Differential braking

RalphInCA

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RalphInCA
The DA40 I had my first flight in today does not have nose wheel steering. You use the brakes to steer.

I had a tough time getting used to this system

Especially on take off. My first take off was not pretty

Had a tough time transitioning between using the brakes to steer to using the rudder.

Any tips?
 
Don't use the brakes after 200' on take off. ;)

Use the ailerons to steer on the ground also. They are amazing effective.
 
The DA40 I had my first flight in today does not have nose wheel steering. You use the brakes to steer.

I had a tough time getting used to this system

Especially on take off. My first take off was not pretty

Had a tough time transitioning between using the brakes to steer to using the rudder.

Any tips?

It takes some time getting used to, practice a few takeoffs, you'll be fine.
Alight yourself with the runway, and don't touch the brakes, with some airspeed you'll gain rudder authority, use that.
 
Ailerons? You mean rudder?

Nope, ailerons. I did some testing flying of the RV-12. The test was to land without any rudder use or brakes. The ailerons can be used to help steer for a while, at higher speeds. It does help.
 
Nope, ailerons. I did some testing flying of the RV-12. The test was land without any rudder use or brakes. The ailerons can be used to help steer for a while.

At higher speed and if you don't have any other choice, perhaps. But in his case there is no reason not to use the rudder. That's what I did when I flew the 20 and the 40, worked out just fine.
 
At higher speed and if you don't have any other choice, perhaps. But in his case there is no reason not to use the rudder. That's what I did when I flew the 20 and the 40, worked out just fine.


Yep, the first choice is stay off the brakes. :yes:
 
In my -10, I line up perfectly with brakes. Slowly apply full power over 5 seconds and use our big rudder for any corrections. I get pretty good authority over 20 kts. May not apply to your aircraft though.
 
You can steer while taxiing pretty well with the rudder. Try it and see. You may need to use the brakes occasionally when taxiing. For takeoff, don't use the brakes at all, just the rudder.
 
Yep, the first choice is stay off the brakes. :yes:

I haven't touched my brakes since I got the bill for the annual, with the exception of adding them for the run-up (my parking brake locks the foot brakes which must be depressed first) and 1 time when the tower told mt to expedite my turn off the runway.

Amazing how much you can slow down doing S-turns on the ground.


The down side of that is I taxi slower than anyone on the field.
 
Keep off the brakes once the airspeed comes alive. Let the rudder do the work.
 
When taxiing on the ground, how do you position your feet? Do you actually take your heels off the floor and press on the tops of the rudder pedals? And then for takeoff, do you transition your heels down to the floor? So that you are no longer pressing the brakes?
 
When taxiing on the ground, how do you position your feet? Do you actually take your heels off the floor and press on the tops of the rudder pedals? And then for takeoff, do you transition your heels down to the floor? So that you are no longer pressing the brakes?

For both taxing and takeoff keep your heels on the floor & toes on the rudders. When you neep brakes, slide your feet up. Practice that a few times while the plane isn't moving so you're comfortable with the motion and can easily apply brakes when need be.
 
:rofl: I suspect that's for a very different reason.

It was the bulk of the bill. needed new pads and had to get new rotors.
A&P gave us a lot of info about how to use / avoid using brakes.
 
It was the bulk of the bill. needed new pads and had to get new rotors.
A&P gave us a lot of info about how to use / avoid using brakes.

That does indeed get expensive.

What aircraft was this on?
 
Socata TB9
Bill for the annual was 3100

I get to split that with my dad so no complaining here but I thought the annual would be about a grand.
 
Socata TB9
Bill for the annual was 3100

I get to split that with my dad so no complaining here but I thought the annual would be about a grand.

I'm not too familiar with your brakes. Are they on the smaller side by any chance? Any overheating issues?
I know Cirrus' have that problem, relatively large aircraft with miniature brakes.

Just curious.
 
not sure about the brakes but we have small tires. It is comical how little they are.

This is not mine but same type
socata-tb9-tampico-d-erni-herzogenaurach-5498.jpg
 
When taxiing on the ground, how do you position your feet? Do you actually take your heels off the floor and press on the tops of the rudder pedals? And then for takeoff, do you transition your heels down to the floor? So that you are no longer pressing the brakes?

