Does the >150NM Solo Cross Country require 3 landings at controlled airfields? Is my CFI wrong??

Did he not log them? Or just not filled out the solo column?

Did he have ways to prove the time like receipts from rental?

And you only need 15 hours. Should have just done that again to have it in the logbook.
The flights were logged, just not indicated as solo in any way. Receipts would not help since the issue wasn't whether the flights occurred, but whether they were solo.
Mark, I really don't think I understand this. That should be caught by the CFI long before the checkride, and the edits made. I know that of the Commercial students I've had, roughly 100% were in exactly the situation, and had stopped logging solo time. Heck, some paper logbooks don't even have a solo column.
I agree. It should definitely have been caught by his instructor.

And I agree that the existence or nonexistence of a solo column is irrelevant. There are so few solo hours required for the commercial, at most all it should take is a note in the Remarks.
 
Mark, I really don't think I understand this. That should be caught by the CFI long before the checkride, and the edits made. I know that of the Commercial students I've had, roughly 100% were in exactly the situation, and had stopped logging solo time. Heck, some paper logbooks don't even have a solo column.
My logbook does not have a solo column. I am just in the habit of logging in the remarks either solo or who is in the aircraft with me. If nothing else, looking back through it helps me to remember what that flight was.
 
My logbook does not have a solo column. I am just in the habit of logging in the remarks either solo or who is in the aircraft with me. If nothing else, looking back through it helps me to remember what that flight was.
My five logbooks have columns for solo, but nothing is logged in any of them, because I never needed it for anything.
 
I logged solo time for many years in case I wanted to join QB when they enforced a 500 hours of solo.

I just kept up the habit.
 
I logged solo time for many years in case I wanted to join QB when they enforced a 500 hours of solo.

I just kept up the habit.
There was a time, back maybe in the 30s and 40s or so, when "solo" meant basically the opposite of "dual", meaning without an instructor on board. In other words, you could have dual OR solo time, those were the two options. Any time without an instructor was "solo", whether or not other people were on board. I don't have the reference for this, but I saw it in some old version of the FARs, probably in 61.51 or equivalent.
 
There was a time, back maybe in the 30s and 40s or so, when "solo" meant basically the opposite of "dual", meaning without an instructor on board. In other words, you could have dual OR solo time, those were the two options. Any time without an instructor was "solo", whether or not other people were on board. I don't have the reference for this, but I saw it in some old version of the FARs, probably in 61.51 or equivalent.
I did some research on the history of logging PIC and found several variations of "solo," including this one from the 1942 CAR.

20.673 Logging of pilot flight time.​
***​
(b) The holder of a pilot certificate, other than a student pilot certificate, may log as solo flight time that portion of any flight during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls: Provided, That he may log as solo flight time only 50 percent of any flight time during which a certificated instructor or a certificated airline transport pilot is in the aircraft serving as an instructor for the purpose of reviewing or increasing such pilot's skill;​
 
I did some research on the history of logging PIC and found several variations of "solo," including this one from the 1942 CAR.

20.673 Logging of pilot flight time.​
***​
(b) The holder of a pilot certificate, other than a student pilot certificate, may log as solo flight time that portion of any flight during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls: Provided, That he may log as solo flight time only 50 percent of any flight time during which a certificated instructor or a certificated airline transport pilot is in the aircraft serving as an instructor for the purpose of reviewing or increasing such pilot's skill;​
I'm quite sure you must have posted that sometime in the past and it's what I (mostly) remembered.
 
I did some research on the history of logging PIC and found several variations of "solo," including this one from the 1942 CAR.

20.673 Logging of pilot flight time.​
***​
(b) The holder of a pilot certificate, other than a student pilot certificate, may log as solo flight time that portion of any flight during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls: Provided, That he may log as solo flight time only 50 percent of any flight time during which a certificated instructor or a certificated airline transport pilot is in the aircraft serving as an instructor for the purpose of reviewing or increasing such pilot's skill;​

Sounds almost as tricky* as logging actual IFR. "So, what part was the instructor not touching the controls? Was it .5 or did that time he was using his hands to brief the next maneuver count as solo time since his hands were off the controls? And were they off for 11min or 11.5min?"

* Tricky in the sense that you can easily go too far into the weeds to wring out every last bit of possible time
 
Sounds almost as tricky* as logging actual IFR. "So, what part was the instructor not touching the controls? Was it .5 or did that time he was using his hands to brief the next maneuver count as solo time since his hands were off the controls? And were they off for 11min or 11.5min?"

