Dog in schools to stop guns

ron22

ron22

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Ron Hammer
ron22 said:
http://www.officer.com/news/11224374/advocates-believe-k-9s-could-make-schools-safer


Other then allergies and asthma this sounds like a plan most people could handle.

This is not in the Spin Zone lets see if we can keep it that way.
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Allergies and asthma would be the deal breaker, no matter how great an idea it might be. All bureaucracies cater to the lowest denominator, so if only one child becomes ill or upset by the presence of a dog, then the dog can not be deployed in any school in that jurisdiction.

-John
 
Retarded. A dog would do nothing. More security in your face theatre.
 
Allergies/asthma would be an obstacle, but not necessarily insurmountable unless it is litigated/politicized as John suggested bureaucrats would obstruct.

The risk of allergies/asthma could probably be minimized to acceptable levels, by limiting contact with the dogs. Dogs could be used at entrances and if need be outside of entrances to minimize the risk of asthma/allergy reactions.

Alert dogs are far from foolproof. Though they are a good layer of security.

Though it is a shame that our schools are becoming concentration camps. Each generation is having their civil rights incrementally violated.

When this country was founded, many children used to carry guns back and forth from home to church and school. Some schools allegedly still have shooting ranges. Some churches and schools used to have gun racks.

Regretfully we are becoming a police state.
 
Some unanswered questions in that article.

Is the dog simply going to detect guns?
What will the dog do if confronted by a gun?
Will the dog be capable of differentiating between ordinary tussles between students and the threat of an attacker?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Retarded. A dog would do nothing. More security in your face theatre.
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I agree but it seems like the least intrusive and annoying possible solution and if it makes the people who are afraid feel better then why not?



No Joy said:
Though it is a shame that our schools are becoming concentration camps. Each generation is having their civil rights incrementally violated.

When this country was founded, many children used to carry guns back and forth from home to church and school. Some schools allegedly still have shooting ranges. Some churches and schools used to have gun racks.

Regretfully we are becoming a police state.
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I agree, it's especially sad when you actually look at the statistics and realize that it's actually as safe as it ever was and school is still one of the safest places a kid can be.

Much like with terrorism and the TSA though, the public is panicked despite the odds and demands action. The politicians do the only things they can do which are largely useless and infringe on everyone's freedom.

I don't know what the deal is, but the general public seems to just be a lot less tolerant of risk than it used to be. We're probably safer than we've ever been so you'd think people would feel safer but we see everything getting locked down... just in case. What changed? That's the part I can't figure out.
 
cowman said:
I agree but it seems like the least intrusive and annoying possible solution and if it makes the people who are afraid feel better then why not?





I agree, it's especially sad when you actually look at the statistics and realize that it's actually as safe as it ever was and school is still one of the safest places a kid can be.

Much like with terrorism and the TSA though, the public is panicked despite the odds and demands action. The politicians do the only things they can do which are largely useless and infringe on everyone's freedom.

I don't know what the deal is, but the general public seems to just be a lot less tolerant of risk than it used to be. We're probably safer than we've ever been so you'd think people would feel safer but we see everything getting locked down... just in case. What changed? That's the part I can't figure out.
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That line of thinking above is what got us here. We're now seeing the results of more than a full generation having gone through the public school new age thinking where feelings are more important than facts. They know nothing else. No need to learn the three R's, let us teach you how to feel good about yourself. Logic and critical thinking? Pooey. You tried out for the team - you get a trophy! Pregnant at 14? No shame in that, we'll provide daycare on campus. Not fair to make fun of someone by saying they're on food stamps, we'll call it SNAP, or WIC, we'll make it fun and you can even cash them in at ATM's to buy drugs, crack whores or gamble it away - after all, lazy people wanna have fun too, who are you to say they can't? If just one person is offended, everyone must accommodate them. If we can just save one life, no cost is too great - either monetary or liberty. You're a cold hearted bastard if you think otherwise.

Now we have Common Core to deal with, which if not uprooted will have brainwashed the next generation to become Muslims and/or communists. Look into it, downright scary - if you liked the old America.

There is no single thing that changed, it's been decades of "them" winning lots of little battles and never giving up on their cause. And with each little victory it started with people saying "what's the big deal?", "it's only a little bit" (aka "I'll only put the tip in") or "we need to compromise / be bi-partisan", instead of sticking to the founding principals that made this (once) great nation.

