drawing on maps in Foreflight

[Unit74]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to draw on maps. Read the manual and can't find it. All I really want to do is draw holds and SIDs for reference.

I can pull up the plates and draw, but not on the maps page. I don't want it on the plates, I want iton the IFR low chart.

I'm sure this is simple, but I've wasted an hour trying to find out how.

 

[wsuffa]

Grease pencil works. You're welcome.

 

[MAKG1]

That is one of two MAJOR problems with Foreflight for IFR.

The other is a lack of a timer on the approach plates.

Avare will let you draw on the charts.

It's why I've dumped Foreflight for paper.

 

[Clark1961]

Grease pencil works. You're welcome.

following with whiteout got too messy, especially in rough air, so now I just use plastiic wrap and a sharpie...

 

[geoffeg]

You cannot draw on the maps, because to draw things you move your finger around the screen. On the maps page you move your finger around to pan the map.

You can, however, draw something on the plate in the Plates view and those annotations will show up on the map if you overlay the plate on the map. Open a plate in the Plate view, tap on the pencil and annotate the plate. Then tap the Send To button and tap "Map". Once you've overlaid the plate on the map, if the annotations aren't showing up, tap the "Gear" icon on the plate in the Maps view and scroll down to the bottom to select "Show Annotations".

 

[petrolero]

That is one of two MAJOR problems with Foreflight for IFR.

The other is a lack of a timer on the approach plates.

Avare will let you draw on the charts.

It's why I've dumped Foreflight for paper.

I don't think this rises to the level of an all-caps MAJOR problem.

I will agree that both the timer and map drawing are omissions, and could perhaps rise to the level of a PITA occasionally if you aren't /G. But who is flying IFR without a timer anyway? I prefer a watch with a vibrate feature for timing anyway (I use a Pebble watch currently).

It would be a nice feature but en route holds are rare and, if given, are usually simple straight-ahead, direct-entry affairs.

If I'm on a direct routing (/G, off airway) I usually don't even open the low en route chart. It has nothing I need that I can't get on the sectional. But yes it would be nice at times to be able to draw on the map. Just not a bfd in my opinion.

 

[MAKG1]

That's an awful lot of messing around to draw the custom hold you've just been given while enroute.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to draw on maps.

Because you can't. It's the one of the very few items left on my ForeFlight wish list. You can draw on charts (approach taxi diagrams, etc) and documents, but not on the maps.

Some other EFB apps have it. I suspect there is something about the way the FF developers use the map page that either makes it more difficult or precludes it altogether.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That's an awful lot of messing around to draw the custom hold you've just been given while enroute.

Yep, it definitely is one of the areas where paper does a better job and, as I noted, it's been on my wish list. Fore a long time. But Court of Appeals know, I haven't missed it. Unpublished en route holds are rare and, as petrolero mentioned, when given, they tend to be simple direct entries.

I wonder of that was the real reason it's not there - a lot of work with very little in real in-flight usefulness (the somewhat artificial IFR training environment aside).

It's why I've dumped Foreflight for paper.

You have a paper timer? Wow!

 

[midlifeflyer]

You cannot draw on the maps, because to draw things you move your finger around the screen. On the maps page you move your finger around to pan the map.

You can, however, draw something on the plate in the Plates view...

...where you also move your finger around the screen to pan the plate. That's why there's the pencil icon on the plate - to change the function of moving your finger.

 

[EdFred]

Plane is supposed to have a clock/timer installed if flying IFR.

Use that one.

 

[petrolero]

Plane is supposed to have a clock/timer installed if flying IFR.

Use that one.

True and in any case I've never met an IFR pilot who doesn't have some clever method of timing in addition to the installed timer.

Sure it would be cool if FF had a dedicated timing setup but that isn't even a halfway logical reason to drop Foreflight as a tool in my opinion.

Nor is the inability to draw on the maps. Yes paper makes that possible but paper has quite a few disadvantages also. Preference. To each pilot his own.

 

[MAKG1]

You have a paper timer? Wow!

I have a wristwatch.

As a matter of workload management, I don't like bringing many individual tools into play when it can be avoided. Especially during an approach.

Every legal IFR plane has a clock, but a stopwatch works more appropriately for timing FAF to MAP. Once again, workload management. And there is a similar issue with timed turns.

It's not hard to get task saturated while flying a procedure turn into a localizer while taking a handoff to Tower, for instance, so there is a premium for tools at ones fingertips. Not pulling up another app or hunting through various screens, or even letting go of the yoke to turn the stopwatch on (that will work in calm wind, but a bit of turbulence can be rather unpleasant).

The only disadvantage to paper I've run across so far is looking up an unanticipated approach plate. They are easier to see, easier to manipulate, require less attention, and take up a lot less room (they don't need a dedicated lapboard, and can share a clip with a checklist).

 

[petrolero]

The only disadvantage to paper I've run across so far is looking up an unanticipated approach plate. They are easier to see, easier to manipulate, require less attention, and take up a lot less room (they don't need a dedicated lapboard, and can share a clip with a checklist).

So your paper chart plots your current position with weather overlaid? Pretty badass paper.

Sorry I'm being a smartass but if that's the ONLY disadvantage you've found (paper vs EFB) then I suspect you're ignoring a few.

Flight planning is the A#1 reason I prefer the EFB. Vastly faster than paper. You aren't using a pencil and plotter are you?

 

[MAKG1]

So your paper chart plots your current position with weather overlaid? Pretty badass paper.

Sorry I'm being a smartass but if that's the ONLY disadvantage you've found (paper vs EFB) then I suspect you're ignoring a few.

Flight planning is the A#1 reason I prefer the EFB. Vastly faster than paper. You aren't using a pencil and plotter are you?

