When given an IFR climb to higher altitudes and experiencing a very poor climb rate / difficulties, is it acceptable to level off for 3 minutes, gain some speed, and then resume the climb? I have found that on a continuous climb, my single engine piston struggles above 10k on a continuous climb. But if I level off for 3 minutes, get the speed back up to 120, and then resume the climb it's very easy to gain another 1k or more. These "steps" seem very effective, but I was wondering if ATC needs to be notified at each step. Using "unable" seems a bit drastic, since I am "able", but with a short step....
Difficult climb
- Thread starter JeffB
- Start date
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes. They do. Ya may find another plane climbing through you if you don't.
Last edited:
FastEddieB
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2013
- Messages
- 11,421
- Location
- Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
- Display Name
Display name:
Fast Eddie B
Pretty sure ATC expects climb at the best practical rate for the aircraft, and need to be notified any time that falls below 500fpm.
Further, I think your “step climb” loses out to a continuous climb aerodynamically. The only reason to do so might be for cooling.
Further, I think your “step climb” loses out to a continuous climb aerodynamically. The only reason to do so might be for cooling.
King IFR regs refresher is great for this sort of thing. I believe they expect 100 feet per nautical mile above 10k, and you can't "take a break" as it were. You're also supposed to notify ATC if you can't climb or descend by more than 500 feet per minute.
Grum.Man
En-Route
Why not just maintain 120 the whole time instead of stopping to build speed and start again?
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
If you do an intermediate level off, ATC needs to be notified. There may be traffic issues precluding it. They will likely notice it and query you if don't, especially with a level off that long. Plus, technically, your unannounced level off is as much a violation of 91.123 as would be a change of direction (the AIM guidance to report when unable to maintain 500 fpm or better was already mentioned).
Each step? Maybe. Maybe not. That's up to ATC. Before the first step, I'd let ATC know I would like to periodically level off for 3 minutes at a time about every XXXX feet after YYYYY for engine management. They might say, "sure, go ahead" or "advise up at each level off," or even that they can't do it on your present heading and (you or they can) offer alternatives.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I might request lower altitudes. If I found climbs to difficult altitudes to be necessary I think I'd find a more capable aircraft.
aterpster
En-Route
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,317
- Display Name
Display name:
aterpster
That 100/nm is to determine whether an airway needs an MCA when entering an segment with a higher MEA. It has nothing to do with ATC.
Attachments
Brad Z
Final Approach
I would simply let ATC know to expect a slow climb. Or install a turbocharger.
Thanks for that info, appreciate it!
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
Unless you are climbing at a speed slower than best climb speed (if this is true, then you have bigger issues), that is not logical nor would it follow the laws of physics. If you're speeding up faster than the best climb speed in the "step", then, by definition, you're climbing slower, even if it "feels" like you're climbing faster.
aterpster
En-Route
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,317
- Display Name
Display name:
aterpster
Where did you get that idea?
Plano Pilot
Line Up and Wait
Correct
aterpster
En-Route
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,317
- Display Name
Display name:
aterpster
There is no such thing as a radar vector climb corridor as such. There are DVAs at some airports but those are from liftoff and can require a climb gradient greater than 200 feet per mile.
pigpenracing
En-Route
Put a Nitrous kit on it.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm not sure if that helps or not. If you are needed up there, you are needed up there. If the MEA is 10,000, I doubt you'll get a bloc altitudevwith a low point of 8,000. And if 8,000 was fine, why not ask for it in the first place instead of straining to get to 12,000?
Clark1961
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,737
- Display Name
Display name:
Display name:
Well if going to ‘eleven’ is good, twelve has got to be better. Right?
Ask for a shuttle climb?
Clark1961
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,737
- Display Name
Display name:
Display name:
The shuttle has been retired.
Sluggo63
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,897
- Display Name
Display name:
Sluggo63
I don't know if he was needed up there or not, the OP never said. And he never said anything about needing to meet an MEA or anything like that.
I figured he just filed above 10k for the heck of it (why, I don't know). If he could make it to 10k but wanted to level off then climb a bit every few minutes, a block altitude would help. That way he could do whatever he wanted on the way up there.
I Just wanted to say thanks for all the replies. I am aware of the rules and regs and will keep ATC in the loop. But it is interesting that if I climb at Vy (80kts for me) the rate is almost unbearable above 9000. But a brief level off to get up to 120, followed by a standard climbing pitch and I'm at 10-11k very quickly. And yes, whoever suggested a new plane as a solution, that has crossed my mind recently. For the comment on MEA and asking for a lower altitude, I did file for 9k, but was vectored around and then given a new route which put the MEA at 11k. In retrospect, that would have been the best time to let ATC know I needed a different route but usually climbing to 11-12k is doable. Thanks again guys.