Does writen test score matters?

[gil_mor]

IR studying is going well, and I'm about ready to take my written.
(Only studied for 5 months)...

My PPL CFI told me - "Try to nail as many as you can, because the examiner WILL ask you about topics you answered wrong on the written."

My current CFII tells me - "Everything over 80 is a bonus, the examiner has no way to know what questions you got wrong, don't worry about it."

I'm pretty sure that if I'll take the test right now I'll get a good score, but should I push for above 90?

What do you think?

 

[RotorAndWing]

I
My PPL CFI told me - "Try to nail as many as you can, because the examiner WILL ask you about topics you answered wrong on the written."

My current CFII tells me - "Everything over 80 is a bonus, the examiner has no way to know what questions you got wrong, don't worry about it."

What do you think?

I think your CFII is a Buffoon.

 

[flygirl34q]

The score that you get on your written test has nothing to do with the kind of instrument pilot you will become... it only shows how well you can take a standardized test. And I think that the importance of your written score on the day of your checkride depends on the individual examiner... some may put a greater importance on it, some less. I don't recall being asked about my written exam score during the oral portion of my checkride, but I didn't give it a second thought since I did well on the test. I would just get past the written as best you can, since you seem confident about it at this point and from there put the emphasis on becoming the best instrument pilot you can be in the airplane because that is where it will count for the rest of your flying life. Your test score report will always just be something for your scrapbook!

 

[CJones]

IIRC, when you go to do your IR checkride, you will have to give the examiner a summary of the results of your written exam. That sheet will list your overall score as well as the sections that you missed questions in.

Be prepared to have a few extra questions on the oral specifically on the areas that you missed on the written.

 

[gil_mor]

So:
Rotor&Wing and CJones say - CFII is wrong.
flygirl34q say - CFII is right, but I should focus on being a good pilot, and not getting 95 instead of 85.

Guess I need more data

 

[denverpilot]

Best answer is: You passed. Now know the stuff better so you'll pass the oral.

 

[rpadula]

IIRC, when you go to do your IR checkride, you will have to give the examiner a summary of the results of your written exam. That sheet will list your overall score as well as the sections that you missed questions in.

Be prepared to have a few extra questions on the oral specifically on the areas that you missed on the written.

That's what I remember, too. There's a printout with codes that indicate in which subject areas you had incorrect answers.

So, why not aim for excellence (100)?

 

[pilot_dude]

Yes, the score matters. Anything sub-70 is failing.

 

[azure]

IIRC, when you go to do your IR checkride, you will have to give the examiner a summary of the results of your written exam. That sheet will list your overall score as well as the sections that you missed questions in.

This is what they told me at the testing center. In fact they said DO NOT LOSE IT, as it is difficult if not impossible to get a replacement copy.

So yes, the examiner will know which areas (not which questions, since the codes don't identify the question) you had trouble with. Your CFII is required to give you additional instruction on those areas, and in fact mine told me that that instruction has to be specifically logged.

 

[Jaybird180]

The score that you get on your written test has nothing to do with the kind of instrument pilot you will become...

Do you have any data to support that or are you parroting?

Not trying to be rude, but I have heard that often as an excuse for sub-optimal performance. I am only challenging, please forgive me if I present as brash.

 

[poadeleted20]

Rotor&Wing and CJones say - CFII is wrong.

That's not exactly what R&W said -- he just called the instructor "a buffoon."

In my experience doing 10-day instrument courses, the examiners usually don't check much beyond the "PASSED" label. A few look at the areas missed and check to see that the instructor who signed the recommendation actually logged ground training in those areas as required by the regs. Beyond that, I've seen no significant difference in the practical test itself. The examiners have a situation they've developed and a set of questions about that situation. They are going to ask all those questions, and they don't ask any more or fewer questions based on a 72 versus a 98 on the written.

As always, YMMV, and every examiner is different, but that' my general observation based on five years of giving 10-day IR courses and observing the ground portions of the practical tests.

 

[poadeleted20]

This is what they told me at the testing center. In fact they said DO NOT LOSE IT, as it is difficult if not impossible to get a replacement copy.

