txflyer
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
You get a feel for these things after a while, and I want to agree something is off.
If I'm wrong ...
get pro help OP.
If I'm wrong ...
get pro help OP.
You're kidding, right?
tlglenn
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Ted
You'll want to consult with an AME like Dr. Bruce and follow his guidance.
The FAA does want to know if: "Have You Ever In Your Life Been Diagnosed With, Had, Or Do You Presently Have Any Of The Following...[Item 18(m)] Mental disorders of any sort: depression, anxiety, etc."
At the moment you haven't been diagnosed and you're not qualified to make a self-diagnosis.
For Item 19: "HAVE YOU VISITED ANY HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WITHIN LAST 3 YEARS -- List all visits in the last 3 years to a physician, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, psychologist, clinical social worker, or substance abuse specialist for treatment, examination, or medical/mental evaluation. List visits for counseling only if related to a personal substance abuse or psychiatric condition..."
It seems that if you visit a psychologist or clinical social worker for counseling you don't have to list the visits provided that they don't make an official diagnosis of a psychiatric condition i.e. pay cash instead of using insurance (they want a diagnosis code before accepting a claim). It's possible all you need are routine counseling sessions for therapy. Then you don't have to escalate this to a psychiatrist with medications.
If you are prescribed a SSRI this may be useful:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/
The FAA does want to know if: "Have You Ever In Your Life Been Diagnosed With, Had, Or Do You Presently Have Any Of The Following...[Item 18(m)] Mental disorders of any sort: depression, anxiety, etc."
At the moment you haven't been diagnosed and you're not qualified to make a self-diagnosis.
For Item 19: "HAVE YOU VISITED ANY HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WITHIN LAST 3 YEARS -- List all visits in the last 3 years to a physician, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, psychologist, clinical social worker, or substance abuse specialist for treatment, examination, or medical/mental evaluation. List visits for counseling only if related to a personal substance abuse or psychiatric condition..."
It seems that if you visit a psychologist or clinical social worker for counseling you don't have to list the visits provided that they don't make an official diagnosis of a psychiatric condition i.e. pay cash instead of using insurance (they want a diagnosis code before accepting a claim). It's possible all you need are routine counseling sessions for therapy. Then you don't have to escalate this to a psychiatrist with medications.
If you are prescribed a SSRI this may be useful:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/
poadeleted20
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BTW, when you are evaluating the advice you receive from anonymous persons, think about it carefully when that person suggests you lie or conceal facts. Consider whether you'd trust your life to someone who suggests that, and then act accordingly.
And this is an issue that goes far beyond questions of filling out FAA medical applications -- choose wisely in life, not just aviation.
And this is an issue that goes far beyond questions of filling out FAA medical applications -- choose wisely in life, not just aviation.
U
Unregistered
Guest
This is the OP, and to people saying this isn't a real situation, honestly, I'm trying my hardest not to go into in all-out flame war. You don't understand my pain. You don't understand my REAL situation. This is absolutely and completely real. Again, why would anyone make this up? Anyone who does is a sick disgusting person. I honestly am so offended and hurt that people would go right to that, I mean I know they would on other forums, but this is a pilot forum; I thought we're supposed to be better than the average internet flamer.
To those who have given me real advice, thank you. It means more to me than you'll ever know.
To those who have told me "aviation is not for you" or "the OP isn't real" let me tell you something: you are all incredibly lucky, because you are so inexperienced with depression you honestly have no idea how to handle it, what it feels like, and what little phrases like that do to someone. So, consider yourself lucky that a one line sentence might not rob you of sleep for a week.
To those who have said that it might just be a coming-of-age type of thing, thank you for your consideration of the situation, but that's just not it. I know this is the third time I've said this, but unless you've been there, you don't understand. Until you've cried yourself to the little sleep you ever get every night for 2 years, you don't understand. You just don't. I'm sure all the doubters will jump on that line and call BS, and I can't stop that from happening, but it is the honest truth.
Once again, to those who were considerate enough to actually provide advice, thank you. You have really opened my eyes and help me set my priorities straight. Thank you. To the last poster, maybe it's because I'm tired and I just didn't read it correctly, but is that stating that if I just went to counseling, and I wasn't diagnosed with anything, I don't have to tell the FAA and it's not an issue?
