Did they FUBAR the DC TFR or is this a new thing?

You have to take the online course to fly in the 60 mile ring. From a practical standpoint, the 60 mile ring is meaningless.
 
Hang 4 said:
You have to take the online course to fly in the 60 mile ring. From a practical standpoint, the 60 mile ring is meaningless.
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Maybe in the speed of aircraft you fly. In a fast airplane it’s less than 10 minutes to the SFRA.
 
Clip4 said:
Maybe in the speed of aircraft you fly. In a fast airplane it’s less than 10 minutes to the SFRA.
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Not sure what that has to do with anything. Any airspace is close in a fast airplane. From a regulatory standpoint, the only thing required to be in the 60 mile ring (and outside the 30) is having taken the online course.
 
Comments above are incorrect. There is a speed limit within the 60 mile ring. See notam 4/9383:
C. BETWEEN 30NM RADIUS AND 60NM RADIUS OF 385134N0770211W OR THE WASHINGTON DCAVOR/DME, AIRCRAFT MUST MAINTAIN AN AIRSPEED OF 230 KNOTS OR LESS.

Jon
 
Why the lack of consistency, though? The 60nm ring was never a TFR, then it became for a bit in 2024, disappeared again and now it popped up again.
 
AV8R_87 said:
What's up with making the 60nm ring a TFR?
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Where is your map from?

And not all TFRs are created equally and it just may be that wherever that map came from they decided to show the SFRA as a TFR, because basically it is. You need to read the TFR/NOTAM to see what the restrictions are.
 
4CornerFlyer said:
Comments above are incorrect. There is a speed limit within the 60 mile ring. See notam 4/9383:
C. BETWEEN 30NM RADIUS AND 60NM RADIUS OF 385134N0770211W OR THE WASHINGTON DCAVOR/DME, AIRCRAFT MUST MAINTAIN AN AIRSPEED OF 230 KNOTS OR LESS.

Jon
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Thanks, I figured there might be something beyond the taking the course. I forgot about the speed limit, as 230 knots would require a serious tail wind in my plane. Still for most bug smashers, it's a nothing burger.
 
Hang 4 said:
Thanks, I figured there might be something beyond the taking the course. I forgot about the speed limit, as 230 knots would require a serious tail wind in my plane. Still for most bug smashers, it's a nothing burger.
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AIRSPEED! It's an even bigger nothing burger. You can fly with a 300 knot tailwind at 100 knots airspeed and still not be in violation.
 
Same as it ever was. Outer ring is SFRA - requires online course. Inner ring is FRZ - requires DHS background check, training, interview for access to MD3, now MD2 (College Park and Potomac).
IMG_2687.jpeg
 
Steamflyer said:
Same as it ever was. Outer ring is SFRA - requires online course. Inner ring is FRZ - requires DHS background check, training, interview for access to MD3, now MD2 (College Park and Potomac).
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Look more carefully, because that is not what your picture shows.
 
GeorgeC said:
Look more carefully, because that is not what your picture shows.
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Well it's the current status per ForeFlight. Also have transitioned through SFRA and have FRZ clearance. Truthfully, none of it matters in my case since I always file IFR going through, near, or when departing/landing in either part of the TFR. But it doesn't look changed in the app that is pretty much the standard for filing and navigating.
 
Hang 4 said:
Not sure what that has to do with anything. Any airspace is close in a fast airplane. From a regulatory standpoint, the only thing required to be in the 60 mile ring (and outside the 30) is having taken the online course.
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I believe the reason they require the 60 mile ring is because you are in close proximity to the airspace in a fast aircraft and they want you to be familiar with the SFRA and what airports are in and out.
 
GeorgeC said:
Look more carefully, because that is not what your picture shows.
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What doesn't his picture show? Looks like the SFRA/FRZ to me.

Do you think it should show something else? Or not show something else?
 
"They" didn't fubar anything (more than it already was). If you don't like how Foreflight scribbles over the charts, take it up with them. The appearance hasn't changed on tfr.faa.gov.
 
M20K said:
What doesn't his picture show? Looks like the SFRA/FRZ to me.

