Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judge

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mikegreen

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http://www.dronehire.org/blog/drone...mmercially-in-us-airspace-rules-federal-judge

Interesting. I don't see a huge problem with drones filling the skies at 300-500ft AGL... just stay away from the pattern and final.. which RC planes seem to have been doing great for years (or since the 1981 FAA AC asking for voluntary compliance with flying them).

Anyone know of an RC vs plane incident? Drone or otherwise?
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Wow, this is big. Nice to see a fed judge not legislate from the bench too. He read what was written and ruled on the facts at hand, and not what the FAA 'implied'.

While I might have a problem sharing the airspace with a bunch of drones, from a larger law perspective it looks like the right ruling.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Missed communication. The RC pilot was doing his thing,relying on someone with a radio.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Not quite "federal judge" as a lot of people think of the term. The ruling is this case was by an NTSB Administrative Law Judge and subject to appeal to the full NTSB.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

He's a fed, he's a judge, he's a fed judge. He signed the order that way. Appeal away.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

docmirror said:
....
While I might have a problem sharing the airspace with a bunch of drones, from a larger law perspective it looks like the right ruling.
Click to expand...

Hold on just a minute there!!! The Chief Counsel wrote a letter that said the FAA could control drones!!!!!!!!!!!:mad3:

Who is this mere NTSB guy to overrule the mighty Chief Counsel!!!!!!!! :nono:
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

It won't last. Either it will be overturned by the full NTSB (seems like ALJ's get overturned more often than they are sustained when they rule against the FAA) or the FAA will have a rule in place to close the gap before anyone else can leap into it. Remember when the judge ruled the FAA couldn't violate a pilot for not having his pilot certificate "in his possession" because what's in your safe deposit box is "in your possession"? Took them maybe a month to change the regulation to "personal possession", which essentially means "with you where you can produce it right now on demand" (i.e., on your person or in the plane) as opposed to just "possession" meaning where you can control access to it. This won't take long.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

I agree it won't take long. Congress charged the FAA with integrating UAS into NAS. It would surprise me if Congress would let NAS be unregulated and if the FAA con't publish it's own rule it seems likely Congress would provide one.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Ron Levy said:
It won't last. Either it will be overturned by the full NTSB (seems like ALJ's get overturned more often than they are sustained when they rule against the FAA) or the FAA will have a rule in place to close the gap before anyone else can leap into it. Remember when the judge ruled the FAA couldn't violate a pilot for not having his pilot certificate "in his possession" because what's in your safe deposit box is "in your possession"? Took them maybe a month to change the regulation to "personal possession", which essentially means "with you where you can produce it right now on demand" (i.e., on your person or in the plane) as opposed to just "possession" meaning where you can control access to it. This won't take long.
Click to expand...

Well, did they retroactively go back and pros that offender, and make it stick?

Got any case law on how this is going to play out for this specific case? Or is the FAA going to plug the hole by just making stuff up again?
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Mike I said:
FAA has already appealed:
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=15894&cid=TW209
Click to expand...

The legislation that created the FAA only grants them authority over navigable airspace and only for certain uses of that airspace. (I've posted my reasoning elsewhere.) The supreme court has determined in a couple cases that navigable airspace is dictated by the minimum safe altitudes that is set by the FAA, which they determined was as defined in 91.119. They further hinted that if the FAA reduced such altitudes (e.g. to "83 feet") then the court may have reason to question such a regulatory redefinition.
 
I'm so glad I pay on the interest on the loans that pay all these asshats to argue in court, aren't you?
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

The 60 Minutes show had a long segment on the proliferation of civilian drones tonight, and on the privacy and other issues that governments are going to have to deal with. Based on what was said, I predict traffic jams of drones in densely populated urban areas sooner or later. :eek:
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

I know I cannot use a shotgun in town, but if such a device is over my house, I might get good with a slingshot... Or a hunter-killer drone!
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

So, we can't shine a laser at them, we can't shoot them with a shotgun(sadly), but nothing about high power radio waves. I can rig up a pulsed directed beam source at modest freq that will bring it down in a few seconds.

Of course, any radio wave generation has to be licensed, but I double dog dare anyone to identify it in a 3 second set of ms pulsed radiation.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

docmirror said:
So, we can't shine a laser at them, we can't shoot them with a shotgun(sadly), but nothing about high power radio waves. I can rig up a pulsed directed beam source at modest freq that will bring it down in a few seconds.

Of course, any radio wave generation has to be licensed, but I double dog dare anyone to identify it in a 3 second set of ms pulsed radiation.
Click to expand...

If it is flying under 500 feet over your property it is likely trespassing. You would be within your rights to swat it with really big swatter. Or rig some sort of net tethered to the ground that can be launched at such a device.