To those referring to suicide, I'm sorry, but even anonymously, that's too personal for me to go into with the potential for me to get flamed on. To the person who was disgusting enough to crack a joke about it, I honestly hope nobody close to you becomes depressed, because you will push them to suicide faster than any other factor.
To those who have given me real advice, thank you. It means more to me than you'll ever know.
To those who have told me "aviation is not for you" or "the OP isn't real" let me tell you something: you are all incredibly lucky, because you are so inexperienced with depression you honestly have no idea how to handle it, what it feels like, and what little phrases like that do to someone. So, consider yourself lucky that a one line sentence might not rob you of sleep for a week.
To those who have said that it might just be a coming-of-age type of thing, thank you for your consideration of the situation, but that's just not it. I know this is the third time I've said this, but unless you've been there, you don't understand. Until you've cried yourself to the little sleep you ever get every night for 2 years, you don't understand. You just don't. I'm sure all the doubters will jump on that line and call BS, and I can't stop that from happening, but it is the honest truth.
Once again, to those who were considerate enough to actually provide advice, thank you. You have really opened my eyes and help me set my priorities straight. Thank you. To the last poster, maybe it's because I'm tired and I just didn't read it correctly, but is that stating that if I just went to counseling, and I wasn't diagnosed with anything, I don't have to tell the FAA and it's not an issue?
To those referring to suicide, I'm sorry, but even anonymously, that's too personal for me to go into with the potential for me to get flamed on. To the person who was disgusting enough to crack a joke about it, I honestly hope nobody close to you becomes depressed, because you will push them to suicide faster than any other factor.
U
Unregistered
Guest
That's a whole other story my friend, but in short, oblivious.
Flymeariver
Pattern Altitude
Siblings? Anyone in family to talk to? Girlfriend/ Boyfriend? There has to be someone to talk to and that will let you cry without judgement.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Yes, I have someone to let it all out to. I don't want to say who because honestly this post is becoming so specific I'm afraid if like my CFI stumbled upon it he/she would know it's me.
Flymeariver
Pattern Altitude
I understand. Just dont bottle stuff up, but just saying try all other avenues before medication. Medication doesnt always make stuff better in reality.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
Something's not right here.
LoneAspen
Line Up and Wait
I had my own issue recently where I could have weighed "see doctor, get treated, and deal with FAA hurdles later" vs "stick it out, hope it gets better". Except my issue was around OSA (obstructive sleep apnea), for which I was diagnosed and prescribed CPAP therapy.
I've adapted to the therapy very well, don't have any insomnia issues anymore (which was my first indicator something wasn't right), sleep far better than I was before, and I know I'm preventing future medical problems by having been diagnosed and treated.
I know I did the right thing by pursuing professional treatment, and just that alone is a HUGE relief. Yes, there will probably be some hurdles I have to jump when I eventually go for my medical, but you know what? I know I'll still be around to deal with that, and I'm in far better health than I otherwise would have been.
I would imagine flying might seem like it's the only light at the end of the tunnel, and that's why you don't want to risk it. But I would bet that after getting diagnosed by a competent and caring doctor, and getting the right treatment, you're going to emerge from that tunnel and I bet those hurdles won't seem as big and risky as they do now, plus a whole lot of other opportunities are going to open up.
Good luck!
denverpilot
Tied Down
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
You said it!
Challenged
Pattern Altitude
Following information typed by my wife:
Hi 15 year old pursuing your dream! I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and have worked with teens for most of my career. My husband let me read your concerns about depression and issues with taking anti-depressants getting in your way of piloting. You are right that depression is not an easy fix. Typically, it can be difficult to treat and requires a long-term investment in counseling or therapy, not just 3 sessions as you mentioned. I would highly recommend you find a professional to talk to-- a Licensed Counselor, Social Worker, or Psychologist. Different therapists can offer alternatives to non-psychotropic medications. For example, there are a variety of "talk therapy" methods like Cognitive Behavioral therapy and others that are proven to be effective, also other therapists may have certifications in biofeedback, EMDR, or EFT that can be useful for mood disorders, or even more alternative treatments to look into further could be Reikki practitioners, yoga or yoga therapists, or maybe a nutritionist or someone who practices in holistic medicine. They may be able to work with you on herbs and nutrition. All of these would be non-medical interventions and may meet your requirements for the FAA. Another idea would be to see a psychologist who has prescription privileges (as opposed to a psychiatrist) if they have that in your state. This might be a good person to get an evaluation from and discuss treatment and medication options that would work with your piloting goals and FAA requirements. I strongly encourage you to get help first as this will help you achieve your goals in the long run even if your timeline for your goals has to change. Good luck!
