Do I let this go or do something?

Chrisgoesflying

Chrisgoesflying

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Chrisgoesflying
My wife went to a dentist for a check-up and cleaning. New dentist since we moved. She never had issues with her teeth and practices very good oral hygiene. At the dentist, they did the exam and X-ray and told her that she needs all wisdom teeth removed, a deep cleaning, that she has advanced gum disease and three cavities that need to be filled. They quickly put together a treatment plan for several thousand dollars, wanted her to sign it right then and there and get started with filling the cavities that same day. Luckily she called me first. I told her that they're scamming her. She left and told them that she'll think about it. Once home, she requested her X-rays to be sent to her by email and anything else they had on file under HIPAA. No response. Two follow ups by email - still no response.

She then went to another dentist for another check-up and cleaning (since the initial dentist refused to do a regular cleaning, only an $800 deep cleaning which she refused). They did an exam, x-rays and a regular cleaning. The result: No cavities in any of her teeth. No gum disease. Wisdom teeth are perfectly fine to remain. They thanked her and said "see you in six months for your next cleaning and check-up.

I'm obviously fuming. That first dentist is clearly a scam artist. Do I report that idiot to the state board? Online, the scam dentist doesn't have a lot of reviews but the few he has are mixed. The bad ones all have a similar pattern to what I described above. The good ones tend to just praise him without giving any specifics so I assume a good number of those are "friends and family" reviews.

WWYD?
 
When I got back from my 3rd tour in ‘19, I had to find another civilian dentist. I ran into one of those types. I made the appointment for a cleaning (or so I thought), they looked around, gave me a quote, and asked which teeth I wanted cleaned. WTF? All of them…

Needless to say I did not do business with that dentist. It seems to be a new(er) business model / approach to dentistry, that I most certainly don’t subscribe to.
 
I would write a letter of complaint to the state licensing board that supervises dentists. If you can email that's ok but I would send a hard copy via registered mail. That way a real person has to sign for it. It might not go anywhere but the way your wife was treated is unacceptable, and should be brought under scrutiny.
 

Complaint & Investigations Process – Texas State Board of Dental Examiners

tsbde.texas.gov tsbde.texas.gov

I assume you're still in TX, from the lone star reference in your profile. I would absolutely file a complaint and follow up every step to be sure something is done.

I had a complaint against a pharmacist. There were no real consequences, but I do know they had to explain their actions to their licensing board. Maybe something like that will be enough to get this scumbag dentist to stop doing that to people.

I'm petty, and have time and resources to make that dentist regret trying that. I'm not above getting signs made, starting a real grassroots movement to run that scumbag out of town.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
My wife went to a dentist for a check-up and cleaning. New dentist since we moved. She never had issues with her teeth and practices very good oral hygiene. At the dentist, they did the exam and X-ray and told her that she needs all wisdom teeth removed, a deep cleaning, that she has advanced gum disease and three cavities that need to be filled. They quickly put together a treatment plan for several thousand dollars, wanted her to sign it right then and there and get started with filling the cavities that same day. Luckily she called me first. I told her that they're scamming her. She left and told them that she'll think about it. Once home, she requested her X-rays to be sent to her by email and anything else they had on file under HIPAA. No response. Two follow ups by email - still no response.

She then went to another dentist for another check-up and cleaning (since the initial dentist refused to do a regular cleaning, only an $800 deep cleaning which she refused). They did an exam, x-rays and a regular cleaning. The result: No cavities in any of her teeth. No gum disease. Wisdom teeth are perfectly fine to remain. They thanked her and said "see you in six months for your next cleaning and check-up.

I'm obviously fuming. That first dentist is clearly a scam artist. Do I report that idiot to the state board? Online, the scam dentist doesn't have a lot of reviews but the few he has are mixed. The bad ones all have a similar pattern to what I described above. The good ones tend to just praise him without giving any specifics so I assume a good number of those are "friends and family" reviews.

WWYD?
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I would start with going to the office in person and demanding the X-rays and records. Then take it from there.

Texas State Board of Dental Examiners

tsbde.texas.gov tsbde.texas.gov
 
Fiveslide said:

Complaint & Investigations Process – Texas State Board of Dental Examiners

tsbde.texas.gov tsbde.texas.gov

I assume you're still in TX, from the lone star reference in your profile. I would absolutely file a complaint and follow up every step to be sure something is done.

I had a complaint against a pharmacist. There were no real consequences, but I do know they had to explain their actions to their licensing board. Maybe something like that will be enough to get this scumbag dentist to stop doing that to people.

I'm petty, and have time and resources to make that dentist regret trying that. I'm not above getting signs made, starting a real grassroots movement to run that scumbag out of town.
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I do not see that as petty.
 
A good friend of mine is an oral and maxilofacial surgeon. MD first, the dental school.

He wrote this up in response to an article on some the these type dental practices that were exposed in 2019.

Bottom line: dentistry doesn't have the same amount of science to guide treatment like medicine does. So, you have to rely on the integrity of the dentist to guide you.

Not that medicine is perfect. Sometimes the "science" is muddled or your specific condition doesn't exactly align with studies.