Annoying and time consuming, perhaps, but not impossible. Also, the examiner can find out using IACRA what you got on the test and what areas you missed even without that written report.

Your CFII is required to give you additional instruction on those areas, and in fact mine told me that that instruction has to be specifically logged.

The reg doesn't specifically say "additional instruction," but it does say the endorsing instructor must certify the applicant has "demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test," which I imagine would be hard to determine other than in the context of ground or flight training, which must be logged including the areas covered. Relevant regs include 61.51(b)(2)(iv) and 61.39(a)(6)(iii).

 

[poadeleted20]

The score that you get on your written test has nothing to do with the kind of instrument pilot you will become...

My experience doing 10-day IR courses suggests that while there's a fair correlation between written test score and success in training, it's not absolute. I've seen some with high scores who didn't know a darn thing and some with low scores who really knew the stuff the needed to complete the flight training, pass the practical test, and fly in the system. The training method seems more predictive. Those who only did one of those quicky "learn the answers" courses (either in class or on line) usually required a lot of extra training on the knowledge areas (like reading approach charts, weather, etc), regardless of their score on the written. Those who did a more in-depth training program (classroom ground school, interactive computer-based/on-line, lots of reading the manuals, etc) usually knew the material pretty well, again, regardless of their score on the written.

I don't recall being asked about my written exam score during the oral portion of my checkride,

They don't have to ask because you have to present the form with the score on it. However, I do not remember anyone else asking about what I got on any written test once I passed the practical test for that certificate/rating.

 

[Jaybird180]

The reg doesn't specifically say "additional instruction," but it does say the endorsing instructor must certify the applicant has "demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test," which I imagine would be hard to determine other than in the context of ground or flight training, which must be logged including the areas covered. Relevant regs include 61.51(b)(2)(iv) and 61.39(a)(6)(iii).

What if the endorsement came from an online or video course?

 

[poadeleted20]

What if the endorsement came from an online or video course?

The 61.39(a)(6) practical test endorsement cannot come from an online or video course. It can only come from a flight instructor who has given the trainee training during the preceding two calendar months. You may be confusing this with the 61.35(a)(1) endorsement for taking the written, which is another story entirely.

 

[denverpilot]

Plus, most of the online courses have staff CFI's who will contact you and offer to answer questions, see of you have feedback on their online system, and in a few cases where their company has done the appropriate legwork, sign off the course for Wings knowledge credit(s).

 

[Jaybird180]

Is Denver's answer applicable to 61.35a1 that Ron referenced?

 

[Bob Noel]

IR studying is going well, and I'm about ready to take my written.
(Only studied for 5 months)...

My PPL CFI told me - "Try to nail as many as you can, because the examiner WILL ask you about topics you answered wrong on the written."

My current CFII tells me - "Everything over 80 is a bonus, the examiner has no way to know what questions you got wrong, don't worry about it."

I'm pretty sure that if I'll take the test right now I'll get a good score, but should I push for above 90?

What do you think?

It's been <mumble> years since I've taken the written...way back when it really was a written.

Look at it this way:

You have to pass. It is my understanding that while the specific questions missed will not be identified, the subject areas are identified. The more areas you get wrong, the more areas examiner while likely quiz you on during the oral.

However, if you get a perfect score (or very high score), you won't know which areas to concentrate on for the oral.

But the bottomline is that you have to pass the knowledge test. Everything after that is a much lower priority.

 

[pilot_dude]

That's not exactly what R&W said -- he just called the instructor "a buffoon."

In my experience doing 10-day instrument courses, the examiners usually don't check much beyond the "PASSED" label. A few look at the areas missed and check to see that the instructor who signed the recommendation actually logged ground training in those areas as required by the regs. Beyond that, I've seen no significant difference in the practical test itself. The examiners have a situation they've developed and a set of questions about that situation. They are going to ask all those questions, and they don't ask any more or fewer questions based on a 72 versus a 98 on the written.

As always, YMMV, and every examiner is different, but that' my general observation based on five years of giving 10-day IR courses and observing the ground portions of the practical tests.

Good expansion of my response in post 8

 

[dennyleeb]

IR studying is going well, and I'm about ready to take my written.
(Only studied for 5 months)...

