Bill
Touchdown! Greaser!
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- Mar 2, 2005
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- Southeast Tennessee
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Did you get to go???
Hey Bill, we sure did.Bill Jennings said:Did you get to go???
Diana said:Found Greg’s grass strip in the hills of Alabama, taxied to his hangar and he snuggled us between his Cub and Decathlon (very tight fit). His grass runway is very rough (the new section), much rougher than ours at the farm. He is still working on it so it should be smoother in the future.
We had ground school the next morning and I flew three sessions. Learned a whole new way to do aileron rolls -- what Greg calls the “Zero G Aileron Roll.”
We did a lot of what he called “Crazy Eights” as prep for the Hammerheads. Actually they seemed like a version of the wingover.
Tom had one lesson with Greg in our Citabria. They did rolls, loops and spins. I really enjoyed watching them from the grass runway. I’d never seen what my Citabria looks like doing aerobatics and was impressed with how graceful it looked from the ground. It doesn’t look that graceful when I am in the pilot’s seat.
It probably does from the ground.
Overall I got some new input on how to do aerobatics with a fixed pitch prop with emphasis on power management, especially to prevent shock cooling.
Personally I don' thing shock cooling is that big of a deal for the engine in your Citabria. The inertial stresses from acro are far more of an issue IMO and there's not much you can do about them.
Greg highly recommends spades, as does most everyone else I talk to. He could tell I wasn’t able to get full aileron deflection for my rolls.You can probably try Chip's new Citabria (with spades) to feel the difference. I suspect that you'll find that you "need" them after that.
Foreshadowing?Diana said:His grass runway is very rough (the new section), much rougher than ours at the farm.
I am so jealous that you can make these kinds of trips. I would love to, but alas, my wife sees an airplane only as a utilitarian instrument and not as a magic carpet.Diana said:As usual it was interesting flying the Citabria cross-country. We love meeting people at different airports and know we may or may not land where we plan and end up spending time in all kinds of interesting places. For us the destination sometimes becomes secondary in importance and the journey itself becomes even more interesting.
Hey Bill, we sure did.
Learned a whole new way to do aileron rolls -- what Greg calls the “Zero G Aileron Roll.”
The Hammerheads were interesting. I’ve done a few in the past and I was reminded once again why I won’t be doing them in the Citabria.
Overall I got some new input on how to do aerobatics with a fixed pitch prop with emphasis on power management, especially to prevent shock cooling.
The winds started gusting to 39 knots...
The next morning we had a 30 plus knot headwind (and 0 to 2 G bumps on the last 2 ½ hour leg). We landed at the farm about ten am with a strong, gusty (25 to 30 knot) wind nearly down the runway.
For us the destination sometimes becomes secondary in importance and the journey itself becomes even more interesting.
lancefisher said:Remember a while back when we were discussing what an "aileron roll" is I suggested you try getting as close to zero G as possible just before starting the roll? Done this way, there is no need for any rudder because a wing producing no lift cannot create adverse yaw. Is this what Greg had you doing?
lancefisher said:Personally I don' thing shock cooling is that big of a deal for the engine in your Citabria. The inertial stresses from acro are far more of an issue IMO and there's not much you can do about them.
lancefisher said:You can probably try Chip's new Citabria (with spades) to feel the difference. I suspect that you'll find that you "need" them after that.
Hopefully when she flies with you to Gaston's it will be different this time?Ken Ibold said:I am so jealous that you can make these kinds of trips. I would love to, but alas, my wife sees an airplane only as a utilitarian instrument and not as a magic carpet.
Bill Jennings said:By power management to prevent shock cooling, did you keep the power up on most maneuvers?
Bill Jennings said:Sounds like a great time. I can't wait for the Gastons flyin, that will be my first nice long trip.
Ron, it's in north central Alabama. Near a little town called Ashville. Northeast of Birmingham and between Birmingham and Gadsden. AL60 is the airstrip.Flyboy said:What part of Alabama?
Diana said:Pretty much. More than I had been originally taught.
Bill Jennings said:OK, that jives with what my guy has been teaching. We pretty much set about 2500rpm in level flight, and then do most maneuvers without ever touching the power setting again. The only ones that we've changed power are the snap (power back and pitch up to 85mph, then full throttle simultanous with snap inputs), and the spin (no power). All the others were mostly set and forget, and use attitude to control speed. Yes, during the dive for the loop, the engine gets right to (but not over) redline.
lancefisher said:Power is much easier to manage with a constant speed prop, with a fixed pitch prop you can easily exceed redline RPM long before reaching Vne in a dive in most planes and this is apt to occur when your attention is riveted on the ground rushing at you.