The only issue I see, though, is that unless there is something interesting about you or your property, ain't nobody going to be overflying your property.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Window fan
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Jim Logajan said:
The only issue I see, though, is that unless there is something interesting about you or your property, ain't nobody going to be overflying your property.
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Yes, exactly. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide, Comrade.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

DaleB said:
Yes, exactly. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide, Comrade.
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hehe,,, like the way you think. I was going to post very similar verbiage. I guess legally the feds/media can park a small drone 5 feet from your bedroom window and be fully compliant.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

docmirror said:
hehe,,, like the way you think. I was going to post very similar verbiage. I guess legally the feds/media can park a small drone 5 feet from your bedroom window and be fully compliant.
Click to expand...
Fully compliant and short one smoking pile of UAV leavin's.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

DaleB said:
Yes, exactly. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide, Comrade.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand - you are a nobody. No one is going to be spend any time and effort snooping on you unless or until you make a nuisance of yourself above and beyond all the other people who become such.

First it was black helicopters that the paranoid feared - now it is the black drones.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

So, I'm a nobody, something we can all agree on. My house gets struck by a piece of meteorite, suddenly I've got 30 drones about 10 feet off my property. Someone calls in a false report of meth lab at my house, and the cops bang down my door at 3 am. 30 drones outside my door.

Got nothing to hide - right?
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

docmirror said:
So, I'm a nobody, something we can all agree on. My house gets struck by a piece of meteorite, suddenly I've got 30 drones about 10 feet off my property. Someone calls in a false report of meth lab at my house, and the cops bang down my door at 3 am. 30 drones outside my door.

Got nothing to hide - right?
Click to expand...

Sure, once the new phone books have arrived you're somebody.

Those 30 privately owned drones are trespassing. As far back as 1946 the U.S. Supreme court in United States v. Causby stated:

"Flights of aircraft over private land which are so low and frequent as to be a direct and immediate interference with the enjoyment and use of the land are as much an appropriation of the use of the land as a more conventional entry upon it."
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Jim Logajan said:
As far back as 1946 the U.S. Supreme court in United States v. Causby stated:

"Flights of aircraft over private land which are so low and frequent as to be a direct and immediate interference with the enjoyment and use of the land are as much an appropriation of the use of the land as a more conventional entry upon it."
Click to expand...

Thank you. I was unaware of that decision.

Open season on drones.;)

Now, are drones "aircraft"?
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Jim Logajan said:
You misunderstand - you are a nobody. No one is going to be spend any time and effort snooping on you unless or until you make a nuisance of yourself above and beyond all the other people who become such.
Click to expand...
No, I do not misunderstand. That attitude strikes me as a pretty naive. Relying on obscurity and conformity to assure my privacy does not strike me as an intelligent long term approach.

And what if I am not "a nobody"? Does that mean I should have to put up with video equipped quadcopters hovering over the back yard to see what color Speedo I'm wearing today?
Jim Logajan said:
First it was black helicopters that the paranoid feared - now it is the black drones.
Click to expand...
Paranoia and fear have nothing to do with it. You seem to think (or at least you said) "unless there is something interesting about you or your property, ain't nobody going to be overflying your property." My point is... I really don't care if you or anyone else finds me or my property interesting or not. Intrusion is intrusion.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

DaleB said:
You seem to think (or at least you said) "unless there is something interesting about you or your property, ain't nobody going to be overflying your property." My point is... I really don't care if you or anyone else finds me or my property interesting or not. Intrusion is intrusion.
Click to expand...

Unless your property was already heavily fortified from ground intrusion prior to now, I don't see how drones change anything at all regarding intrusions. You have the same rights to deal with aerial drone intrusions as you have to deal with ground intrusions.
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

Jim Logajan said:
Unless your property was already heavily fortified from ground intrusion prior to now, I don't see how drones change anything at all regarding intrusions. You have the same rights to deal with aerial drone intrusions as you have to deal with ground intrusions.
Click to expand...
So you can shoot private drones at will, but if you shoot a cop drone you get charged with murder and the drone gets a state funeral.:yikes:
 
Jim Logajan said:
Sure, once the new phone books have arrived you're somebody.



Those 30 privately owned drones are trespassing. As far back as 1946 the U.S. Supreme court in United States v. Causby stated:



"Flights of aircraft over private land which are so low and frequent as to be a direct and immediate interference with the enjoyment and use of the land are as much an appropriation of the use of the land as a more conventional entry upon it."
Click to expand...


I suspect that law would be tossed for overlying "needs of public safety" if the drones were government operated. It should have he word "privately operated" injected before the word "aircraft".
 
Re: Drone operators free to operate commercially in U.S. airspace, rules federal judg

We have a local "upstanding" business owner that has a drone with a camera. His wife was telling me last year how he liked to fly it around their home and the neighboring homes as well. She thought it was cute.:D Her husband, told me how he could fly it above the neighbor's fence and around his pool, ha ha big fun! :rofl: Right? The problem is I know he's a peeping Tom, my next door neighbor caught him when his wife saw someone peeking through their window 20 years ago. He couldn't prove it, because when he got outside "Tom" was out there too, looking for the culprit. :dunno: Like OJ looking for the real killer. :mad2:
So, this is the only drone owner I know. :rolleyes:
 
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