

That's kind of a local thing. Around here, it's usually Channel 10, although it varies.

There a group that calls themselves the "CB a**holes" on 19 who exist to make the channel useless for anyone else.

Go figger.

-Rich

 

[SCCutler]

That's kind of a local thing. Around here, it's usually Channel 10, although it varies.

There a group that calls themselves the "CB a**holes" on 19 who exist to make the channel useless for anyone else.

Go figger.

-Rich

Gosh, their mammas must be awful proud.

 

[Ghery]

Good question. I have a CB in my Jeep for trail use, but I never turn it on while on the road. I thought it would be 'cool' when we drove it from Iowa to Colorado last fall, but in 24 hrs of driving, I think I heard <5 truckers talking.

Should I be snooping on a channel other than 19?

Back when I lived in Napa (late 1970s) ch 17 was the place to hang out, rather than ch 19. It's a local thing. I've got a CB radio, but it isn't mounted in anything, nor is it connected to an antenna for that band. Well, the antenna used to be 11 meters, but I cut it down so it would work on the 10 meter amateur radio band. Old (1970s vintage) Turner Signal Kicker. Good mag mount antenna. Don't want to transmit on CB with it anymore (SWR is a bit high). I would use it for trail running with my Jeep, as well, but the few times I've done that my CB handheld has worked fine. 2m/70cm dual band FM ham rig is mounted and used daily, however.

 

[Trapper John]

Old (1970s vintage) Turner Signal Kicker. Good mag mount antenna.

Small world - my uncle was the design team lead for the Signal Kicker. They sold gobs of them, but he got laid off when Turner got sold to Telex...

 

[Ghery]

Small world - my uncle was the design team lead for the Signal Kicker. They sold gobs of them, but he got laid off when Turner got sold to Telex...

Typical reward for being good.

 

[sba55]

Great for short term gain in the sense that you can feel you showed them a thing or two but in the long run the leasing company can really screw you. You are responsible for returning the car and when they don't have it,even due to their own incompetence, they will continue to bill you and then ding your credit report or even sue you. Believe me its not worth the aggravation.

I believe you, but I'm wondering what they could really do. If I have someone's property, and I make reasonable attempts to return it (and OP certainly has done that by calling multiple dealerships, GMAC, etc.), isn't it my responsibility to turn it over to the police?

In California, there's a law that says that if you find something and you don't make reasonable attempts to return it to the owner or the police, it's the same as theft. I realize that this situation here is slightly different, but not really all that much? I don't think someone could successfully sue you for not returning something if the only reason that you haven't returned it is that they refused to accept it from you?

-Felix

 

[RJM62]

I believe you, but I'm wondering what they could really do. If I have someone's property, and I make reasonable attempts to return it (and OP certainly has done that by calling multiple dealerships, GMAC, etc.), isn't it my responsibility to turn it over to the police?

In California, there's a law that says that if you find something and you don't make reasonable attempts to return it to the owner or the police, it's the same as theft. I realize that this situation here is slightly different, but not really all that much? I don't think someone could successfully sue you for not returning something if the only reason that you haven't returned it is that they refused to accept it from you?

-Felix

These people get very nasty, Felix, when they realize you're not interested in buying a new car.

One example is that one of the reps chided me for turning in the plates to DMV. She said that I drove it out of the dealership with the plates, so I should return the plates to the dealership.

I had to explain the following to her:

• Firstly, that the plates were registered to me, not to the dealership or GMAC. The DMV wouldn't have even accepted them were that not the case. I had used the same plates on multiple cars, both owned and leased, prior to slapping them on the current leased vehicle;
• Secondly, that I left the plates on their car for about three weeks after I no longer needed the car, solely for the purpose of trying to return it, which means I was paying insurance on both vehicles for that time;
• Thirdly, that I had to turn them in in order to be able to cancel the insurance; and
• Finally, that I only did so after GMAC had made the appointment to pick up the car -- which they did not keep.

In other words, at my own expense, I continued to insure and keep registered a vehicle that I had no need of and wasn't driving, for the sole reason that I was still trying to return it to them. I only canceled the plates and insurance after the pickup was arranged.

Keeping the vehicle registered and insured also resulted in some additional expense to me in addition to the insurance premium. I was, for example, unable to transfer the old plates from the leased vehicle to the replacement vehicle. The old registration still had a year left on it, so it would not be considered a "new" registration. This would have had an effect on the various taxes and fees levied on "new" registrations. I also would have gotten credit for the unused portion of the registration.

But by turning the plates in to DMV, all I get back is the unused portion of the registration fee, not the taxes and surcharges, which are the bulk of the actual cost of registering a vehicle. I also had to pay those same taxes and surcharges on the new plates for the replacement car. These taxes and fees added up to several hundred dollars -- far more than the actual registration fee.

What it comes down to is that I bent over backward trying to do things in what I thought was an ethical manner, but GMAC basically tried to bully their way through the whole process. I guess they figured that I was an idiot who would cave. It was only once they realized that I wasn't falling for it that they resigned themselves to the fact that they would have to arrange to pick up their car.

They also told me that I had to renew the insurance on the vehicle, even though it's parked off the street. I refused to do so, which I think also had something to do with their decision to give in. They don't like that there's no coverage on it at this point.

They've agreed to pick up the car, but they're still not making it very convenient. They still haven't given me a date for the pickup appointment, for example, nor a phone number to contact the transporter. They said he / she will call me in five to seven days.

If they don't pick it up within that time frame, I'll just pay to have it towed to the nearest dealership and left there, with all the documentation I need to prove it. There's no way I know of to get plates on it again at this point to drive it there.

You know, the first time a dealer refused to accept this car, a friend of mine told me he'd gone through the same thing at the end of his lease. He said GMAC had him so frustrated that he'd considered driving the the car up to The Bronx and parking it on the street with the window open, the keys in the ignition, and twenty bucks taped to the dashboard for gas. I laughed, but he was completely serious. Now I understand why.

-Rich

 

[N801BH]

It appears the moral of this story is.

1- Do not be nice.

2- When the lease is over and you are contacted by the leasing agency just BS them and lead them on by telling them you will be buying a new car from them... Drive it to the location they direct you to. Surrender the vehicle and get all the paperwork signed off to clear your name and credit.

3- Stand up, tell them to F--k off, pound sand and laugh as you walk out the door..

Just my simple view of this dilemma.

Ben.

 

[SCCutler]

It appears the moral of this story is.

1- Do not be nice.

2- When the lease is over and you are contacted by the leasing agency just BS them and lead them on by telling them you will be buying a new car from them... Drive it to the location they direct you to. Surrender the vehicle and get all the paperwork signed off to clear your name and credit.

3- Stand up, tell them to F--k off, pound sand and laugh as you walk out the door..

Just my simple view of this dilemma.

Ben.

Caveat:

Be sure you document, well, the condition of the vehicle when returned. Photos galore.

 

[weilke]

Working for GMAC leasing at one point in my life cured me from the thought of ever again leasing a car.

Sorry for your troubles. I hate to say it, but they are standard GMAC business practice. All part of their attempt to get into a position that allows them to send you a bill for the residual on the car. They don't want the car, they want your money.

 

[weilke]

I believe you, but I'm wondering what they could really do.

Send you a bill for the residual on the car as you 'opted to keep it' (based on paragraph 3.4.(ii) b. 31882 in the amendment 4.4.5.6(c) to the leasing contract that they sent you somewhere in the junkmail you received 1/2 way into your contract which you 'agreed to' by not objecting to it with a notarized letter hand-delivered to gmac headquarters in bermuda, 3rd sub-basement within 11.3hrs after mailing of the amended contract)