My training was in a DA20 which is the little brother to your 40.

Steering an airplane with any system (conventional, castoring, or linked) is something nobody gets correct on the first flight. But is a skill that quickly improves so by the 4th or 5th flight, it's no longer an issue.

For your Diamond, taxi slowly for now. I kept my heels on the floor, and just flexed my ankle to press on the brake. On big sweeping turns, my practice was to depress the rudder pedal in direction of turn and let the prop wash and rudder turn me. Then I would add brake if the turn needed to be tighter. To stop the taxi turn, a little opposite rudder would straighten me out.

For take off, once on the runway, I would have my heels on the floor and no longer flex my ankle. Any rudder force would come from my thigh muscles.

And here's my top tip for students getting the hang of how much rudder for take off:

When you drive a car, your right foot must press down to make your vehicle go, right? And the. Ore you press, the faster you go. Need to be slower? Don't press down as much. Going down the road (with no cruise control) you are constantly changing to amount of input (force) on the pedal to maintain your desired velocity.

Airplane is similar. When you first push in the throttle, both the aircraft and the engine are slow, so you don't need as much right rudder to counteract the left turn tendency. But as you speed up, you do need to "step on the accelerator" more as the turning tendency increases. Now you're at full throttle and "going done the road" just needing to maintain the centerline. Now is when you add or remove small amounts of force to keep going straight. Seeing a small pull to the left? Step on the pedal slightly. Seeing too much turn to the right? Let off of the pedal slightly.

No one is a take off master on their first attempts. My first few, I think I touched both edges of an 80-ft wide runway at least 3 times before we lifted off. But after that, each attempt, the s-turn rodeo got shallower and shallower until it was natural to apply just enough of the right foot and "gas pedal" to hold the centerline.


Hope this helps you!!! Keep at it and this will be old hat in no time!
 
not sure about the brakes but we have small tires. It is comical how little they are.

This is not mine but same type
socata-tb9-tampico-d-erni-herzogenaurach-5498.jpg

I see. Well look at it this way, you didn't buy an airplane to taxi, so screw it.
 
And a tip for Bryan.... Since you're now using the Academy as your FBO, A5 is the best exit off of the runway.

When landing on 18, advise tower your want to land long and adjust your touchdown point from the usual first 1000 feet zone to wherever allows you to touchdown and then finish your rollout and turn onto A5 without any pressure in your brakes.

On a good day, I can get the Skylane down and stopped before A3, but that's a long taxi to Hotel where my hangar is. DTO tower always approves a "land long" request so I can finish my rollout with just enough energy to coast the turn onto A4. From A4, it's a very short taxi to Hotel and the Hangar.

By asking to land long, you're helping them to know what you want (turn off at A5) so they can update the separation plan for aircraft behind you.
 
And a tip for Bryan.... Since you're now using the Academy as your FBO, A5 is the best exit off of the runway.

When landing on 18, advise tower your want to land long and adjust your touchdown point from the usual first 1000 feet zone to wherever allows you to touchdown and then finish your rollout and turn onto A5 without any pressure in your brakes.

On a good day, I can get the Skylane down and stopped before A3, but that's a long taxi to Hotel where my hangar is. DTO tower always approves a "land long" request so I can finish my rollout with just enough energy to coast the turn onto A4. From A4, it's a very short taxi to Hotel and the Hangar.

By asking to land long, you're helping them to know what you want (turn off at A5) so they can update the separation plan for aircraft behind you.


A5 is my preferred exit. I will make a note of communicating "landing long"

thanks
 
A5 is my preferred exit. I will make a note of communicating "landing long"

thanks

And now, if you're landing on 36, you get to practice your short field technique... Even more than at your former aerodrome.

PS... Wanna do Lunch Friday?
 
And now, if you're landing on 36, you get to practice your short field technique... Even more than at your former aerodrome.

PS... Wanna do Lunch Friday?

Sure.

I'll have the munchkins with me but I can probably get out for a bit.
 
