Do you have to do a "manual" Navigation Log for the PPL Practical Test?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
Hey guys,

Doing these Navigation Logs by hand drives me fricken nuts. They take me quite a while to do so I usually have to do it the night before - this requires me to rely on winds aloft that are most likely going to change quite a bit by the next day. It seems really silly to do these by hand when resources like SkyVector and 1800WXBRIEF can provide Navigation logs that are more reliable (since I can literally print off the NAV log before I fly).

So...do examiners require you to bring a hand written Nav log?

I noticed in the King Schools Practical Test videos they use an old DUATS NAV Log and don't do all that by hand.
 
yes. do it, learn it. then when u get ppl'd you can follow the magenta line. until then, paper and pencil.
 
Mine did. The best way to answer your question is to call up the DPE and see what he wants.
 
I did mine by hand and have had every student do his by hand too, never asked a DPE, I'd probably do it my hand if I were you
 
I've always required my students and 141 examinees to provide a NAVLOG done by hand.
 
Do you guys know of a good guide for doing it by hand? Not that I can't do it but it would help to have a standardized list of steps to speed it up
 
This is one of the areas where you should just sit down with your instructor and bang a few nav logs out.
 
Yea I went through a portion of one with my instructor but it takes a lot of time...some people are a lot more detailed than others...I know some people record both TAS and IAS and then interpolate winds aloft, etc and then others are more bare bones and keep it simple
 
Just IAS and ground speed, learn the basic math behind it and just use your whiz wheel for the winds.

Make recalculation much easer when your comparing your actual time to a waypoint with your projected time, helps calculate a new ETA and fuel burn to destination.
 
I have been using my E6B instead of the flight computer...it just can get a bit confusing figuring out top of climb and top of descent etc
 
I'm just trying to find a step by step guide on hey this is how you fill out a navigation log. I do see one YouTube video but not sure how it is.
 
Ask your CFI. He or she probably knows the DPE they're going to recommend for you to go to. And, will most likely know what that DPE expects.

As others have said though, its a great skill to develop. Just like decoding METARs and TAFs. After all years from now, you'll be able to brag to all the new guys how you used to have to do it.
 
You don't need an E-6B. Calculator, or even mental math in many cases is fine. Top of climb can be found in the performance charts for your aircraft, and descent is just a matter of geometry at a given ground speed and a given cruise altitude. Not trying to trivialize the process, but all the information you need should be readily available. Keep in mind it is all kind of a schwag……measure with a micrometer, cut with an axe sort of deal. In reality, winds won't be exactly as planned (like you mentioned), and your route or cruise altitude also might not be exactly as planned. All those things will change your actual fuel burn and timing, so the goal isn't to get it down to an exact science. You just need a solid 90-95% solution that shows an examiner that you know how to properly determine if you have the gas to get from point A to point B on paper. That is the science of basic navigation. The art is when you are in the aircraft, and the plan changes significantly. That is what your flight examination is for…….ie to determine if your headwork and aviating sense is solid enough to safely adapt to those sorts of things real time.
 
CC268 said:
Do you guys know of a good guide for doing it by hand? Not that I can't do it but it would help to have a standardized list of steps to speed it up
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Your instructor should show you how to do this when you prepare for your cross-country flights.
 
Another looking to do the minimum, child of the magenta pilot. Sigh.
 
There is an easy way to find course and heading in firefight then compute the rest from there. Put your trip into foreflight with a date way in the future where it doesn't have predicted winds. Grab the figures and go from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mulligan said:
There is an easy way to find course and heading in firefight then compute the rest from there. Put your trip into foreflight with a date way in the future where it doesn't have predicted winds. Grab the figures and go from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Why not just pay your CFI to do your checkrides nav log for you?

Just do it by hand, being able to demonstrate this skill is kinda the whole point of the operation.

If you want to use foreflight, fltplan or whatever AFTER you EARN your ticket that's fine.
 
James331 said:
Why not just pay your CFI to do your checkrides nav log for you?

Just do it by hand, being able to demonstrate this skill is kinda the whole point of the operation.

If you want to use foreflight, fltplan or whatever AFTER you EARN your ticket that's fine.
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There is nothing wrong with using tools available to help you. Thanks for the idea of paying my CFI to do it for me. I'll give that a try
 
You know, it's not that difficult to do this. When I was a student I enjoyed it. CC268, pardon me, but with all your posts on here asking questions, you appear to want it spoon fed to you. Man there are a ton of books (but you have to read them eh) about this, and the FAA books are free online! Oh and asking your CFI to do your log, good luck with that. He should train you on it but at some point ya gotta pull them britches up and do it yourself.
 
If you don't understand what those tools are doing there is a problem.