Do you think it should show something else? Or not show something else?
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Steamflyer said:
Outer ring is SFRA ... Inner ring is FRZ
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In his image,

144490-1f46176389d419eb8b6d71b146d95ea3.jpg

the outer red ring is the 60nm speed ring and the inner red ring is the SFRA, and the FRZ does not have a red border at all.

It looks different to me in ForeFlight right now:
sfra.jpg

@John Collins, any new changes?
 
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GeorgeC said:
the outer red ring is the 60nm speed ring and the inner red ring is the SFRA, and the FRZ does not have a red border at all.
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Ah, that has to do with how FF gets the data from the FAA. It's been that way for about a year and a half now.

Why does the 60NM ring around DC show as a TFR?
The display of the DC SFRA ring depends on the data source:

When Connected to the Internet
ForeFlight displays the 30NM SFRA ring in red, depicting it as a TFR. When using internet data, ForeFlight controls this depiction, ensuring consistency.

When Connected to an ADS-B-In Device
The display comes from the FAA's ADS-B transmitted data. Depending on the ADS-B tower transmitting the data, the 60NM Mode C veil (or DCA VOR DME 60NM ring) may appear as a TFR. Some ADS-B towers show the 30NM SFRA ring as a TFR, while others display the 60NM ring.

Key Differences
ForeFlight does not alter FAA ADS-B data but merely displays what is transmitted.
The internet connection depiction is standardized for clarity, while ADS-B data reflects the FAA's varying transmissions.

ForeFlight: December 30, 2024
 
There's no 60NM Mode C veil. The Mode C (and ADSB) veil is the standard 30NM and it's not centered exclusively on the DCA VOR, but tracks the combined arcs around the DCA, AML, BWI, and ADW VORs. There are 30 and 60NM speed rings and the 60 NM training requirement (listed under "Speed Veil" with the former)
 
For all intents and purposes, for the VFR pilot, the outer 60 nm ring is like a SFRA since you must complete an online course (once) to pass through it. It's not a "speed ring" although there is a concomitant speed restriction. For any pilot, flying VFR or IFR, you need a flight plan to fly in the 30 nm SFRA itself. To fly into the FRZ is yet another level of restriction and training which most will not do unless their travels take them to DC often enough to make it worthwhile for the two additional airports you can access.

FF appropriately makes it all red to make you think if you have the ability to penetrate that airspace like any other red zone.
 
The training requirement is NOTAM 4/9383 which includes the speed rings as well.
 
Steamflyer said:
For all intents and purposes, for the VFR pilot, the outer 60 nm ring is like a SFRA since you must complete an online course (once) to pass through it. It's not a "speed ring" although there is a concomitant speed restriction. For any pilot, flying VFR or IFR, you need a flight plan to fly in the 30 nm SFRA itself. To fly into the FRZ is yet another level of restriction and training which most will not do unless their travels take them to DC often enough to make it worthwhile for the two additional airports you can access.

FF appropriately makes it all red to make you think if you have the ability to penetrate that airspace like any other red zone.
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The training requirement is NOTAM 4/9383, which also includes the speed rings. Explain to me why the speed restrictions are any more or less valid than the training requirement. The fact that you can't do 230 knots, notwithstanding.
 
flyingron said:
The training requirement is NOTAM 4/9383, which also includes the speed rings. Explain to me why the speed restrictions are any more or less valid than the training requirement. The fact that you can't do 230 knots, notwithstanding.
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This is a bug smasher forum for the most part. The vast majority of the aircraft owned and flown on this forum can't indicate 180 knots if they tried. The few that can are higher performance or SETP whose pilots are much more ingrained in the system and have the requisite training. So the speed restriction is valid, but not the issue most on this forum are going to have to deal with.

Much more likely is the POA pilot who might fly into the 60 nm ring without the awareness training. And probably no one would ever know unless they messed up.

I'm sure someone will chime in that their turbo'd Bonanza or Baron can indicate 180, but again, the primary point is situational awareness, not a speed limit. Alternatively stated, if you're wondering what the circles are for, you are very unlikely to be flying a fast x/c machine capable of busting the speed limit.
 
This forum is bugsmashers, but FOREFLIGHT is used by a broad range of users including the turbine crowd.
 
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