Hi 15 year old pursuing your dream! I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and have worked with teens for most of my career. My husband let me read your concerns about depression and issues with taking anti-depressants getting in your way of piloting. You are right that depression is not an easy fix. Typically, it can be difficult to treat and requires a long-term investment in counseling or therapy, not just 3 sessions as you mentioned. I would highly recommend you find a professional to talk to-- a Licensed Counselor, Social Worker, or Psychologist. Different therapists can offer alternatives to non-psychotropic medications. For example, there are a variety of "talk therapy" methods like Cognitive Behavioral therapy and others that are proven to be effective, also other therapists may have certifications in biofeedback, EMDR, or EFT that can be useful for mood disorders, or even more alternative treatments to look into further could be Reikki practitioners, yoga or yoga therapists, or maybe a nutritionist or someone who practices in holistic medicine. They may be able to work with you on herbs and nutrition. All of these would be non-medical interventions and may meet your requirements for the FAA. Another idea would be to see a psychologist who has prescription privileges (as opposed to a psychiatrist) if they have that in your state. This might be a good person to get an evaluation from and discuss treatment and medication options that would work with your piloting goals and FAA requirements. I strongly encourage you to get help first as this will help you achieve your goals in the long run even if your timeline for your goals has to change. Good luck!
DFH65
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DFH65
Not completely ready to say this is bogus but I have a hard time believing the poster is actually 15. I get the opportunity to see a lot of kids write I work at a college and most 20 year olds don't know how to write a sentence with proper punctuation.
I am not sure the point of your post if you are just looking for sympathetic ears well I am sorry you are struggling with a difficult decision. If you are looking for a way around this, unfortunately life is often full of decisions that don't have easy answers or the answer we want.
Bottom line is this, if you want to just fly there are ways to do that even with a diagnosis of depression and prescription meds (light sport, ultra-light, gliders) . If you want all the ratings and a possible career there is currently no path to do that if you get your depression treated as you should.
My personal recommendation is that if this is legit see a doctor. Real chemical based depression is nothing to mess around with and fly for fun.
I am not sure the point of your post if you are just looking for sympathetic ears well I am sorry you are struggling with a difficult decision. If you are looking for a way around this, unfortunately life is often full of decisions that don't have easy answers or the answer we want.
Bottom line is this, if you want to just fly there are ways to do that even with a diagnosis of depression and prescription meds (light sport, ultra-light, gliders) . If you want all the ratings and a possible career there is currently no path to do that if you get your depression treated as you should.
My personal recommendation is that if this is legit see a doctor. Real chemical based depression is nothing to mess around with and fly for fun.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't think FAA Medical deals in logic.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
The thing I don't get is, why do some people feel the need to play mind-reader? What difference will it make in your life either way?
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
What's not right here is that there are people here who are delusional enough to think they can determine whether an anonymous person they have never met is telling the truth about their own state of mind.
Jimmy cooper
En-Route
No ....your wrong. There's no way this kid can solve his problem on this site. He needs to seek professional help and has been given this advise ad nauseum. However he just keeps keeping on with the " yes, but you don't understand" type reply. Seems fishy to me and several others.
Piloto
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Piloto
Are you a guy or a girl or something else? It makes a difference, specially if you are transitioning. A friend of mine (72) got depress when he found out that his "girlfriend (35)" turn out to be a guy in transition. He found out when he caught her in front of the toilet peeing, girls just don't make that loud noise when doing it. He gave me his $70 Viagra bottle and said "stick to your plane, at least you know what you are getting".
Were you sexually abused? I was "abused" by my high school teacher but she said it was part of the education program. Never got depress.