So, no, I don't think gun sniffing dogs in school are a good idea.
 
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How exactly are dogs trained to detect guns anyway? :dunno:

Limited access into the schools and metal detectors would serve as a better deterrent. That's as close as we'll ever get and you don't have to feed the metal detectors or worry about PETA coming to their defense.
 
LandSickness said:
How exactly are dogs trained to detect guns anyway? :dunno:

Limited access into the schools and metal detectors would serve as a better deterrent. That's as close as we'll ever get and you don't have to feed the metal detectors or worry about PETA coming to their defense.
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I carried a ton of metal stuff in school. Hole punch, scissors, compass, etc
 
I am not big on the idea of cops and metal detectors because next thing you know we will have TSA and body scanners at the schools.

From the article it says the Dogs are trained to the smell of gunpowder.

Personally I am not sure about the dogs. How many false positives would you get and the Dogs would have Kids backed up into a corner.
 
cowman said:
I don't know what the deal is, but the general public seems to just be a lot less tolerant of risk than it used to be. We're probably safer than we've ever been so you'd think people would feel safer but we see everything getting locked down... just in case. What changed? That's the part I can't figure out.
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My dad used to say (before he became senile), "what this country needs is a good famine".
 
The difference is that when I went to school , then college, no one, no one had any fear of someone coming into any school and killing anyone. No one had any fear of being gunned down in a movie theatre. No one. My cousin and I hunted a lot when young but if either had had access to a pistol or an ak 47 type weapon and taken it home, they would have been taken away from us immed! We were very respectful of the police, game wardens, the government in general. In the airforce when I served, ALL weapons were carefully controlled. No one strolled around a base with a weapon, only the air police had a weapon. The only people issued a weapon was an aircrew person which was turned in upon landing. If you were caught with a weapon on the base you would go to jail. This was in the U.S. Not in combat.
 
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It's the gun oil that the dogs smell, along with any powder residue that might be in the gun or on the bullets. Most guns do have a distinctive smell.

The problem with that would be as soon as the kids figured out what it was the dogs were reacting to, they would all be walking around with gun oil dropped on the shoes or what not just to screw with the dogs and their handlers.

Well, maybe not, I think that the schools now put all free thinking or non team player kids on Retlin or some other mind altering chemical handcuff.

-John
 
Already have service dogs in many schools. Then you get into the how do you coordinate the conflicting needs of two students. My wife was a special ed teacher for years ... it can be daunting.
 
Instead of the dog alerting on guns (or the oil or powder), how about the dog just being there to take out a bad guy that comes into the school?
 
Bob Noel said:
Instead of the dog alerting on guns (or the oil or powder), how about the dog just being there to take out a bad guy that comes into the school?
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Why not sharks with lasers on their heads? How about remote control machine guns mounted in the hallway? Get a live shooter and the principal can finish him off from his office. Yeah Murca.
/Sarcasm disclaimer, cause you never know...
 
Okay, now let me get this straight.

The hoplophobes are terrified by inanimate objects which only do things when someone is holding them, but it's okay to have a weapon with a mind of its own wandering the hallways, so long as it's cute and furry?
 
cowman said:
I agree but it seems like the least intrusive and annoying possible solution and if it makes the people who are afraid feel better then why not?
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Same argument for starting TSA.

It's not the least intrusive. Allowing folks to defend themselves is. You'd never know they were doing so, when done correctly.

And nothing truly makes the afraid feel better.

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself." Not their style.

What government and people in general can't handle is the randomness of violence in drugged up idiots. They want a guarantee that every building and every scenario anyone can dream up will have the same good outcome.

It's not possible.

Henning can insert wisdom about the entropy of energy here. :)

But truly the vast majority of mass murders haven't been illogical or random at all.

The logical person looks at these broken-brained people whom everyone who's ever come into contact with them, including their parents, say are eventually going to hurt someone, and the societal response of drugging them up with SSRIs known to induce suicidal tendencies in many patients, and turning them loose to hope they take them, and say...

"Yup. That nutbag's pretty likely to kill folks." The Aurora dude even sent his entire plan to his shrink. She sent it to the cops. Guess who took no action and has already spent a few hundred thousand of taxpayer's dollars to prepare for their upcoming Civil case?

Then they do it, and rational folk aren't the least surprised.