An EFB does not plot your position. It shows charts and documents.

Many of the iPad apps do show your position, but it is not trustworthy, and I've had mine try to get me to bust several times. You should never depend on your iToy to know where you are. If you're citing the iPad as a help in this regard, I think you're depending on it more than you're admitting to.

They have a nice planning aspect, but I don't do that in the airplane. I can estimate a diversion pretty quickly without it, and with a whole lot less fiddling.

And I have been known to pull out the plotter for some flights, such as finding search grids. Yes, you can follow the magenta line, but you have to deal with user waypoints to do it.

My iPad doesn't overlay weather either in the airplane. It does it on the ground. And not very well.

 

[EdFred]

I've had zero issue with mine EFB/GPS. Then again it doesn't sit on my lap, nor is it an Apple product. I can pull up an approach in that faster than I can dig through paper. Info -> airport -> plates -> select plate. Less than 10 seconds, maybe less than 5.

 

[tree96]

You can, however, draw something on the plate in the Plates view and those annotations will show up on the map if you overlay the plate on the map. Open a plate in the Plate view, tap on the pencil and annotate the plate. Then tap the Send To button and tap "Map". Once you've overlaid the plate on the map, if the annotations aren't showing up, tap the "Gear" icon on the plate in the Maps view and scroll down to the bottom to select "Show Annotations".

It does require a Pro subscription though.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I've had zero issue with mine EFB/GPS. Then again it doesn't sit on my lap, nor is it an Apple product. I can pull up an approach in that faster than I can dig through paper. Info -> airport -> plates -> select plate. Less than 10 seconds, maybe less than 5.

I've had exactly the same experience as you, zero issues, but with an Apple product.

I gotta guess if someone is consistently seeing errors and there is not something seriously wrong with their unit (whatever it is), it is most likely user error. (I count user decisions such as cockpit placement and continuing to use internal GPS after seeing discrepancies as "user error".)

If I recall your graphics of your setup correctly, yours is in a permanent location which I am guessing you selected for convenience, access, and the avoidance of interference. I try to do my best to accomplish that with my non-permanent placement since I don't personally own what I fly, and so far it's worked out pretty well.

 

[midlifeflyer]

BTW, in a similar "paper or plastic" thread in another forum (I'm sure the discussion has been goingon since AFD supplanted Radio Range, and probably before then), someone recalling the "good old days" remembered unfolding a chart only to have the well-worn fold lines make the chart break apart immediately

 

[EdFred]

If I recall your graphics of your setup correctly, yours is in a permanent location which I am guessing you selected for convenience, access, and the avoidance of interference. I try to do my best to accomplish that with my non-permanent placement since I don't personally own what I fly, and so far it's worked out pretty well.

Correct, it's "permanently" installed with Gorilla Tape.
When the person before me (or maybe the one before him) had the panel done, they cut out the MFD square in the panel right next to the 430. My unit slides right in, and connects to ship's power on a DC (cigarette lighter) adapter I had installed behind the panel. It kinda stays in place from friction, but I wanted to be a bit more secure with the "install".

I never have to look down, nothing is on my yoke, it doesn't block any other instruments, spatial disorientation from looking down at something never happens, and it opens up my lap for a scratch pad to write down frequencies/amended routes/weather info.

 

[petrolero]

An EFB does not plot your position. It shows charts and documents.

Many of the iPad apps do show your position, but it is not trustworthy, and I've had mine try to get me to bust several times. You should never depend on your iToy to know where you are. If you're citing the iPad as a help in this regard, I think you're depending on it more than you're admitting to.

They have a nice planning aspect, but I don't do that in the airplane. I can estimate a diversion pretty quickly without it, and with a whole lot less fiddling.

And I have been known to pull out the plotter for some flights, such as finding search grids. Yes, you can follow the magenta line, but you have to deal with user waypoints to do it.

My iPad doesn't overlay weather either in the airplane. It does it on the ground. And not very well.

I guess I'm referring to my Stratus/FF combo or other remote GPS/EFB combos I've used in the past. I'm not referring to using the ipad's internal GPS, which I have never done. In any case, the EFB is far more than just maps. It is also a comprehensive database and weather display. I understand that maybe you don't have an external receiver but many of us do in order to bring full functionality to the iPad.

And I'm confused... are you saying you use your EFB for planning on the ground and then ditch it when airborne? Why would one do that? Is the pencil line on the paper easier to follow than the one on the EFB? Maybe you have an older EFB - I don't know. I'm talking FF and WingX as my mental reference.

You have several times referenced "fiddling" and I guess you imagine there is no "fiddling" with paper. I learned to fly with paper and flew for a decade plus with paper. There is plently of "fiddling" with paper.

I respect your preference, I just don't think the arguments presented here for doing so are compelling when compared to a FF/Stratus combo.

You didn't mention cost of equipment so I will. The cost of an iPad is not insignificant nor is the stratus and that is an impediment for many people. But the iPad is also usable for more than just flying so attributing all that cost to flying is unwarranted for most people (even if they initially buy it for flying as I did).

Vaya con papel I guess.

 

[midlifeflyer]

And I'm confused... are you saying you use your EFB for planning on the ground and then ditch it when airborne? Why would one do that? Is the pencil line on the paper easier to follow than the one on the EFB? Maybe you have an older EFB - I don't know. I'm talking FF and WingX as my mental reference.

You have several times referenced "fiddling" and I guess you imagine there is no "fiddling" with paper. I learned to fly with paper and flew for a decade plus with paper. There is plently of "fiddling" with paper.

Of course there is fiddling with paper.

MAKG has a well-documented preference for paper in the cockpit and sees an EFB as nothing more than a toy, an untrustworthy one. Each of his posts demonstrates the bias, just as other posts demonstrate their authors' biases.