Just like never teaching your kid any math because he'll probably always have a calculator on the phone which lives on his hip.


mscard88 said:
..Oh and asking your CFI to do your log, good luck with that. ...
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I was joking on that, well unless the price is right ;)
 
[QUOTE="James331, post: 2062832,

I was joking on that, well unless the price is right ;)[/QUOTE]

Why not just pay the DPE. Maybe cost a little more but should get you through
 
mscard88 said:
You know, it's not that difficult to do this. When I was a student I enjoyed it. CC268, pardon me, but with all your posts on here asking questions, you appear to want it spoon fed to you. Man there are a ton of books (but you have to read them eh) about this, and the FAA books are free online! Oh and asking your CFI to do your log, good luck with that. He should train you on it but at some point ya gotta pull them britches up and do it yourself.
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Lol really? I want it spoon fed? I've done them by hand so far and the first two times I did it on my own because my first instructor didn't give me much to work with. I never said I wanted my instructor to do the nag log for me so not sure where you pulled that one. I've read a lot...including the PHAK, AFH, Risk Management, a lot of the AIM, etc...can I retain all that in 4 months? Hell no but at least I've exposed myself to it. I'm not a full time student but I forgot that everyone on here is a super pilot. My bad...although the site has been quite helpful I think I'm done venturing over here as this appears to be the trend anytime someone asks a question.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I went through a portion of one with my instructor but it takes a lot of time...some people are a lot more detailed than others...I know some people record both TAS and IAS and then interpolate winds aloft, etc and then others are more bare bones and keep it simple
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You need to know the concepts behind flight planning but some people go way overboard on the accuracy. Remember your inputs are not accurate. It's a winds aloft FORECAST. Can you fly the airplane within a few knots of your predicted speed? Does the airplane really meet the book numbers for fuel burn? Etc.
 
CC268 you'll be back. Look at what you wrote in your OP. And then think about the responses you're getting and why. It's like you want people to feel sorry for you, like the rest of us 'super pilots' never struggled. Let me tell you, I struggled and worked my butt off to get my certificates and ratings, as I'm sure the majority here has. If you can't I can be of no assistance. It's not that hard, period.
 
mscard88 said:
CC268 you'll be back. Look at what you wrote in your OP. And then think about the responses you're getting and why. It's like you want people to feel sorry for you, like the rest of us 'super pilots' never struggled. Let me tell you, I struggled and worked my butt off to get my certificates and ratings, as I'm sure the majority here has. If you can't I can be of no assistance. It's not that hard, period.
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The thing is that people try the tough love approach on posters who have no idea who the person dispensing it is. It has mostly resulted in new posters leaving. And in many cases it's not even tough love. It's just tough...
 
No it's the truth. I wrote nothing 'tough love'. Maybe a look at that 'Motivational talk' thread, about an SR71 pilot, will explain it.
 
mscard88 said:
No it's the truth. I wrote nothing 'tough love'. Maybe a look at that 'Motivational talk' thread, about an SR71 pilot, will explain it.
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"The truth" can be delivered in different ways. This is not in any way directed at you, but I have seen this over and over when new posters have a question or a problem. The supposed "old salts" jump on them. Remember that you don't have a captive audience here. This is neither the military nor a job. People come here voluntarily.
 
Everskyward said:
"The truth" can be delivered in different ways. This is not in any way directed at you, but I have seen this over and over when new posters have a question or a problem. The supposed "old salts" jump on them. Remember that you don't have a captive audience here. This is neither the military nor a job. People come here voluntarily.
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This.
 
I didn't read anything that made me think he wanted anything spoon fed.

He just asked a simple question.
 
When I started posting it was questions like this. Took my beating. Moved on. Still learn and even enjoy some of the occasional beatings I get.
 
The poster just wanted validation. OP, yes, dead reckoning calculation is stupid drudgery. Yes, it's a hassle you have to demonstrate on the ground portion of the PPL checkride. No, you won't use it in real life flying, especially at the professional level since the winds are almost always inaccurate and outdated, and it's too time-consuming to be done in an environment of quick turns and last minute destination changes.

That said, it's a one time hoop to jump in order to get to do what you want to do, just like going to college to end up not using the degree was for me. It sucks at the time, but then you forget about it and move on with your life. Don't miss the forest for the trees guy, keep the goal in mind. Good luck on your checkride!
 
Why wouldn't someone want to learn how to do this by hand? It isn't rocket science, and it may save you from running out of fuel some day.

My DPE gave me the route in advance: Home airport (KOJC) - TUL (Tulsa) - SUS (Spirit, St Louis) - OJC.

He's seen enough nav planning of that route to know it inside and out and can easily tell if you did it right. Then we took off flying, headed to Tulsa, diverted because of "unforcasted thunderstorms" on our route and the check ride was on!
 
The Airman Certification Standards, which replace the PTS in June, say this under Navigation:

"The applicant demonstrates the ability to prepare a document or electronic equivalent to be used in flight for comparisons with planned fuel usages and times over waypoints while dead reckoning."

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
The Airman Certification Standards, which replace the PTS in June, say this under Navigation:

"The applicant demonstrates the ability to prepare a document or electronic equivalent to be used in flight for comparisons with planned fuel usages and times over waypoints while dead reckoning."
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Further dumbing down of america.

I guess next we'll just let the auto pilot take the checkride.
 
Let's skip the preflight inspection too because it takes too long.

Seriously though, like a preflight inspection, calculating GS, WCA, and ETE using a whizwheel doesn't really take that long. As far as how to do it, most have instructions printed directly on them.
 
timwinters said:
Further dumbing down of america.

I guess next we'll just let the auto pilot take the checkride.
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Knowing how to plan for yourself is what makes you able to quickly determine if the automation is giving you crap. Fundamentals first.
 
whattauser said:
Knowing how to plan for yourself is what makes you able to quickly determine if the automation is giving you crap. Fundamentals first.
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Good point. I recently had a student come to me with a nav log for a VFR cross country off Skyvector that was in error by almost 45 degrees.
 
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