Delta pilot makes ‘aggressive maneuver’ to avoid mid-air collision with B-52 bomber

Do Airlines give the flight crews any guidance on giving the pax a rundown of situations like this?
 
I didn’t watch this video, but so far every report I’ve seen of this incident had only spoken with passengers. No flight crew, ATC, or other firsthand, much less knowledgeable, information. Do we know how aggressive the maneuver was? How far apart the planes really were, versus how far apart the regional jet crew thought they were? Was either plane out of contact with Minot Approach for some reason? (Minot Approach is provided by the AFB and provides radar services to aircraft near both the AFB and the international airport.)
 
the key phrase is "due regard" - which means different things to different people.
 
Bacho said:
Do Airlines give the flight crews any guidance on giving the pax a rundown of situations like this?
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Can't speak to Skywest's manual, but ours just gives general recommendations (don't lie, try not to say things like 'fire', 'emergency', etc). We're free to do our thing.
 
Bob Noel said:
the key phrase is "due regard" - which means different things to different people.
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Was “due regard” used by the bomber crew on the radio? That’s not something used in the national airspace system.
 
I just curious what exactly was the aggressive maneuver? Was it just a go-around? Was it a TCAS RA? Also curious is this will add fuel to the fire regarding military aircraft, ATC, and ADS-B since the collision earlier this year.
 
The pilots rather long winded announcement to the passengers sounded a little bit to me like he thought he may have over reacted a little bit
 
Incidentally, I just saw a social media post about the North Dakota State Fair, which is held around now in Minot every year. The post mentioned a B-52 fly-over. Here's a screenshot showing the AFB, international airport (which was probably landing regional jets on 31), and State Fair grandstand locations.

Edit to add: The stage faces west. I don’t know which direction the fly-over went but westbound to appear from behind/above the stage would make sense.

1753112416800.png
 
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iamtheari said:
Incidentally, I just saw a social media post about the North Dakota State Fair, which is held around now in Minot every year. The post mentioned a B-52 fly-over. Here's a screenshot showing the AFB, international airport (which was probably landing regional jets on 31), and State Fair grandstand locations.

Edit to add: The stage faces west. I don’t know which direction the fly-over went but westbound to appear from behind/above the stage would make sense.

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Here’s SkyW’s ADSB track. Looks like a go around at about 700AGL on the approach to Minot. No idea where the BUFF was or who he was talking to.
 

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TCABM said:
Here’s SkyW’s ADSB track. Looks like a go around at about 700AGL on the approach to Minot. No idea where the BUFF was or who he was talking to.
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Hopefully the Buff was talking to Magic City Tower (KMOT) since it was in their Class D airspace.
 
JimLAFB said:
Buff was westbound over Fairgrounds stage. Delta was hdg 310 on approach and looked to climb at about 1800fpm and turn north. Don't know how aggressive it was.

www.kfyrtv.com

Concertgoer at state fair captures two planes around the time of a near miss above Minot

Concertgoer at state fair captures two planes around the time of a near miss above Minot
www.kfyrtv.com www.kfyrtv.com
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Certainly not going to look good in the court of public opinion with the recent accident. I wonder what coordination was in place for the flyover, if any.
 
I don't much much stock in these reports after a Southwest reported a near miss with a glider (Me).
I saw them approaching me a full minute (3 miles+) before they got to me, I did two more circles and then maneuvered away from their flight path. At the closest we might have come with in a mile of each other on diverging vectors.

After that I believe a near miss in "airline speak" is we saw another aircraft.

Aggressive maneuver is perhaps I turned the dial on the autopilot.

Brian
 
midwestpa24 said:
Certainly not going to look good in the court of public opinion with the recent accident. I wonder what coordination was in place for the flyover, if any.
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Everybody involved had a flight plan filed. MOT apparently does not have RADAR in the tower.
 
brcase said:
I don't much much stock in these reports after a Southwest reported a near miss with a glider (Me).
I saw them approaching me a full minute (3 miles+) before they got to me, I did two more circles and then maneuvered away from their flight path. At the closest we might have come with in a mile of each other on diverging vectors.

After that I believe a near miss in "airline speak" is we saw another aircraft.

Aggressive maneuver is perhaps I turned the dial on the autopilot.

Brian
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This one does appear to be nearer than your incident. The point due east of the fairground stage on the runway 31 approach path is 9,300 feet from the 1,000-foot markers on the runway. That's 490 AGL on a 3-degree slope, and 3,600 feet behind the fairground stage. Whether or not the Buff was respecting the 500-foot rule, this would have been a very close call vertically, evidently a close call horizontally, and at a busy point in the flight plan of both planes (timed crowd flyover for B-52, short final approach for regional jet).
 
brcase said:
I don't much much stock in these reports after a Southwest reported a near miss with a glider (Me).
I saw them approaching me a full minute (3 miles+) before they got to me, I did two more circles and then maneuvered away from their flight path. At the closest we might have come with in a mile of each other on diverging vectors.

After that I believe a near miss in "airline speak" is we saw another aircraft.

Aggressive maneuver is perhaps I turned the dial on the autopilot.