At 15 girls were more appealing to me than planes.
Get in love with someone or get a puppy. Small dogs are a lot fun to take care specially when you share with someone you love.
José
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Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Poor writing and improper punctuation are rampant among Internet posters of all ages, and yet there are exceptions. You implicitly acknowledge that there are exceptions among young people by your use of the word "most," so using his writing skill as a reason to disbelieve him would be just plain silly.
There's only one person here who knows whether the OP is telling the truth about himself, and that's the OP. For those who are SURE that you know, ask yourself this: "What are the potential consequences if I am wrong?" That question alone leads me to give people the benefit of the doubt on things like this.
poadeleted20
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Essentially, yes. The only time "counseling" must be reported on the FAA medical application is when it is for "a personal substance abuse or psychiatric condition", so if there's no diagnosis of any kind, it need not be reported.
However, without some sort of diagnosis, it may be difficult to obtain insurance payment for that counseling, and it may be impossible to obtain any prescription medication -- and clinical depression is a "psychiatric condition" in this context. So, before any paper gets generated, talk this over with the counselor and make sure where you stand before you start the counseling. This may require some discussion with your parents, since they may have to foot the bill for your counseling out of pocket rather than being reimbursed by your family's medical insurer if there's no diagnosis.
I would add that some of the non-traditional medication options mentioned above are still considered "medications" by the FAA, and must be reported on the medical application. That will inevitably result in having to explain to the FAA why you are taking them, which could open the can of worms you are trying to avoid.
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Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
OK, let me get this straight: Are you actually claiming that you have the ability to determine with certainty whether an anonymous Internet poster whom you have never met is telling the truth about his or her own state of mind?
Probably true, especially seeing the way some here are handling it.
I don't find it at all fishy that a person who is struggling with an emotional issue might get into a mental loop like that.
txflyer
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
Because if he's for real, he should not be commanding a flying machine and he's been given that advice.
And if he's not, then we've been had by some sort of shill or troll.
I don't know about where you come from, but where I'm from, we don't like to be someone's sport. Even if it's just cyber babble. This is a serious forum. Not a comedian site. People's lives depend on things discussed here....
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Unless you are the original unregistered poster do not post anonymously, particularly to make snarky commentary. A number of posts have been deleted from this thread for that reason.
Piloto
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Piloto
How do you know is a he. These days you can't trust what you see.
Can you get a pilot certificate or even a drivers license at age 15. Who is going to rent this kid a plane?
I just hope someone's life do not rely on what is discussed here.
José
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txflyer
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
You just reinforced my point.
For all intents and purposes, the 'kid' has been told what's what. The thread should be closed or reconciled regardless of it's authenticity.
Anything else is speculation and flame pride from here on ...
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Life isn't always about what we like.
If we assume he or she is for real and we're wrong, the downside is that some of us have wasted our time.
If we assume he or she is not for real and we're wrong, the consequences could be a lot worse.
Even if you were somehow SURE that the poster wasn't for real, the only ethical thing to do is not participate in the discussion, because NO ONE has the ability to make that kind of judgment infallibly.
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Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
If you open the "Thread Tools" menu near the top of the page, you can select "Ignore this Thread," and then it won't appear on your screen.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Hey guys, OP here. To those that still have doubts, I'm not wasting any more time convincing you. To the person who had doubts due to my grammar and mechanics, I take that as a compliment.
First, why I came here. I came here because I needed a guiding voice. I needed some reassurance to go get help. I just needed to hear it from someone else. The only "you don't understands" came from the people who said it was just because I'm a teenager.
Second, I am not at risk to any others. If any lives are at stake, it's none but my own. I'm not gonna slam my plane into the terminal of a bravo because I'm sad. Please, don't be ridiculous. I never fly when I feel it's not right. There was a flight where I was going for a standard flight to do stalls, slow flight, etc. We had gone up, gone crosswind, and I told my flight instructor I just need to come back in. Today is not my day and I don't feel right. We came back in, put the plane away, and just studied until my time was up. I take the lives of others very seriously; I would never put anyone at risk.
Third, to the social worker who wrote her response. Thank you. I really appreciate that. It was very helpful.