 
TCABM said:
A good friend of mine is an oral and maxilofacial surgeon. MD first, the dental school.
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I am as well. The state board will specify the maximum time allowed to provide a copy of a patient’s medical records to the entitled party. In Louisiana, IIRC, it is 72hrs. If they don’t comply in the proper time frame, I suggest a call to the office restating your request. Don’t threaten, just restate your request. If do not receive the records, the contact the state board and they will instruct you on the process of filing a formal complaint. The board WILL follow up on the complaint, for certain. The dentist will be required to provide a response to the inquiry. If the board has received a number of similar complaints they will likely proceed with a ‘boots on the ground’ investigation.
 
Retired DDS here. This scenario is one of the things that really concerns me about dentistry today. Unfortunately the profession, for some, has pivoted from being a practice, where care is directed at the patient’s needs, to a business, that is focused on profit. Corporate dentistry is partly to blame as is the extremely high cost of dental education necessitating a high level of production to reduce debt. As a patient, referral from other patients is your best bet to finding a DDS that keeps their patients’ legitimate needs at the forefront

I doubt pursuing action on DDS #1 will amount to anything to be honest. No harm has been done, except to this dentist’s reputation. I practiced in a small area, and reputation spreads quickly. Thus type of ‘treatment” planning will hopefully catch up with this DDS.
 
kep5niner said:
I made the appointment for a cleaning (or so I thought), they looked around, gave me a quote, and asked which teeth I wanted cleaned. WTF? All of them…
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Doesn't the FSDO have to sign-off on phased cleanings?
 
painless said:
Retired DDS here. This scenario is one of the things that really concerns me about dentistry today. Unfortunately the profession, for some, has pivoted from being a practice, where care is directed at the patient’s needs, to a business, that is focused on profit. Corporate dentistry is partly to blame as is the extremely high cost of dental education necessitating a high level of production to reduce debt. As a patient, referral from other patients is your best bet to finding a DDS that keeps their patients’ legitimate needs at the forefront

I doubt pursuing action on DDS #1 will amount to anything to be honest. No harm has been done, except to this dentist’s reputation. I practiced in a small area, and reputation spreads quickly. Thus type of ‘treatment” planning will hopefully catch up with this DDS.
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Are you this Painless
 
painless said:
Retired DDS here. This scenario is one of the things that really concerns me about dentistry today. Unfortunately the profession, for some, has pivoted from being a practice, where care is directed at the patient’s needs, to a business, that is focused on profit. Corporate dentistry is partly to blame as is the extremely high cost of dental education necessitating a high level of production to reduce debt. As a patient, referral from other patients is your best bet to finding a DDS that keeps their patients’ legitimate needs at the forefront

I doubt pursuing action on DDS #1 will amount to anything to be honest. No harm has been done, except to this dentist’s reputation. I practiced in a small area, and reputation spreads quickly. Thus type of ‘treatment” planning will hopefully catch up with this DDS.
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Try this one…
 
Corporate dentistry is like corporate veterinarians and corporate funeral homes. The end goal is maximizing profit and they use pretty much the same techniques.

Going into any of the above is much like going to a car dealership. Hidden cost, bait and switch, deception. They all use the "treatment plan" approach which is to present a huge estimate of services using terms unfamiliar to most people and then go for the hard sell to get a signature and a credit card authorization. Once you are in the loop then more treatment plans are put forth, more hard sell. The end goal is to extract as much cash as possible.
 
painless said:
Retired DDS here. This scenario is one of the things that really concerns me about dentistry today. Unfortunately the profession, for some, has pivoted from being a practice, where care is directed at the patient’s needs, to a business, that is focused on profit. Corporate dentistry is partly to blame as is the extremely high cost of dental education necessitating a high level of production to reduce debt. As a patient, referral from other patients is your best bet to finding a DDS that keeps their patients’ legitimate needs at the forefront

I doubt pursuing action on DDS #1 will amount to anything to be honest. No harm has been done, except to this dentist’s reputation. I practiced in a small area, and reputation spreads quickly. Thus type of ‘treatment” planning will hopefully catch up with this DDS.
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Nothing wrong with being profict-driven, but achieving that profit by scamming is the main issue here. Instead, they should be focusing on achieving profit through excellence in care.
 
First dentist is probably owned by private equity.

My daughter-in-law is a veterinarian specialized in canine dentistry.

Her firm is owned by PI. She is constantly under pressure to maximize income and profit.

She’s at the point where she’s definitely ready to quit and she’s only in her 40s.
 
My dentist is pretty honest (and an ex Air Force dentist to boot) but the profit element is there. Like, "Does that front tooth crown bother you? The color is off. We can fix it if you want." No, if it ain't broke don't fix it but we're not talking pressure sales either. They try to sell me on three month cleaning schedules (insurance covers six months). Is it beneficial? For me, yes, my teeth tarter more easily than the next person. Probably not enough to be worth the cost (not that much) and the hassle though.
 
RalphInCA said:
First dentist is probably owned by private equity.

My daughter-in-law is a veterinarian specialized in canine dentistry.