* Tricky in the sense that you can easily go too far into the weeds to wring out every last bit of possible time
The regs were much, much, simpler then.

And people have always looked at weeds - that may be a reason for today's complexity.
 
The regs do not require controlled vs uncontrolled nor do they require signatures. But all of your solos must be signed off by your CFI so seems like a moot point.
 
The regs do not require controlled vs uncontrolled nor do they require signatures. But all of your solos must be signed off by your CFI so seems like a moot point.
Requires a sign off for preflight planning only. No postflight signature needed.
 
QB changed that to PIC time, and now it appears they are going to lower the requirement to 300 hours.

Yeah, I realize, but still log solo as solo. 578 as of now. Flying a single seater helped. :D
 
Now that you have confirmed your understanding of the legal requirements, I would suggest discussing this with your CFI to understand his reasoning and/or flight school requirements.

Soooo... before executing the XC with the prescribed route, he happened to be taking a new incoming CFI on a tour of the facilities. I asked them both and they BOTH told me they believe that's what CFR specified. I said that I reviewed the regs and the 3 take-offs and landings at towered airports were separate from the Long XC, and both they said were sure but they would review it anyways. :confused2: It's not a flight school policy either.

Nevertheless, his actual rationale for the route was that it was easy to navigate, and the destinations was very likely to have low enough levels of traffic so I wouldn't have to burn fuel practicing endless 360s waiting for a spot in the pattern. Smart. :cool:

When I flew the prescribed route (KLZU KAHN KGRD KAHN KLZU), I also found there were plenty of ditching points. I got flight following (talked to Atlanta Satellite Approach, Greer Approach, and ZTL Ultra-Low), found and logged my visual references, scanned for emergency fields, got some pictures. Overall, I enjoyed the route despite it being an out-and-back. I reminded myself, I'm not up there to give myself a scenic tour.

I later realized that despite the CFIs being incorrect about the towered airport requirement on Cross-Country Flights, he helped me save some time... on the Commercial rating! Our training flight to prep the Long XC also satisfies 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(iii). We also did our night cross country (KLZU KAGS KLZU) to satisfy 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(iv).
 
Soooo... before executing the XC with the prescribed route, he happened to be taking a new incoming CFI on a tour of the facilities. I asked them both and they BOTH told me they believe that's what CFR specified. I said that I reviewed the regs and the 3 take-offs and landings at towered airports were separate from the Long XC, and both they said were sure but they would review it anyways. :confused2: It's not a flight school policy either.

Nevertheless, his actual rationale for the route was that it was easy to navigate, and the destinations was very likely to have low enough levels of traffic so I wouldn't have to burn fuel practicing endless 360s waiting for a spot in the pattern. Smart. :cool:

When I flew the prescribed route (KLZU KAHN KGRD KAHN KLZU), I also found there were plenty of ditching points. I got flight following (talked to Atlanta Satellite Approach, Greer Approach, and ZTL Ultra-Low), found and logged my visual references, scanned for emergency fields, got some pictures. Overall, I enjoyed the route despite it being an out-and-back. I reminded myself, I'm not up there to give myself a scenic tour.

I later realized that despite the CFIs being incorrect about the towered airport requirement on Cross-Country Flights, he helped me save some time... on the Commercial rating! Our training flight to prep the Long XC also satisfies 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(iii). We also did our night cross country (KLZU KAGS KLZU) to satisfy 14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)(iv).
So what you have learned:
Flight instructors often don’t know what they’re talking about.
Many people are actually not offended if you question them to clarify.
Sometimes weird requirements do have additional benefits that no one knows about, but were probably implemented originally for that reason.
:D
 
Can you guys tell me if the 2 hour day and 2 hour night x/country with an instructor or solo?
 
Can you guys tell me if the 2 hour day and 2 hour night x/country with an instructor or solo?

I'm assuming you mean for the Commercial certificate, though this thread so far has been about Private requirements.

Note that paragraph 61.129a(3) pertains to "training". That means with an instructor:

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

...

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and


Note also that 61.129a(4), in contrast, uses the words "solo flight time".
 
I didn't think there was a pilot alive who doesn't remember his or her first solo.
So there I was… 2 touch and gos, 4 traps. USS Eisenhower, T2-C Buckeye. Initial CARQUAL.

Have zero memory of one of the landings. Couldn’t understand why they shot me back to the beach with only 3 traps… I argued, but they showed me video!

I then proceeded to Duval street and lost a coupla more! Ha!
 
I'm assuming you mean for the Commercial certificate, though this thread so far has been about Private requirements.

Note that paragraph 61.129a(3) pertains to "training". That means with an instructor:

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

...