I haven't touched my brakes since I got the bill for the annual, with the exception of adding them for the run-up (my parking brake locks the foot brakes which must be depressed first) and 1 time when the tower told mt to expedite my turn off the runway.

Amazing how much you can slow down doing S-turns on the ground.


The down side of that is I taxi slower than anyone on the field.


Brake pads cost $30. :dunno: Borrow a rivit press and a hand drill and you are good to go. Hour tops. ;)
 
Brake pads cost $30. :dunno: Borrow a rivit press and a hand drill and you are good to go. Hour tops. ;)

I'm guessing the Tampicos have some super spendy brake disk?

I put all new pads and disks on last year and cost was around $210 + shipping. Labor was free - Cessna 177.
 
I've been flying and giving checkouts in Grummans for a very long time, and we've learned a few things about using differential braking to control steering on the ground.

First, for taxi, it's important to try to avoid dragging a brake to go around a corner. Better to apply enough pressure to get the nose swung in the desired direction, then just hold full rudder without brake and use additional brake application only as necessary to maintain the "course". We find it usually takes less than five minutes for the average Cessna pilot to learn how to do this.

Takeoffs are a bit trickier. The biggest problem is the first 100-200 feet of roll, where even without a crosswind, you have a lot of torque/P-factor/spiraling slipstream combining to pull the nose to the left. We teach two techniques for dealing with this.

  1. Line up on the runway with the nose cocked about 5 degrees to the right of centerline. When you release brakes and apply full throttle, the nose will pull left, but between airspeed and propwash, the rudder will become sufficiently effective about the time the nose is pointed straight down the runway.
  2. Line up normally, but hold the brakes and advance power to 1800 RPM before releasing brakes. This will give you enough airflow over the rudder to make it effective right from brake release. This is the technique I normally use in my Tiger. It also allows me to check the engine instruments at half-power before brake release.
In either case (and at any time while taxiing), make sure you've straightened the nosewheel before coming to a halt. Moving from a stop with the nosewheel cocked requires extra power and makes it hard to initially go in the desired direction.

Crosswinds make this a bit more difficult, and if it's a wind from the left (adding one more left-turning tendency due to weathervaning) you may need to drag the right brake for a bit until you have enough speed to overcome that with rudder alone. OTOH, a crosswind from the right counters and may even overwhelm the normal left-turning tendencies, requiring a tad of left brake during the first few feet of takeoff roll.

BTW, I've got at least 50 hours in DA40's (including about 12 hours this past weekend), and these techniques work just fine in them. They also work nicely in the Cirrus, in which I have at least that much time, too.
 
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Brake pads cost $30. :dunno: Borrow a rivit press and a hand drill and you are good to go. Hour tops. ;)


I'm guessing the Tampicos have some super spendy brake disk?

I put all new pads and disks on last year and cost was around $210 + shipping. Labor was free - Cessna 177.

I do my own brakes also but a brake pad or rotor replacement on a certified is not an owner maintenance item is it? i.e. it requires at least a signoff from an A&P holder, correct?
 
Excellent comments guys! Now I cannot wait until my next flight (Saturday) to try out these techniques.


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Excellent comments guys! Now I cannot wait until my next flight (Saturday) to try out these techniques.


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Keep practicing and it becomes second nature. The one thing I noticed after putting in quite a bit of time in the Grumman AA5 planes with differential braking is now when I go to planes with steering nose gear and diff braking that I can maneuver in and out of tight places on the ramp a heck of a lot better than when I was only using the nose wheel for steering.
 
Excellent comments guys! Now I cannot wait until my next flight (Saturday) to try out these techniques.


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Full castoring nosewheel is easy. Remember you need to be moving even just a little before the nosewheel will turn. So, if you are stopped and want to turn, get it rolling then a tap on the brake of the desired turn direction typically will initiate a turn if either 1: you are not rolling fast enough for rudder authority or 2: with full rudder you lack the desired directional control.
For takeoff, start with the nosewheel in the appropriate direction. Bring in the power gradually. Use the rudder. If you need a direction change and are still too slow for rudder effectiveness, add a unilateral brake tap.
 
Castering, steerable tailwheel is best.

:popcorn:


Dan
 
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