Brian
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I don’t get it you fly within a mile or two and the other plane thinks it a close midair.

You fly into Sun n Fun wing tip to wing tip, butt to butt and nobody is concerned.

Perception I suppose.
 
bonefishpete said:
Perception I suppose.
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Expectations. At big airshows, you should expect to be close to other planes. At Minot International Airport, on short final after a routine IFR trip from your hub, without any perceptible turns between taking off 30R at KMSP and landing 31 at KMOT, with the air base about 10 miles to the north and well out of your way, you don't normally expect to see an 8-engine warplane smoking its way toward you.
 
bonefishpete said:
I don’t get it you fly within a mile or two and the other plane thinks it a close midair.

You fly into Sun n Fun wing tip to wing tip, butt to butt and nobody is concerned.

Perception I suppose.
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Exactly, was repositioning and airplane with another glider pilot and ATC advised Traffic 12:00, 500 feet above us opposite direction. As the Traffic passed over, the other aircraft came on the air and said "that was close." My friend and I looked each other like, if he only knew we frequently thermal together in the gliders. AKA Slow Flight, Steep Turns, in loose formation with with each other. Ideal position is positioned 180 degrees across from the other glider so we can both see each other.

Brian
 
brcase said:
I don't much much stock in these reports after a Southwest reported a near miss with a glider (Me).
I saw them approaching me a full minute (3 miles+) before they got to me, I did two more circles and then maneuvered away from their flight path. At the closest we might have come with in a mile of each other on diverging vectors.

After that I believe a near miss in "airline speak" is we saw another aircraft.

Aggressive maneuver is perhaps I turned the dial on the autopilot.

Brian
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I'm amazed they reported anything. I've gotten much closer to Southwest without any indication they ever knew I was there.
 
Lindberg said:
I'm amazed they reported anything. I've gotten much closer to Southwest without any indication they ever knew I was there.
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Sometimes it comes down to how the TCAS responds - if it issues an RA that requires me to maneuver the airplane, I'm required to file a report.
 
kayoh190 said:
Sometimes it comes down to how the TCAS responds - if it issues an RA that requires me to maneuver the airplane, I'm required to file a report.
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Unless the system has changed, TCAS RAs don't require "aggressive" maneuvers.
 
farmrjohn said:
Unless the system has changed, TCAS RAs don't require "aggressive" maneuvers.
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Right, but I was responding to a post about reporting, not aggressiveness.
 
farmrjohn said:
Unless the system has changed, TCAS RAs don't require "aggressive" maneuvers.
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There was some aviation “expert” on a news show who calculated that the airliner banked to 25 degrees, which he characterized as extreme. Dudes like him are why some pilots are terrified of turns.
 
luvflyin said:
Where did you hear that MOT Tower doesn’t have RADAR
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The SkyW pilot.

“In the video, the pilot noted that Minot’s small airport does not operate radar and directs flights visually. …”

As reported by two AP writers; that quote is on multiple sites subscribing to AP wire service.

https://apnews.com/article/airline-...north-dakota-d4fb212c7875e89b2e9c7ec29709d74d A pilot made sharp turn to avoid a B-52 bomber over North Dakota, then took to the mic to explain | Us | idahopress.com

I can’t find a source outlining whether MOT has a tower radar display or not, which doesn’t (to my knowledge) require a co-located RADAR on the field.
 
GeorgeC said:
@hindsight2020 does the BUFF fly NoE? :biggrin:
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No. And haven't for a long time. Technically it never did; the B-1 was the only one outfitted with bona fide TF, the stuff in the BUFF was TA at best, and it was lousy. Thankfully they did away with most of those modern-combat-ineffective party tricks, by the time the last crew got killed flathatting with it (to borrow brownshoe nomenclature).

All that said, this "news" looks to be a whole lotta nothing. Slow news day. Back in my day we made real news, like flying across the Great Plains and landing one thousand miles away....then finding out those are actual glowsticks hanging off the pylons! Oops.

Always found it a bit too on the nose, HAF would choose to entrust PL1 assets to the only kids in the class who didn't get what they wanted out of pilot training, then get pikachu face as SECAF ends up live on CNN giving his best Baghdad Bob rendition. :rofl: #FAFO
 
hindsight2020 said:
No. And haven't for a long time. Technically it never did; the B-1 was the only one outfitted with bona fide TF, the stuff in the BUFF was TA at best, and it was lousy. Thankfully they did away with most of those modern-combat-ineffective party tricks, by the time the last crew got killed flathatting with it (to borrow brownshoe nomenclature).

All that said, this "news" looks to be a whole lotta nothing. Slow news day. Back in my day we made real news, like flying across the Great Plains and landing one thousand miles away....then finding out those are actual glowsticks hanging off the pylons! Oops.

Always found it a bit too on the nose, HAF would choose to entrust PL1 assets to the only kids in the class who didn't get what they wanted out of pilot training, then get pikachu face as SECAF ends up live on CNN giving his best Baghdad Bob rendition. :rofl: #FAFO
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The rest of the story:

en.m.wikipedia.org

2007 United States Air Force nuclear weapons incident - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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