My PPL CFI told me - "Try to nail as many as you can, because the examiner WILL ask you about topics you answered wrong on the written."

My current CFII tells me - "Everything over 80 is a bonus, the examiner has no way to know what questions you got wrong, don't worry about it."

I'm pretty sure that if I'll take the test right now I'll get a good score, but should I push for above 90?

What do you think?

If you have been going at it for 5 months and don't make a 100% then something is wrong. You are over doing it. Getting a good base takes a few weeks. Another week to hit it hard on details. A week working on the old test and you will be great. Go take the test! Then finish up your ticket I know to many who take the written and never the checkride or oral. GO TAKE IT.

 

[poadeleted20]

Is Denver's answer applicable to 61.35a1 that Ron referenced?

Yes -- for the written test endorsement. But the 61.39 practical test endorsement must come from someone who's flown with you.

 

[Fearless Tower]

So:
Rotor&Wing and CJones say - CFII is wrong.
flygirl34q say - CFII is right, but I should focus on being a good pilot, and not getting 95 instead of 85.

Guess I need more data

Here's the thing....it all depends on the examiner!

Some people will tell you that examiners grill you harder on the oral if you get a perfect or near perfect score.

Some people will tell you that examiners will grill you harder on the subject areas you missed.

Some people will tell you that the examiner will go easy on you in the oral if you get a perfect score.

Some people will tell you that the examiner will be much tougher on the oral if you barely passed the written.

And guess what? They are ALL correct because not every examiner conducts the practical test the same. Unless your CFI really knows how the DPE rolls, then I don't think you can assume one way or another.

Just do your best. If you miss some, go back and figure out what you missed and learn from it - but don't put any excessive worry in what score you get. The oral exam and flight test are what really determine what kind of pilot you are. I like to think of the written as a stepping stone used to try and make sure you at least have enough background knowledge to make sure you aren't wasting the DPE's time.

 

[TMetzinger]

I think your CFII is a Buffoon.

Or an ultramaroon!

There's a reason you get knowledge codes back on your written results. There's a reason there's a key to what those codes mean.
There's a reason the DPE has the key, and your CFII should have it too.

If you passed, great. What matters is that you've corrected your deficiencies with follow-on study (which your CFII is supposed to supervise and endorse when he sends you for the practical test).

What sort of questions will the examiner give you? All depends on the examiner. All the IR knowledge is "in scope" and you can be quizzed on any of it as part of the oral. Don't sweat it. Know your stuff, do your best, and it will all work out.

 

[Ghery]

I got 100 on my PPL written. It didn't come up in the oral. I got 97 on my IR written. It didn't come up in the oral. Sample size = 1 for each. YMMV. Take the test, pass it. Then worry about the check ride. Two separate tests.

 

[p1l0t]

I got 100 on my PPL written. It didn't come up in the oral. I got 97 on my IR written. It didn't come up in the oral. Sample size = 1 for each. YMMV. Take the test, pass it. Then worry about the check ride. Two separate tests.

+1 they really are two seperate tests and anyway the examiner is going to ask you general questions in different areas and then quickly zoom in on the answers you studder on or sweat to see if you at least know where to look.

<---<^>--->

 

[denverpilot]

I like how the FAA gives you codes instead of plain English descriptions of what you jacked up. It's always preferable to require a secret decoder ring versus just reading the section title.

It lowers the amount of data that needs to be sent across their 1960's teletype circuits, just like METARs and such, I guess.

Raises awareness. Increases safety too. Don't'cha know.

:rollseyes:

Stuck on stupid.

 

[Adodero]

My current CFII tells me - "Everything over 80 is a bonus"

Mine said the same thing.

These tests are an exercise in how well you can take a test, not much else. I know plenty of people that aren't even pilots that could study overnight and pass it the next day, yet they couldn't fly instruments at all. If I had bombed the oral or the checkride, I'd be a little more concerned (depending on what it was), but getting a poor score on a government standardized test...meh. I really don't think that's an indication of flying ability at all.

IMO you should aim for the highest score you can, just for the margin, but getting a 70 vs a 100 isn't a real indication of flying ability. I'm more inclined to trust someone that spent more time flying than studying a standardized test.