Does the Cirrus SR20 have a yaw damper?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by kicktireslightfires, Jun 8, 2022.

  1. kicktireslightfires

    kicktireslightfires Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I searched Google and see mention of "optional yaw damper" in reviews for the SR20, but see no mention of a yaw damper in any packages or options offered on the current SR20 on Cirrus's website. For the SR22 and SR22T, on the options sheet it mentions a yaw damper included in the Cirrus Executive package (and the Cirrus Executive package isn't an option on the SR20).

    Is it true that SR20s have no yaw damper? I was told that every modern Cirrus has a yaw damper.
     
  2. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Yes. You will notice the button is missing from the autopilot control panel but it is an integrated optional Garmin feature that turns automatically on or off at 200 AGL..
     
  3. kicktireslightfires

    kicktireslightfires Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Interesting! Any evidence somewhere that the SR20 has a yaw damper? So every Cirrus made today does indeed have a yaw damper? Would that mean including the mention of a "yaw damper" in the Cirrus Executive package is just marketing BS since every Cirrus already has it?
     
  4. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard En-Route

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  5. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Peculiar, while maybe not standard it seems like an option. The Czech version of the Cirrus site states as such, as do many publications and reviews out there. https://cirrus.cz/en/sr20/ scroll to the digital autopilot part. Perhaps with the 22 it's packaged into another bundle while the SR20 requires as separate purchase of it?

    Otherwise, if you can't get it on the SR20 then it's a certainly an odd feature to exclude given that the SR20 comes with many other modern bells and whistles and accoutrement...
     
  6. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    All the SR-20s I've flown, from the g 2 to G 6 have not had a yaw damper. Pretty sure it is not an option. The 22s with perspective have it and I love it.
     
  7. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Guess I was wrong! I've been out of this Cirrus game for about 2 years now.. :(

    Still, given all the nice features the SR20 comes with it's peculiar to leave out the yaw damper

    To that point, can you get this on other lesser planes? There's a beater 172N in our club that surprisingly has a GFC autopilot with the yaw damper button. It obviously doesn't work as there's no servo, but is this even possible does anyone know?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2022
  8. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think you can get them if there is paperwork for it, but yaw dampers aren't cheap. That's probably why the 20s don't come with them, also they probably don't 'wiggle' as much as the 22 in turbulence.

    I did my instrument training in 20s, it is an awesome airplane. The G6 with the Lycoming is even better.

    Over on the copa board some guys with 22s call it a dog that doesn't climb or something like that. But I think the guys who say that haven't flown one or haven't flown a trainer.

    The 20s with the Lycoming cruise above 150 knots true and are a great cross country machine for 1 or 2 people. Put more in and you have to off load fuel, but still a great airplane.
     
  9. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I did my initial CSIP and about 75 hrs in an SR20, I agree. Great plane. It's no SR22, but compared to a PA-28 or C-172 it's leaps and bounds better. I've had four in an SR20 and had no problem departing Palm Springs on a hot summer day and climbing to 9,5 for the flight home

    The price disparity between a 20 and 22 is enormous though, nearly 100%.. I've always been curious if Cirrus is earning a better per unit margin on one vs the other. I imagine there are at least a few components and commonality the two share..
     
  10. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I didn't know you were a CSIP. So you really know Cirrus'. I love the 20, but the 22 with more payload and 20 knots faster has me roped in.

    The big complaint I had about the 20 was the engine would go thermonuclear on most days above 60 degrees. I attended a COPA event a couple years ago and the former test pilot manager for Cirrus gave a talk. One thing he mentioned was to make sure that you are getting the right fuel flow on take off and he gave the numbers. So the next time I was in a 20 I checked it out and sure enough, as the chts were going ballistic the fuel flow was at least a couple gph low. I squawked it with the people I rent from, it took a little bit, but the next time I flew a 20 it was great.

    As far as the price goes, Cirrus is charging what the market will bear, and there are a lot of Cirrus pilots who seem to love the amount of money the Cirrus now costs. It seems people are buying them and flipping them for a few 100k more than they paid. I'm patiently waiting for an adjustment to fix that. I think this fuel increase might be a catalyst.

    As far as the delta between the 20 and the 22, I really think that 20 buyers are not willing to spend hugely stupid money for one. Just hugely stupid money.
     
  11. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I'm sorry, I'm not.. I'm all over the place today. Busy week... sigh. I meant my initial transition with a CSIP
     
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  12. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nope. Not really necessary in my opinion. The 22 has one and is really nice, especially in a long climb.
     
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  13. kicktireslightfires

    kicktireslightfires Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I suppose this begs the question: What is the value of the yaw damper on a 200hp airplane? The higher the horsepower the more yaw during a climb, right? So did Cirrus find that the 200hp SR20 really doesn't need a yaw damper whereas the 300hp SR22 does benefit from it?

    Other than climb, where is the yaw damper in use? During turns? So when the autopilot is making turns in an airplane without a yaw damper, what happens? Either the pilot manually adds rudder in the turn, or you fly the turn uncoordinated?

    I guess I would need to fly an SR20 to really get a sense for how much of an annoyance it is without a yaw damper. Can anyone speak to what that's like on a G6 SR20 with the Lycoming IO-390?
     
  14. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    I don’t think a YD is for climbing, I thought it was to correct for yawing during turbulence.
    I understand the V tail bonanzas greatly benefit.
     
  15. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

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    I'm not aware of our ancient 2001 SR22 having one
     
  16. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    The G1 stec SR22 I was flying did not have one
     
  17. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    In the most basic terms it helps keep the ball centered. It's super helpful when there's turbulence and the plane starts fishtailing a bit. I have found if you try to counter that manually you kind of just make it worse, the yaw damper was really good at mitigating that in my SR22 experience
     
  18. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    Just finished a checkout in a 2007 SR20 - no yaw damper. I haven't noticed a need for one. The airplane is nice, and the STEC 55X AP does a good job. I'd not consider buying a Cirrus, though - plenty of other aircraft as capable but no so stupid expensive. At least for now.
     
  19. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You really need it on a 4 place plane with only 200hp? What’s the length from the pilot to the rear pax?

    Feet flat on the floor crowd?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
  20. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    The POH for a G1&G2 SR22 doesn’t mention anything about yaw damper.

    Here’s what it says about the rudder connection

    “The rudder provides airplane directional (yaw) control. The rudder is of conventional design with skin, spar and ribs manufactured of aluminum. The rudder is attached to the aft vertical stabilizer shear web at three hinge points and to the fuselage tailcone at the rudder control bell crank. Rudder motion is transferred from the rudder pedals to the rudder by a single cable system under the cabin floor to a sector next to the elevator sector pulley in the aft fuselage. A push-pull tube from the sector to the rudder bell crank translates cable motion to the rudder. Springs and a ground adjustable spring cartridge connected to the rudder pedal assembly tension the cables and provide centering force. A rudder-aileron interconnect is installed to provide a maximum of 5° down aileron with full rudder deflection. Right rudder input will cause right roll input and left rudder input will cause left roll input. With neutral aileron trim, aileron inputs will not cause rudder deflection.“