EGt whack..... Annual inspection.

Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
Plane went in and the EI EGT monitor was fine. Came out of annual and 2 cylinders are like 250 dog below normal. Other two are right where they should be.

The Hobbes also stopped working as well. You know when they say if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it? Feeling about that way right now.

Called the shop and he had some suggestions to look at, but I wanted to go burn some gas and I'd like my stuff working.

Any ideas? Would an engine wash mess up the probes and pressure switch? He said neither was touched during the inspection.
 
Bring it back to the shop and tell them to fix what they broke, nothing they can't see on a ground run.
 
James331 said:
Bring it back to the shop and tell them to fix what they broke, nothing they can't see on a ground run.
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Agreed....

Shops that break working items need to be held accountable... I have seen this over my 35 years of flying and alot of shops think pilots/owners are rich and dumb and will pay to fix stuff the shops kill...

Probably the main reason I built and own an experimental....:rolleyes::rolleyes:...:yes:
 
Working when it went in, busted when it came out....

I think I'd be on the horn to the A&P without my checkbook.
 
Why did you leave the facility with discrepancies?

Bad , Bad. your bad.
 
txflyer said:
Working when it went in, busted when it came out....

I think I'd be on the horn to the A&P without my checkbook.
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How do we know it worked going in? might have been broke for a long time, now he wants the facility to fix it free. Yes pilots are that way.
 
When you figure out what's wrong with the Hobbs please let me know!
 
Tom-D said:
How do we know it worked going in? might have been broke for a long time, now he wants the facility to fix it free. Yes pilots are that way.
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Sounds like your classic Mexican stand off.
 
Tom-D said:
How do we know it worked going in? might have been broke for a long time, now he wants the facility to fix it free. Yes pilots are that way.
Click to expand...

I flew it in 45 min XC, I always lean up, I know it worked. If it was inop, I would have told him. The Hobbes, I have a running log on my flights, right up till I shut it down at the shop.

Pilots are cheap, but I also have ethics. My AP knows I will spend money if it's remotely nessssary. I would say I'm a good customer as I am always upgrading something with him.

Your suggestion that I'd pull the wool over his eyes is ignorant. :rolleyes2:
 
Tom-D said:
Why did you leave the facility with discrepancies?

Bad , Bad. your bad.
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Really? Like, your serious right? Are you drunk tonight or just trying to be an as hole?
 
Hobbs are simple 2 wires. sounds like some wires got bumped trying to get to something else. make sure the plugs are plugged in to the monitor
 
Unit74 said:
Really? Like, your serious right? Are you drunk tonight or just trying to be an as hole?
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I don't think Tom is either, but you are climbing up the list. Spelling errors are symptomatic of either of these syndromes or just plain butt-ugly stupidity. Pick which one of the three you like.

Jim
 
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Tom-D said:
How do we know it worked going in? might have been broke for a long time, now he wants the facility to fix it free. Yes pilots are that way.
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No, not really Tom.

And if a shop made a simple little mistake, busted the ground on my Hobbs or something, no biggie, make it right, won't take really much of their time, and we are good, I'll keep spending money with them and recommending them.

On the other hand, go your route, accuse me of fraud, and I'll never give you a cent, I'll take you to court, and blast your name all over the place, you'll loose FAAAAR more money playing that game then the 15-20min of your time re attaching some ground wire you bumped.

Personally, in business, with little small chit like this, I just err on the side of MY customer, this mindset has served me well for quite some time.

But hey, it's a free country, make your call.
 
Unit74 said:
Really? Like, your serious right? Are you drunk tonight or just trying to be an as hole?
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Did you or did you not leave the facility with discrepancies?

Yep I'm an ******* but I'm a smart one, who is really careful of an aircraft that is just coming out of annual, and will not except aircraft that have broken stuff after some one has had it all apart.
 
James331 said:
No, not really Tom.

And if a shop made a simple little mistake, busted the ground on my Hobbs or something, no biggie, make it right, won't take really much of their time, and we are good, I'll keep spending money with them and recommending them.

On the other hand, go your route, accuse me of fraud, and I'll never give you a cent, I'll take you to court, and blast your name all over the place, you'll loose FAAAAR more money playing that game then the 15-20min of your time re attaching some ground wire you bumped.

Personally, in business, with little small chit like this, I just err on the side of MY customer, this mindset has served me well for quite some time.

But hey, it's a free country, make your call.
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Your very quick to conclude thoughts about a facility, aircraft and owners you know nothing about. or do you generally think the owner is always right and the mechanic is always the bad guy.
 
James331 said:
Bring it back to the shop and tell them to fix what they broke, nothing they can't see on a ground run.
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or the owners pre-flight, he should have caught the discrepancies prior to payment and departure.

