Delta looses a half billion

[JGoodish]

Delta has given back a ton of money to shareholders, and of their selves. Which is fine. They brag about it while trying to get the pilots to take concessions. Not fine.

If this were a legitimate concern, there has always been a way to fix it: become a shareholder and assume some risk.

I consider Delta and SWA to be far and away the two best US-based carriers, and their overall performance pretty much proves that out. However, I can't stand the commuter airlines, so I usually pick SWA since I know that I'll be on a 737 with a crew that doesn't act like they hate their jobs and hate the passengers even more (my last experience on a Delta commuter).

I haven't encountered screaming kids on SWA except to and from Florida, but it seems that they are flying fuller flights than they used to, and have more business travelers in the mix. Or, it could just be the present-day karma that some people have that puts them on lots of flights with screaming kids.


JKG

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

If this were a legitimate concern, there has always been a way to fix it: become a shareholder and assume some risk.

I consider Delta and SWA to be far and away the two best US-based carriers, and their overall performance pretty much proves that out. However, I can't stand the commuter airlines, so I usually pick SWA since I know that I'll be on a 737 with a crew that doesn't act like they hate their jobs and hate the passengers even more (my last experience on a Delta commuter).

I haven't encountered screaming kids on SWA except to and from Florida, but it seems that they are flying fuller flights than they used to, and have more business travelers in the mix. Or, it could just be the present-day karma that some people have that puts them on lots of flights with screaming kids.


JKG

Which Delta "commuter" were you on, out of curiosity?

 

[NoHeat]

Somewhere, there's gotta be a counterparty to those fuel contracts who is happy as can be.

 

[Silvaire]

Unfortunately, a half billion dollar loss does not result in a half billion taken off their taxes.

Why is that "unfortunate"? Because if it did wouldn't that mean the tax rate was 100%

 

[JGoodish]

Which Delta "commuter" were you on, out of curiosity?

Good question. It's been a year or so. May have been ExpressJet or Endeavor. However, I've also flown on United and USAir commuters (all east coast) and none of them were even remotely as close to pleasant as flying on the mainline carrier (with the possible exception of United...I'm not sure how they have any loyal customers after my experience a few weeks ago.)

I don't care for the smaller aircraft operated by the commuters, and I've observed enough broken seats, seat belts, overhead bin doors, and other ancillary equipment on these "newer" airplanes that I naturally wonder what's broken that I can't see. If you want to ensure a great customer experience, you better make sure that your equipment doesn't look like the inside of a flight school rental airplane.

I now go out of my way to book Delta mainline or SWA, usually the latter, even if it means more connections. I've had a couple of negative experiences on SWA over the years, but the company has responded promptly, and the positives far outnumber the negatives. No equipment worries and usually no registration on the misery index from SWA people.


JKG

 

[Fearless Tower]

I haven't encountered screaming kids on SWA except to and from Florida, but it seems that they are flying fuller flights than they used to, and have more business travelers in the mix. Or, it could just be the present-day karma that some people have that puts them on lots of flights with screaming kids.


JKG

FWIW, One of the things SWA used to bill itself as was the 'family friendly' airline.

When Herb retired, they really started pushing for the business crowd and started treating families like second class citizens.

That may be a reason you haven't seen as many kids on Southwest flights.

 

[GlennAB1]

Not really. There's a little thing called capitalization and depreciation. Screwing up purchasing of consumables (i.e. Fuel) hurts far far more in the books than buying capitalized equipment.

From a shareholder perspective this is basically as if Delta execs took the money from all those baggage fees and said "Hey, we could double our money..." so they went to Vegas, put it all on red on the roulette table and then lost it all. They just look stupid. They were gullible enough to make a huge bet and someone smarter than them was more than keen to take the bet, and made out like a bandit.

They could have happen to them, what happened to TWA. All of their assets sold and then leased back at exorbitant amounts, purposefully devaluing the company and making it ripe for buyout. Done by the corporate raider that's backing Donald Trump.