Bill Jennings said:If my plans for a personal airplane lean towards aerobatic, I'm starting to wonder if I should look at the Super-D over the Citabria. Constant speed prop, added aerobatic capability, and faster cruise for trips. I wonder.
I'm laughing, because this is exactly where I find myself. Fortunately (?), I can't afford anything more super than a Super D, and maybe not even that, so my options are necessarily limited. Bill, be forewarned, the Super D does not do everything. It doesn't have enough power to do vertical rolls or anything that needs a long vertical line. But, hey, for the basic stuff it's fantastic.lancefisher said:Plus the symmetrical wing and higher G limits IIRC. I think you are also more likely to find one with inverted fuel/oil which is important for anything beyond the basics. Then again, what you really "need" would be something like an Extra 300, right?
lancefisher said:Then again, what you really "need" would be something like an Extra 300, right?
Toby said:Bill, be forewarned, the Super D does not do everything. It doesn't have enough power to do vertical rolls or anything that needs a long vertical line. But, hey, for the basic stuff it's fantastic.
People fly them all over the place, but I didn't enjoy flying mine cross country very much. I found it to be an aerobatic airplane that will go cross country if required, not a cross country airplane that also does acro.Bill Jennings said:Is a Pitts any good at all for travel, or is it a one trick pony?
The SuperD is a far more capable aerobatic machine than is a Citabria, but don't count on the cruise speed to be more than nominally better. In exchange, you have a 1400 TBO engine instead of 2000 and a purchase price that's about 1.5 times the Citabria. And unless you get a new one you're also rather more payload limited on the SuperD than on a Citabria.Bill Jennings said:I'm starting to wonder if I should look at the Super-D over the Citabria. Constant speed prop, added aerobatic capability, and faster cruise for trips.
Ken Ibold said:In exchange, you have a 1400 TBO engine instead of 2000 and a purchase price that's about 1.5 times the Citabria. And unless you get a new one you're also rather more payload limited on the SuperD than on a Citabria.
I thought so when I bought mine. I originally was looking at SuperDs, but an American Champion dealer talked me out of it and into a cheaper bird. Imagine that! Citabrias are about the least expensive new planes available, coming in a 2/3rds the price and 3 times the fun of a 172. My only complaint after four years of ownership is that the McCreary tailwheel tires are crap, but I can't find anything better.Bill Jennings said:Between you and Chip, I'm starting to realize the Citabria is really the best choice for an "affordable" multi-purpose light acro plane.
One of the RV's looks like it would be a good all-around plane, but I have zero interest in rolling my own.
gibbons said:People fly them all over the place, but I didn't enjoy flying mine cross country very much. I found it to be an aerobatic airplane that will go cross country if required, not a cross country airplane that also does acro.
Also -- what about heat? I don't know about the Pitts, but some of those airplanes don't have heat, and they get really uncomfortable in the winter. The Sukhoi was freezing, the Extra was freezing. I did a xc in an Extra in January wearing many layers.lancefisher said:I think you'd find that sitting in a Pitts for more than an hour or two will leave you too crippled to walk to the FOB's lounge. Then again IIRC the endurance of the fuel supply won't go much longer anyway. So, you can travel in a Pitts, but you might not like it much. Now if you had a buddy to fly formation with along the way you might be so busy you'd forget about the discomfort.
There are several reasons, some of them having to do with past instruction I've received. The main reason..........I don't want to do tailslides in my Citabria.gonvrtd said:Dianna sounds like an awesome experience. Just curious why you do not like to perform hammerheads in a citabria?
Toby said:Also -- what about heat? I don't know about the Pitts, but some of those airplanes don't have heat, and they get really uncomfortable in the winter. The Sukhoi was freezing, the Extra was freezing. I did a xc in an Extra in January wearing many layers.
Toby said:Also -- what about heat? the Extra was freezing. I did a xc in an Extra in January wearing many layers.
Diana said:Oh, let's see. The last time I rode in the front seat of an Extra in cold weather my left lower leg was on fire and felt like it was going to burst into flames while my right lower leg was so cold it was numb. It was an interesting discussion flying along. "Hey, would you please turn the heat up?" "Hey, would you please turn it down?" "I don't care if you ARE cold back there!". Hmmmm, maybe that's why I haven't been offered a ride in the Extra lately?
lancefisher said:Of course, a chilled version for summer would be nice too!
lancefisher said:I'm surprised no one sells heated flight gear (flight suit, gloves socks etc). Something to plug into the plane's electical system with the ability to adjust the temperature of various parts would be wonderful. Of course, a chilled version for summer would be nice too!
Ken Ibold said:
Ken Ibold said:
Ah, but it's 12V plug in power!lancefisher said:You suppose they have an STC?
I wonder how well they work at +5/-3 G's?