Let's just drop the CC on the counter and grab the keys and leave,,,, Is that the way it happened?
 
If it was not working correctly ,why did you leave ? If you feel the shop may be taking advantage of you,find another shop. At least give the shop a chance to make it right.
 
If the shop has any integrity they'll fix it for you free of charge.

Next time, do a return to service flight before flying it home. Circle 15-20 minutes over the airport, 1000 feet above pattern altitude, put everything through its paces. Amazing what you can discover that way. Much better than getting stranded somewhere halfway -- or not making it home. :eek:
 
Tom-D said:
or the owners pre-flight, he should have caught the discrepancies prior to payment and departure.

Let's just drop the CC on the counter and grab the keys and leave,,,, Is that the way it happened?
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A competent, smart and quality FAA certified mechanic would do a VERY thorough post annual run up to confirm NO leaks, NO squawks and ALL systems are functioning... BEFORE signing off his/her work...

That is a FAA requirement...

Also, prior to payment is a weak argument, since any decent shop will insist on payment BEFORE you taxi out and depart....:rolleyes:
 
Wow, this thread went south in a hurry. :rolleyes:

@OP, good luck.

@TwoOthers, we can't all be perfect like you two are.

Besides:

Tom-D said:
Yep I'm an ******* but I'm a smart one, who is really careful of an aircraft that is just coming out of annual, and will not except aircraft that have broken stuff after some one has had it all apart.
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:rofl:
 
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Similar thing happened to me. Put in a brand new dimmer switch for the panel last fall. Worked great. Plane comes out of annual in May, and I put 10+ hours on the plane. I haven't flown at night since, and the dimmer was working just fine before it went in. Go up to do some approaches after work, and the light inside the cockpit is getting a bit low, so I turn up the dimmer switch. I hear "zzzzzzzz, pop." Breaker goes for that circuit.

Now we can either go the Tom Downey route:
"Hey you cheap ****er, you just want a brand new dimmer switch put in, even though you already have one. Too bad you ******* pilot, you better pay up before I touch the plane again. It can't possibly be my problem."

or my A&P's route:
"Yeah, when we replaced the voltage regulator, I was behind the panel quite a bit, and something probably got bumped, or something, I'll climb under there and make it right."

Who would you return to?
 
The value of self-done annuals. I know everyone can't do them, but you should if you can.
 
Unit74 said:
Really? Like, your serious right? Are you drunk tonight or just trying to be an as hole?
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Not at all, that's completely honest. Once you leave, then everything is settled, and any other problems new problems. That's why you should always do a thorough return to service flight before heading home or away with it. If you find the issue on the run up or take off, which one would find this problem right away, then you head straight back to the shop right then and they square it away. Do mechanics sometime cause a problem during service? Yep. Are there crooked owners who try to get mechanics to pay for repairs for failing to notice a discrepancy and then blaming the mechanic for it? Yep there are.

This is why it's important to find your mechanic before you find your plane, and why some mechanics will reject you as a customer, trust is at the heart of the relationship.
 
Ok...


Back to he shop and we BOTH worked on the Hobbs first. Pressure switch good, no grounds or breaks, it's on the stall horn breaker. Sooooo...... We start checking that. All checks good. Stall horn checks good. Hobbes still inop.

So we say lets ground run it and see if everything still looks good. On start up, stall horn breaker pops. We repeated this several times.

Other AP who serviced the brake master cylinders comes over after all that racket and starts scratching her head. She said, " ya know, I was under the panel with the brakes. Let me take another look. I know I bumped around in there."

Sure enough, after a few min, she discovers the stall horn sounder bracket is loose. Master on, wiggle the bracket and sizzerathwpt....sound of arcing and the stall horn breaker pops. She had loosened the bracket to service the brakes and it had enough play to ground out with the shaking on start up. Problem solved.


On the flight over, I was showing the egts about 200 deg difference on two cylinders. With the EGT probes on the portside, we pulled them apart and cleaned up the contacts. Ground run up showed with 50 deg on each cylinder. This was with the cowel off. I'm wondering if the engine solvent had something to do with it from te wash down.

Thunderstorms moved in today, so I'm grounded for now.
 
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Unit74 said:
Ok...


Back to he shop and we BOTH worked on the Hobbs first. Pressure switch good, no grounds or breaks, it's on the stall horn breaker. Sooooo...... We start checking that. All checks good. Stall horn checks good. Hobbes still inop.

So we say lets ground run it and see if everything still looks good. On start up, stall horn breaker pops. We repeated this several times.

Other AP who serviced the brake master cylinders comes over after all that racket and starts scratching her head. She said, " ya know, I was under the panel with the brakes. Let me take another look. I know I bumped around in there."