Fourth, I'll clarify a few questions. One, I am a guy. Two, I do not have any of the issues mentioned. I'm not questioning my sexuality, gender preference, or anything of that nature. Aside from being sad, I'm a normal teenage boy. Well, a normal teenage boy who's a little too obsessed with planes. To those saying fall in love, find a girl. I am in love, and I have been for a very long time, and I've been with that person for a very long time. They have helped me tremendously.
Finally, the conclusion. I didn't mean to cause drama with this post; I didn't think there would be any. I guess it's been too long since I've been active on a forum and forgot that sharing personal details is just a very bad idea. To those who have stuck by my story and given me advice, thank you so much. You have given me the push to get the help I need. It might take a while, but I think eventually I'll do it. Your advice may very well have played a key roll in saving a life. Thank you everyone for your advice in this situation. Maybe a while from now I'll make an update thread. Hopefully with good news. I wish you all the best of luck in your flying careers, thank you.
First, why I came here. I came here because I needed a guiding voice. I needed some reassurance to go get help. I just needed to hear it from someone else. The only "you don't understands" came from the people who said it was just because I'm a teenager.
Second, I am not at risk to any others. If any lives are at stake, it's none but my own. I'm not gonna slam my plane into the terminal of a bravo because I'm sad. Please, don't be ridiculous. I never fly when I feel it's not right. There was a flight where I was going for a standard flight to do stalls, slow flight, etc. We had gone up, gone crosswind, and I told my flight instructor I just need to come back in. Today is not my day and I don't feel right. We came back in, put the plane away, and just studied until my time was up. I take the lives of others very seriously; I would never put anyone at risk.
Third, to the social worker who wrote her response. Thank you. I really appreciate that. It was very helpful.
Fourth, I'll clarify a few questions. One, I am a guy. Two, I do not have any of the issues mentioned. I'm not questioning my sexuality, gender preference, or anything of that nature. Aside from being sad, I'm a normal teenage boy. Well, a normal teenage boy who's a little too obsessed with planes. To those saying fall in love, find a girl. I am in love, and I have been for a very long time, and I've been with that person for a very long time. They have helped me tremendously.
Finally, the conclusion. I didn't mean to cause drama with this post; I didn't think there would be any. I guess it's been too long since I've been active on a forum and forgot that sharing personal details is just a very bad idea. To those who have stuck by my story and given me advice, thank you so much. You have given me the push to get the help I need. It might take a while, but I think eventually I'll do it. Your advice may very well have played a key roll in saving a life. Thank you everyone for your advice in this situation. Maybe a while from now I'll make an update thread. Hopefully with good news. I wish you all the best of luck in your flying careers, thank you.
U
Unregistered
Guest
Thank you very much for all the defending of me you've done. Some of the things you've said just sum up exactly what I'm thinking perfectly. People don't realize the consequences their words can have on someone. Thank you.
Jim Logajan
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.
If you and several others have a problem with the poster, please don't read or post further to this thread. I get that you are frustrated that the problem hasn't been instantly resolved.
I'm technically an adult (58) and at my age don't appreciate others "protecting" me from wasting my time when I choose to assume an anonymous poster is legitimate. Certainly not when it deals with mental health. I have known three people who eventually attempted suicide - one succeeded. One of her kids found her body in their garage.
If you must persist in your amateur sleuthing for whatever reason drives you, may I suggest you take it to private messages or other mechanisms that are outside this thread?
U
Unregistered
Guest
OP here, and as a 15 year old who's story is exactly what's described here, like the last person who said it, I take that as a compliment. Although it may be shocking, quite honestly it is to me too, not all teenagers are arrogant a holes who can't form a proper sentence and don't know the difference between to, two, and too; and your and you're; however, there's all too many like that.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
By the way, "who's" = "who is." The possessive form of "who" is "whose."
Ironically, by the logic of some, that error, together with the run-on in your last sentence, should increase your credibility in this thread.
It's pretty much the norm for some people on the Internet to think they're mind readers. Although it bugs me, it's probably best to remember that you don't really need to convince anyone here of anything.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yeah, because 40-year-olds on the Internet are so good at spelling, punctuation, and grammar.
