Draco crash on takeoff 16 Sept 2019

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Mike Blackburn, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. Mike Blackburn

    Mike Blackburn Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mrb13676
  2. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    8,695
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PaulS
    Looks like a pretty good crosswind. Hope everyone is ok.
     
  3. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,191
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    Sometimes our decisions are very quickly evaluated in this business.
     
    flightwriter and TipTanks like this.
  4. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    26,008
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    Better day to just stay on the ground. Holey yikes, that was a crosswind!
     
  5. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    9,659
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    he'll fix it......all is good. ;)
     
    IK04 likes this.
  6. mr_happyland

    mr_happyland Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    mr_happyland
    Damn. Draco is a beast. Seems like they should be OK. Time to get "back to work"!!
     
  7. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,937
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    He could have (should have) taken off across the runway.
     
  8. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    9,659
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    yup....and or lowering the nose, less hot dog on the takeoff, woulda prevented that spin entry.
     
    Grum.Man likes this.
  9. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,093
    Location:
    NEPA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
    Looks like there might have been a gust in an already strong crosswind. There’s a little rope closer to camera guy on ground that almost makes it look like the gust was more of a tailwind.
     
  10. Flybuddy

    Flybuddy Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2019
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Fort Myers FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Flybuddy
    If you look close at the left aileron it appears it had full upward deflection which would have been the correct input.
     
  11. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,937
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Watch the flaps.
     
  12. mr_happyland

    mr_happyland Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    mr_happyland
    I didn’t see any “ hot dogging” just gusty winds
     
  13. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,391
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    In one of those ironic twists, this is from 9/11:
    "Loss of DRACO. Sad week and loss for Draco, myself and friends. No, Draco has not crashed or been damaged but it feels a bit like it. I’m heartbroken to report that DRACO airshow performances and racing is over. I have attached a short compilation of DRACO performances and trips from Florida to Alaska and everywhere in between.

    What happened? Sadly in an effort to cross off a bucket list item and race Draco at Reno, I inadvertently lost insurance coverage for all show performances. I am not upset with the insurance companies, we should all be grateful for every company who supports aviation. My provider and underwriter did everything possible to work past this and I am forever grateful to them for the attempt and efforts to get me insured, but after working on this for over a month, time has run out and I just can’t bring myself to pay $45,000/year to do a couple events."

    This from Mike today:
     
  14. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,391
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    The wonky Wilga gear setup sure didn't help.
     
    IK04 likes this.
  15. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,391
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    I didn't see a spin, but I did see a ground loop.
     
  16. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,949
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    At about 2:00 he says "...If I, heaven forbid, ground loop my aircraft..." I think the Gods were angry
     
  17. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    6,949
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    The man is a class act. Accepts responsibility and puts it right out there so we all can maybe learn something.

     
    1RTK1, tjfelles, flightwriter and 3 others like this.
  18. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Cue the conspiracy theories that he crashed on purpose to put it to the insurance company.
     
  19. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    10,207
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Funny you say that, because that was the very first idea that came to mind.
     
  20. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Statesville NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Grum.Man
    Standup guy but yes had he not been showing off he probably would have been fine which I’m sure he fully admits.
     
  21. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,937
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    I don't see anyone saying he was hot dogging. I don't guess most of you have flown a highly modified high lift wing with slats and such? Crosswinds are a problem. Operating across or diagonally on the runway is common practice. Clearly he was bucking a crosswind from the beginning of the clip but when he added flaps is when he lost control. There's a lesson in that.
     
  22. Fast Leroy

    Fast Leroy Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Messages:
    22
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Leroy
    The mighty Draco crashed today. Glad pilot is ok...

     
  23. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    9,659
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    you don't pitch up like that bro....cept when you're hot dogg'n. lower the nose....or lower angle of attack....and or raise flaps....and takeoff into the wind. Basic stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  24. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Isn't that the whole point of that design?
     
  25. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,391
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    If you watch the video to which I linked, he says it was his fault. I saw no "showing off". He was just leaving for home.
     
  26. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    9,659
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    no....
     
  27. Collin Kaufman

    Collin Kaufman Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    71
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ckflyer13


    Looks like everyone is OK. Mike seems pretty beat up about it. I can't imagine seeing years and years of labor and planning going down the drain so quickly.
     
  28. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Statesville NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Grum.Man
    I did watch the video and yes given the winds he pulled it off way sooner than he should have showing off. Nothing wrong with rolling in the mains until you get enough airspeed going over the ailerons to maintain level flight. Still falls in the pilot error bucket he admits to. Lots of pressure put on you as a YouTube star and airshow pilot to constantly put on a show.
     
    Checkout_my_Six likes this.
  29. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,937
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Posting that clip for the fourth time is SO much better than three!
     
  30. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    2,391
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kenny Phillips
    One interesting note: for Mike Patey, a huge project such as Draco takes months, not years. Most of the design/construction is on his YT channel.
     
    flightwriter and Checkout_my_Six like this.
  31. Ryanb

    Ryanb Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    10,207
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Hard for me to tell when he pulled it off vs. when the winds actually took over.
     
  32. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    9,659
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    If you haven't seen it.....I can post it again. lol :)
     
  33. idahoflier

    idahoflier Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2017
    Messages:
    661
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    idahoflier
    That sucks! I certainly echo that Mike Patey is a class act. I didn't see any showboating...
     
    skyking3286 and TipTanks like this.
  34. mr_happyland

    mr_happyland Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2013
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    mr_happyland
    Haha. You don’t read the thread for 5 minutes and that happens lol

    Deleted
     
  35. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,191
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    Please. I missed it up thread
     
  36. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    15,494
    Location:
    kojc, kixd, k34
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Matthew
    "This runway is short, but it sure is wide."

    It might be just the camera angle, but it almost looks like the upwind wing is sitting higher than the downwind wing even before the takeoff roll. Is the engine torque on that airplane strong enough to do that?
     
  37. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    1,426
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    LNXGUY
    If you watched his build videos, you will know that the one thing he has never liked is the landing gear. He has always hated it and completely redesigned the shocks into a dual setup to try to help with all the wobble on takeoff. He usually hold the brakes and bottoms out the gear to try and keep the plane from leaning over and catching a crosswind under the upwind wing.

    That's exactly what happened here and he almost predicted it. He's probably angry at himself for letting it go this long before re-engineering it again.
    He'll have plenty of time to get it right when he rebuilds it into Draco2!
     
  38. TipTanks

    TipTanks Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    146
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    TipTanks
    Looks to me like the whole airplane is leaning! He is a class act and takes full responsibility. I am sure that won't stop the peanut gallery here.
     
    danhagan likes this.
  39. flhrci

    flhrci Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    5,088
    Location:
    Ashville, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    David
    Don't know but I am sure we, err, the insurance will pay for a brand new plane for him. No sympathy other than no one got hurt. Probably has sponsors to pay for it also.
     
  40. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,640
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OkieAviator
    Crazy to see, this dude spends a lot of time, money and effort on his builds. Glad he's not hurt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
    PaulS likes this.