different clubs calculation of flying time/rental price

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by LongRoadBob, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    My current club charges from block off/block on, I don't know if this is THE term for this, but mainly...

    Charges start from just before takeoff, until landing and departing the runway. Plus they add 10 minutes (5 for taxi after start, 5 for back to hangar).

    The fuel is paid for from the rental price.

    What is this type of scheme called?

    What other types are used in othe clubs? I'm looking into the possibility of going for, a larg club at an untowered airport to a smaller club, at a controlled, busy airport, and the club has 2 (twice as many) trainer C172's.
    Also they seem to have more chance to instruct around my schedule, and seem to have less downtime on each of their planes.

    I'm trying to think of any questions I ought to ask when checking out the new club.

    It's a little intimidating knowing the club I am considering is at a huge airport, and definitely a challenge, but honestly I have been worried a little that I would get my PPL and be wary of flying into TMA for larger airports, this would sure cure me of that...if I make it. A lot more to learn about the airport, and a lot more practice on the radio I guess.

    But mainly, the lone plane I can train on now has either been grounded, in service, or not quite right for a longer period. This summer it was unavailable for almost all of July. And there are a lot more students vying for renting it. The other club is smaller and has two trainers with steam gauges that would be usable to train in. That alone seems like a win.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  2. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hobbs Time. In this case, the aircraft has a Hobbs Meter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbs_meter) and the starting time and ending time are noted. The difference is the amount the aircraft was used and this number is multiplied by the published rental rate. Often, Hobbs Meters are tied to the master switch. So as long as the switch is energized, the meter is running.

    Tach Time. In this case, the aircraft's tachometer time is used. The starting time and ending time "tach time" are noted. The difference is the amount the aircraft was used and this number is multiplied by the published rental rate. Tach time has a small advantage over Hobbs because at low RPM's (such as ground idle), the tach time shown accumulates slower than real time.

    Wet rate includes the cost of fuel

    Dry rate does not include the cost of fuel.
     
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  3. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This topic has been discussed in various subforms quite a bit over the past 9-12 months. See if the search function helps you find some of the threads.
     
  4. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

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    A bigger factor in your decision: Do they charge by tach time or Hobbes time? -Skip
     
  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That sounds waaaay too complicated .

    I’d ether to Hobbs or tach, and keep it dry, default planes back to half tanks or whatever.
     
  6. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    I prefer if they calculate based in Calvin time :D
     
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  7. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    So this seems to be something different here. If I'm not totally off base from the description, neither fits how this club does it. We record takeoff time, and cleaning he runway time, add ten minutes, and that is the rental time for the booking. We also record the tach reading, but I'm thinking this is more for oil change maybe or something because even in the clubs example (they complain some students aren't filling in right so they have an example) for students it shows 40 minutes flying time, plus ten minutes for ground OPs, so total time for rental is 50 minutes, but tach time in the example is .6 (36 minutes).

    Seems we go by clock time plus 10. And "wet".

    No problem I can just ask how they do it at the club I am considering. I am very hopeful and jazzed about this. It has seemed like a serious problem for me to get flying time here, and other issues. It's still fun, but frustrating. I don't expect the new club to be perfect, but if I can just fly more often, and get a little more theory and all.

    I'm really going to have to work to learn the airport though, the regs, the procedures, the many different frequencies, the taxiways, etc. daunting but also as I say, I hope to fly down from Norway to European cities now and then and that means airports like this one. I am both intimidated and excited to getting used to flying into and out of larger airports.

    I'm not that far along yet.

    Sorry, I have seen thread on this, but I also was asking for any other thoughts about what I ought to check on to decide to go to the new club. I only have experience with my current club.

    Mainly I'm pretty much sure that I will be able to fly more often, and on days when I can (where I have lost several bookings because I couldn't get an instructor on a Monday, any time before sundown...ok in Norway the sun right now is down at like 3 .p.m. Or so, but still this was a month ago and then two weeks ago).

    I guess I already know, it's going to be more of a challenge with tower, and radio comes, but beside being a lot of stress at the beginning, I will come out not being shy of calling up the "pros".
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  8. dennisc172

    dennisc172 Pre-Flight

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    My club where I fly the most has a, in my eyes, good policy. They have a slightly higher rental fee for their aircraft but only calculate airtime. The thought behind this is that you should take all the time to warm up the engine and do your checks in stead of rushing it to save some $$. So that slightly higher rental fees turns out to be cheaper then the cheaper rentals that calculate engine on engine off. I also heared people saying that it could lower operating fee if everyone does their warm / run up slow and right.
     
  9. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Different places will calculate fees in different ways, In the US, it is primarily based on either a Hobbs meter or, for aircraft which don't have one, tach time. No reason there should not other ways, such as the self-timing plus premium method you mention. It's not about the "how" as much as it is about the bottom line.

    Hobbs is the brand name of an aircraft use timer which is activated by either the aircraft electrical system or an oil pressure switch. It's used because tach time is dependent on power settings, so, while it capture engine time, it's not really capturing overall aircraft use time.
     
  10. Hippike

    Hippike Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Shouldn't be afraid of radio. If the new airport is not on LiveATC, you can always listen in on Oslo tower to get a feel for the busy airspace ;)
    https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=ENGM

    By the way, do you speak English in your radio communications or Norwegian? I'm just curious because in my home country, smaller airports all speak the native language (although they all understand English due to lots of foreign students) but the main (international) airport of the capital city uses English.
     
  11. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    So does the wet rate include both the fuel and water required to clean the runway?
     
  12. LongRoadBob

    LongRoadBob Line Up and Wait

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    My experience at my current small untowered airport is that all speak English. It is allowed to speak Norwegian also, but all pilots are required to pass an English test, and I've only ever heard English. Unless of course radio calls I missed were actually not clear and Norwegian :)

    I have spent some, but not enough time on liveATC. Will do more with that. Mainly I just have to go over the different stages, who I need to talk to and when, etc. review "say again, please" and other good radio communications books.