Sure enough, after a few min, she discovers the stall horn sounder bracket is loose. Master on, wiggle the bracket and sizzerathwpt....sound of arcing and the stall horn breaker pops. She had loosened the bracket to service the brakes and it had enough play to ground out with the shaking on start up. Problem solved.


On the flight over, I was showing the egts about 200 deg difference on two cylinders. With the EGT probes on the portside, we pulled them apart and cleaned up the contacts. Ground run up showed with 50 deg on each cylinder. This was with the cowel off. I'm wondering if the engine solvent had something to do with it from te wash down.

Thunderstorms moved in today, so I'm grounded for now.
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Ya gotta love FAA certified A&P mechanics,,,,:no::no::no:....:nono:
 
N801BH said:
Ya gotta love FAA certified A&P mechanics,,,,:no::no::no:....:nono:
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HEY! I represent that comment. :D

A good shop would have caught that crap on the run-up after the annual. I always got p***ed when one of our mechanics let something like that escape. I had to fix it on non-productive time. No profit in that.
 
EdFred said:
Similar thing happened to me. Put in a brand new dimmer switch for the panel last fall. Worked great. Plane comes out of annual in May, and I put 10+ hours on the plane. I haven't flown at night since, and the dimmer was working just fine before it went in. Go up to do some approaches after work, and the light inside the cockpit is getting a bit low, so I turn up the dimmer switch. I hear "zzzzzzzz, pop." Breaker goes for that circuit.

Now we can either go the Tom Downey route:
"Hey you cheap ****er, you just want a brand new dimmer switch put in, even though you already have one. Too bad you ******* pilot, you better pay up before I touch the plane again. It can't possibly be my problem."

or my A&P's route:
"Yeah, when we replaced the voltage regulator, I was behind the panel quite a bit, and something probably got bumped, or something, I'll climb under there and make it right."

Who would you return to?
Click to expand...
You come down hard on me for saying it is the pilot's responsibility to find the discrepancies prior to flying away with a broken aircraft..

Why? Do you do that?
 
N801BH said:
A competent, smart and quality FAA certified mechanic would do a VERY thorough post annual run up to confirm NO leaks, NO squawks and ALL systems are functioning... BEFORE signing off his/her work...

That is a FAA requirement...

Also, prior to payment is a weak argument, since any decent shop will insist on payment BEFORE you taxi out and depart....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Also if there wasn't a inop sticker on those two items, and the plane was signed off, it was signed off in a un airworthy state, no?
 
James331 said:
Also if there wasn't a inop sticker on those two items, and the plane was signed off, it was signed off in a un airworthy state, no?
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Most shops do not test fly customer planes pre and/or post maint. Those discrepancies could be tough to catch on a run up, especially if you don't do it all before the service. Most shops are honest and fix the squawks they create. To come down on mechanics as grossly incompetent and unethical for this stuff is just plain idiotic. I know no one that doesn't make mistakes. It's one of those, "Those without sin may cast stones" things.
 
James331 said:
Also if there wasn't a inop sticker on those two items, and the plane was signed off, it was signed off in a un airworthy state, no?
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This is true, why did the owner fly it away?
 
James331 said:
No, not really Tom.

And if a shop made a simple little mistake, busted the ground on my Hobbs or something, no biggie, make it right, won't take really much of their time, and we are good, I'll keep spending money with them and recommending them.

On the other hand, go your route, accuse me of fraud, and I'll never give you a cent, I'll take you to court, and blast your name all over the place, you'll loose FAAAAR more money playing that game then the 15-20min of your time re attaching some ground wire you bumped.

Personally, in business, with little small chit like this, I just err on the side of MY customer, this mindset has served me well for quite some time.

But hey, it's a free country, make your call.
Click to expand...

No one ever accused you of any thing, But when a owner flys the aircraft after the annual, how are they to prove when the shi- broke?

Do you check each item prior to flying the aircraft after annual? should you? should you show the facility the discrepancies they missed right there and then or would you allow it to become a Pizzing contest later.
 
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Tom-D said:
No one ever accused you of any thing, But when a owner flys the aircraft after the annual, how are they to prove when the shi- broke?

Do you check each item prior to flying the aircraft after annual? should you? should you show the facility the discrepancies they missed right there and then or would you allow it to become a Pizzing contest later.
Click to expand...

Normally I just find the problem and if it's minor correct it, no big deal.
 
Tom-D said:
This is true, why did the owner fly it away?
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Tom


You clearly sound like the guy who points fingers at everyone else, but fails to realize you have 4 fingers pointing right back at you every time. :no:


You tell me how many people stare at the Hobbs every single time they run the plane to make sure it's turning. And run up the engine for 3 minutes to get EGTs stabilized.

Quit being an accusatory bag of tools with nothing better than being a negative nanny. Your making PoA look like it harbors trolls and arrogant female sanitation products.:nono:
 
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