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and


Note also that 61.129a(4), in contrast, uses the words "solo flight time".
I'm based out of Sanford Florida (KSFB). I rounded up and instructor and we flew to St. Simons Island (KSSI) landing shortly before dark. Day handled. We had dinner and then dawdled around a short bit to be 1 hour after sundown, flew home. Night x-country knocked out. Made sure to refrence the 61.127 stuff in the log book entries so there was no confusion.

250nm x-country is (and must be) solo.
 
We had dinner and then dawdled around a short bit to be 1 hour after sundown, flew home. Night x-country knocked out.
Unless you are logging for night passenger-carrying currency, it does not have to be one hour after sundown. You can log night time after the end of evening civil twilight and before the beginning of morning civil twilight.
 
I'm based out of Sanford Florida (KSFB). I rounded up and instructor and we flew to St. Simons Island (KSSI) landing shortly before dark. Day handled. We had dinner and then dawdled around a short bit to be 1 hour after sundown, flew home. Night x-country knocked out. Made sure to refrence the 61.127 stuff in the log book entries so there was no confusion.

250nm x-country is (and must be) solo.

Pretty typical and exactly how I prefer to do it as well! Makes it seem more like a real flight vs just training.
Unless you are logging for night passenger-carrying currency, it does not have to be one hour after sundown. You can log night time after the end of evening civil twilight and before the beginning of morning civil twilight.
Absolutely correct, and a nuance that many people do miss.
 
Absolutely correct, and a nuance that many people do miss.
In fact, CFIs often miss this and tell their students they have to wait until an hour after sundown for night training, when the flight is for training, not for night currency. Since they have to get ten night takeoffs and landings, they invariably do get current for carrying passengers at night.
 
In fact, CFIs often miss this and tell their students they have to wait until an hour after sundown for night training, when the flight is for training, not for night currency. Since they have to get ten night takeoffs and landings, they invariably do get current for carrying passengers at night.
Or they tell their students they have to wait until an hour after sundown to get the full effect of flying at night.
 
Or they tell their students they have to wait until an hour after sundown to get the full effect of flying at night.

I do have to agree with this as well.

Yes, the rule is often misunderstood to be that ALL the flying has to happen 1 hour after sunset, when that is not accurate. However, it is also true that "end of civil twilight" may technically be "night", but it isn't really THAT dark yet. An hour after sunset, however, is generally nice and dark for practicing those nighttime illusions and such.
 
I don't know if it's good or bad, but my PPL flying that just started at the 141 school (finally got a CFI) has to be at night on the weekends given my schedule. It will be interesting when getting to chart a course with visual refs.:oops:

One question I have is do most Cessna 172s have no instrument lighting at night? It's been flashlight-fumbling for me to read instruments and a bit disconcerting. I've only been in a couple 172s many years before my training and those IPs lit up like a Broadway show (steam guages) compared to my school's planes.:dunno:
 
I don't know if it's good or bad, but my PPL flying that just started at the 141 school (finally got a CFI) has to be at night on the weekends given my schedule. It will be interesting when getting to chart a course with visual refs.:oops:

One question I have is do most Cessna 172s have no instrument lighting at night? It's been flashlight-fumbling for me to read instruments and a bit disconcerting. I've only been in a couple 172s many years before my training and those IPs lit up like a Broadway show (steam guages) compared to my school's planes.:dunno:
One of the fun things about flying is trying to figure out panel lighting. There are all sorts of different methods and I'm not sure what you have.

As far as visual references at night - airport beacons can be seen from a long distance. Once in a while I would fixate on a beacon, only to discover it was a different airport off in the distance and not the one I was trying to find. It's a challenge, but it's a fun challenge. Use your time/distance calculations along with a heading, and you'll get pretty close. You'll get some experience with picking out landmarks at night prior to your XC.
 
One question I have is do most Cessna 172s have no instrument lighting at night? It's been flashlight-fumbling for me to read instruments and a bit disconcerting. I've only been in a couple 172s many years before my training and those IPs lit up like a Broadway show (steam guages) compared to my school's planes.:dunno:
There are many different lighting setups in 172s. I always remember the first time I had a night return on a cross country from Superior, Wisconsin to Eau Claire, and discovered the only instrument lighting was an overhead flood light. I sure did not like that, especially since Superior is remote and there were very few ground lights to help. Fortunately, it was clear, and I could see the lights from the Twin Cities many miles to the southwest.

The 172s I fly now have good instrument lighting, but our 150 has only some instruments with ring lighting and others quite hard to see at night.
 
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