Ed Fred's PIC Chart Question

[Jaybird180]

According to the chart (here), PIC can be logged when PPL holder is not rated in the aircraft to be flown, yet is sole occupant of the aircraft. How can this be? Wouldn't he be in violation of other regulations? Did the PIC bail out, leaving him alone?

PIC can also be logged when a PPL is acting as safety pilot (and by interpolation) the PNF but acting as PIC by agreement. Is this superfluous? Why the need to specifically call it out? Any exceptions?

 

[Apache123]

According to the chart (here), PIC can be logged when PPL holder is not rated in the aircraft to be flown, yet is sole occupant of the aircraft. How can this be? Wouldn't he be in violation of other regulations? Did the PIC bail out, leaving him alone?

PIC can also be logged when a PPL is acting as safety pilot (and by interpolation) the PNF but acting as PIC by agreement. Is this superfluous? Why the need to specifically call it out? Any exceptions?

I do this in a twin as a PP-ASEL via 61.31(d)

 

[azure]

According to the chart (here), PIC can be logged when PPL holder is not rated in the aircraft to be flown, yet is sole occupant of the aircraft. How can this be? Wouldn't he be in violation of other regulations? Did the PIC bail out, leaving him alone?

Remember when you were a student pilot? You weren't yet rated in the aircraft, but were the sole occupant, and you logged PIC time. You could also be training toward a rating in a different category or class, and endorsed to solo, e.g. someone might be going for their M.E. rating and endorsed to solo in a twin.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just like there's a difference between acting and logging, there's also a difference between logging and the legality of a flight. If you are the unrated only person in the aircraft, you might be a student pilot, a transitioning trainee like Jaybird's example or have no right to be on board at all.

Logging as rated sole manipulator is the same thing. After all, you might have let your currency lapse or stolen the airplane.

 

[bbchien]

Steve, Watch out for the "required crew rule". If you are required crew, you have to be rated. The interpretations didn't exist when EdFred published the chart.

It's tough to find another MEI pilot to fly with for approaches, so fortunately I usually am able to just fly them for real, often.

See the third paragraph of the Herman letter:http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../interpretations/data/interps/2009/Herman.pdf

They cite category, class, and type in his question as to a high performance endorsement. But that means that for a different CLASS (twin engine aircraft) this opinion DOES NOT APPLY.

 

[Apache123]

Steve, Watch out for the "required crew rule". If you are required crew, you have to be rated. The interpretations didn't exist when EdFred published the chart.

It's tough to find another MEI pilot to fly with for approaches, so fortunately I usually am able to just fly them for real, often.

See the third paragraph of the Herman letter:http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../interpretations/data/interps/2009/Herman.pdf

They cite category, class, and type in his question as to a high performance endorsement. But that means that for a different CLASS (twin engine aircraft) this opinion DOES NOT APPLY.

Indeed. In my case I'm sole manipulator of controls but also solo -- I wouldn't log PIC via 61.31(d) when I have an MEI or AMEL with me.

My instructor was iffy about this so he called the local FSDO (chicago) to get clarification. They said that with his endorsement I was approved for PP solo ops, but made it very clear that I was never PIC when there were others on-board and that while 61.31(d) lets me fly solo it does not allow me to bring passengers without an instructor/rated-PIC a la 61.31(c)

 

[flyingron]

Remember when you were a student pilot? You weren't yet rated in the aircraft, but were the sole occupant, and you logged PIC time. You could also be training toward a rating in a different category or class, and endorsed to solo, e.g. someone might be going for their M.E. rating and endorsed to solo in a twin.

I remember when I was a student pilot and the regs did not allow PIC time logging by student pilots. That's subsequently been changed a couple of decades later.