 

[denverpilot]

Maybe they're Too Big To Fail. Which politicians cover their districts?

 

[JGoodish]

FWIW, One of the things SWA used to bill itself as was the 'family friendly' airline.

When Herb retired, they really started pushing for the business crowd and started treating families like second class citizens.

That may be a reason you haven't seen as many kids on Southwest flights.

I've never felt treated like a second class citizen on SWA, with or without my family in tow.

As I mentioned, certain routes seem to have more kids than others, but that's probably true of every airline.


JKG

 

[Kritchlow]

They are in heated negotiations... I'm not surprised the bean counters are showing a "loose".

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

FWIW, One of the things SWA used to bill itself as was the 'family friendly' airline.

When Herb retired, they really started pushing for the business crowd and started treating families like second class citizens.

That may be a reason you haven't seen as many kids on Southwest flights.

The bigger reason WN changed so much was the integration of AirTran, which was a vastly different corporate culture.

 

[Kritchlow]

SW sucks from a passenger standpoint IMO.
From a pilot standpoint??? Pluses and minuses. IMO mor minuses.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I thought y'all were pilots, why are you flying commercial?

 

[Fearless Tower]

I've never felt treated like a second class citizen on SWA, with or without my family in tow.

I don't know if it is still the case, but there was a period right around the time that Herb retired and they were pushing the Business Select fares that they made a big shift in family boarding: family boarding was moved from pre-boarding to after the A group was finished.

Trying to lug car seats down the aisle and get an infant toddler settled while the airplane is already half full is a royal pain in the ass for everyone. We stopped flying SWA entirely as a family because of that and have been with Delta for the most part since. We don't need to pre-board anymore, but Delta still offers pre-boarding for families with small children before the first class cabin.

 

[Fearless Tower]

SW sucks from a passenger standpoint IMO.
From a pilot standpoint??? Pluses and minuses. IMO mor minuses.

In the history of Southwest, they never had a labor dispute.....until Herb left.

 

[Fearless Tower]

The bigger reason WN changed so much was the integration of AirTran, which was a vastly different corporate culture.

True, but the change was already in motion.

 

[JGoodish]

SW sucks from a passenger standpoint IMO.
From a pilot standpoint??? Pluses and minuses. IMO mor minuses.

As a passenger, I can say without a doubt that my experiences on SWA have sucked a whole lot less than every other airline. SWA is pretty much the only airline that remains customer-focused. About the only thing that I really don't like is the open seating, although that and their boarding process works a whole lot better than what United is doing right now, for example. I've only once traveled on an upgraded fare, and can't even remember the last time that I didn't get the seat I wanted (but I almost always to go the rear of the airplane).


JKG

 

[JGoodish]

I don't know if it is still the case, but there was a period right around the time that Herb retired and they were pushing the Business Select fares that they made a big shift in family boarding: family boarding was moved from pre-boarding to after the A group was finished.

When Herb left, they put the then-CFO in charge, which apparently didn't work out so well. It was very short-lived from what a recall. In fairness, I think that 9/11 hit in that same period of time, and Herb came back to right the ship. Gary Kelly seems to have done much better than his predecessor.

I don't remember a time when pre-boarding was after the entire A group, but I believe that it is still after Business Select (A1-15). There aren't that many people in A1-15. Even when my family and I have held B group boarding passes, we've never had an issue finding seats that we wanted. Then again, we carry on minimal luggage (always checked car seats) so we aren't fighting for bin space during boarding, either.

If you're flying on SWA, the key to success is early check-in and a presence at the gate prior to boarding. If you wait or forget, or you're late to the gate, you're probably going to get screwed.

I like Delta, too, but my good experiences have been limited to the mainline carrier. However, Delta is almost always more expensive than SWA where I live, and most routes end up connecting through ATL or DTW, two places I'd rather avoid.


JKG

 

[Everskyward]

I like the way boarding works at Southwest, but I almost always travel alone so there is no need to find adjoining seats. I can see why it would be more of a PITA for a family. Family boarding is after the A group. But that is just for families with a child under 6(?).