"Yeah, that was bound to happen. Can we see his medical records?"

"No. HIPAA. "

"Can we see his juvenile criminal record?"

"No. Sealed."

"Okay well the first reporter to call his mom's house recorded it and she said, 'Who did he hurt?'"

"Heresay. It must be the fault of millions of law abiding firearms owners because he used a firearm."

"You realize that makes no sense, right?"

"Don't care. Guns are bad. Comply with my wishes. I'm scared of them."

"I'm really sorry you're an idiot. Later."
 
P.S. Armed drones flown by TSA flying down school hallways ought to do it. Cheap too. ;)
 
cowman said:
I agree but it seems like the least intrusive and annoying possible solution and if it makes the people who are afraid feel better then why not?

I agree, it's especially sad when you actually look at the statistics and realize that it's actually as safe as it ever was and school is still one of the safest places a kid can be.

Much like with terrorism and the TSA though, the public is panicked despite the odds and demands action. The politicians do the only things they can do which are largely useless and infringe on everyone's freedom.

I don't know what the deal is, but the general public seems to just be a lot less tolerant of risk than it used to be. We're probably safer than we've ever been so you'd think people would feel safer but we see everything getting locked down... just in case. What changed? That's the part I can't figure out.
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I don't really believe the public is panicked. Is the general public showing up en masse at city hall meetings demanding action on guns in schools? No, at least not around here, or anywhere else I've seen. Instead, what we have is politicians and bureaucrats looking to do something to fill their day and justify their own positions. They are prodded by the media, if anything, continuously looking for a story in order to increase circulation to sell more ads. CNN dictates policy today more than the people. I don't really think there are a bunch of parents who dropped their kids off today and are worried that they'll get shot. In reality, getting shot at school is probably not in the top 50 ways they are most likely to die.

The downside to the dogs is the cost. It'll become another "gotta have it because we've always done it that way" program that has an enormous cost with little or probably no quantifiable benefit.
 
So there are dogs you would trust around kids that are aggressive enough to attack someone with a gun? Sounds like a fantasy to me . . .
 
So what happens when the dog is out back taking a crap, and a shooter comes in the front of the school?
 
JB1842 said:
So what happens when the dog is out back taking a crap, and a shooter comes in the front of the school?
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The dog was clearly negligent and will have to be sued by the victims. Then we'll have to have mandatory dog insurance. However, since dogs can't typically afford insurance we'll have to pass some new law. The Affordable Dog act will require every American to carry dog insurance at a certain level of coverage.
 
cowman said:
The dog was clearly negligent and will have to be sued by the victims. Then we'll have to have mandatory dog insurance. However, since dogs can't typically afford insurance we'll have to pass some new law. The Affordable Dog act will require every American to carry dog insurance at a certain level of coverage.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Metal detectors would be worth the hassle. Or, you could designate a teacher or staff member as conceal carry hall monitor for each floor of the school? :dunno: I'm sure you'd have little trouble getting volunteers. A handgun range training stipend would be cheaper than employing dogs, handlers, metal detectors, detectives, et al.
 
LandSickness said:
Metal detectors would be worth the hassle. Or, you could designate a teacher or staff member as conceal carry hall monitor for each floor of the school? :dunno: I'm sure you'd have little trouble getting volunteers. A handgun range training stipend would be cheaper than employing dogs, handlers, metal detectors, detectives, et al.
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I think you can forget about concealed carry. People in education tend towards the liberal side and will never be ok with allowing "evil guns" around children. Maybe in some rural areas/red states that might fly but I doubt it.

I think a lot of the big city schools already have metal detectors.

My personal choice would be to just tell everyone that by any measure possible your kids are safer at school than anywhere else, including your house. And to inform them that, however tragic and dramatic, the school shooting incidents are incredibly rare. Lightning strikes are probably more of a concern.

...and this is why I can't ever run for office. People don't elect officials who tell them things they don't want to hear.
 
Some schools are allowing trained CPL holder teachers to carry in school. As a CPL holder, the only problem I have with that is simply that a crowded room/hallway is a poor place to try to take out an attacker for fear of hitting innocents. It's really a double edge sword.

Were I in that situation I would want a clear shot at the perp with minimal chances of hitting an innocent. That can be tough to come by in a crowded room.
 
So the guy comes in the door shooting. But the metal detector beeping scare him off?
 
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