Her firm is owned by PI. She is constantly under pressure to maximize income and profit.

She’s at the point where she’s definitely ready to quit and she’s only in her 40s.
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My daughter is also a veterinarian, non specialized, and has experienced the same sort of pressures and sentiments. Sad to say.
 
Yeah, we've struggled to find good dentists when we've moved. The others that have mentioned private equity I think nailed the issue. We try to find local, non-corporate-y dentists.

My wife had issues with a dentist doing shoddy work and overbilling insurance until we asked around for word-of-mouth (pun?) references. I've had great teeth since forever, but dentists still try to upsell me on elective procedures like whitening and invis-align. I've also had one dentist mention "oh, look, your wisdom teeth healed up nicely." "Yeah, I'd hope so since it's been 20 years since I had them taken out." He was looking at entirely the wrong chart. ‍♂️ :D

I'd just report this guy/gal to the state board and move on.
 
Thank y'all for your input!

kyleb said:
Google reviews are a surprisingly effective tool.
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I already left one of those as have others. He has positive reviews as well though. I don't know how. Maybe he picks and chooses who he wants to scam? Matter of the fact is, cavities don't magically disappear. From my understanding, once a cavities has developed, there is no return. You can slow it down, but you can't reverse it, especially not if it's at a point where it needs a filling. He identified 3 teeth that needed a filling. The next dentist said she doesn't have a single cavity. I guess gum disease and especially wisdom tooth extraction, opinions can differ between dentists - but cavities - that should be black and white. You have one or you don't.

Dana said:
What did dentist #2 say about dentist #1's recommendations?
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My wife didn't tell dentist #2 about dentist #1. She didn't want them to have any bias going into the appointment.
 
I went to the same dentist for the first 25 years of my life. 0 cavities and every visit was routine. He told me I have a stain which some future dentist will say is a cavity. I moved to Atlanta and went to a new dentist similar to dentist #1. Of course, he "found" that cavity. Every visit was a new sales job. My favorite was his using a camera to blow up gigantic blemishes suggesting whitening etc. This was mid 90s which is before PE in Dentistry (I believe). Like @eman1200 / @Sac Arrow , he got me on cleanings every 3 months because of "unusual" tartar build up. My FIL, a periodontist, warned me there are dentists like this. He suggested me telling him I'm only interested in no-frills service. This worked. I moved to Charlotte and no issues in 25 years. Strangely enough, 2 cleanings/year works just fine.
 
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The first one sounds like a chain dentist. Kind of terrifying, but not surprising to me. McDentist.

I have no medical training, but in the 90's used to do small business consulting and for whatever reason we were popular with dentists. I probably did the networking and computer setup for two dozen local practices. We didn't have any chains, but there were clear differences between them in terms of how they operated. All seemed decent, but one group, guy that put himself through dental school in NYC driving a cab, stood out from the rest. Professional, friendly, kind, all that stuff. Had awards and ongoing training certs lining the walls of his personal office, but none of the patients ever say those. Very down to earth guy. I'm still going there, his son now is running the business with a partner.

In short, shop around and find a good one. What everyone has said above about the differences in approach and skill being difficult to judge rings true to me.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
That first dentist is clearly a scam artist. Do I report that idiot to the state board?
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This guy to b reported to anyone and everyone from the milk man to the State Board of Dental Examiners. This guy is no different than the crooks that scam little old ladies out of their retirement income.
 
We are lucky to have a dentist whom we both like and trust. Since we moved, we drive 120 miles (r/t) to see him. We've known him for 46 years and will never change unless he retires or dies. He's told me he has known us longer than some of his family.
 
Beachy said:
We are lucky to have a dentist whom we both like and trust. Since we moved, we drive 120 miles (r/t) to see him. We've known him for 46 years and will never change unless he retires or dies. He's told me he has known us longer than some of his family.
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This seems to be an accelerating trend. I have had more doctors retire in the past two years than I can remember in my life. Many of them are selling out to a corporation just to get out from under burdensome regulations, pricing pressures and complaints about rich doctors. And many of them are well below standard retirement age.
 
Unless you have written proof, like a summary stating the fraudulent diagnosis, the treatment plan and cost estimate, along with the summary from the 2nd dentist, I'd keep my mouth shut (pun not intended). It's not worth getting drug into a situation in which you can't show proof of probable wrong doing. And, even then you never know what someone that would do that is capable of doing in retaliation.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Matter of the fact is, cavities don't magically disappear. From my understanding, once a cavities has developed, there is no return. You can slow it down, but you can't reverse it, especially not if it's at a point where it needs a filling.
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I got my first, and only, cavity sometime very early in my 30s. They kept telling me about it, every cleaning, but it never hurt. I just kept lying to them, saying I would get it fixed soon, when I had time. I finally got it fixed when I was a 43. Not because it hurt, or got substantially larger over all those years. Heck, you couldn't see the darn cavity unless you had one of those little mirrors and stuck it in my mouth, after telling me to say "ahhhhhh".

I got it fixed because something hit my face right in its mouth and broke the tooth next to it.
 
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