declining flight following out of Class C

dmspilot

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What happens if you decline flight following out of a Class C airport? I have always received it automatically, but the other day was asked if I wanted it or not. Do they have you squawk 1200 and not contact departure?
 
What happens if you decline flight following out of a Class C airport? I have always received it automatically, but the other day was asked if I wanted it or not. Do they have you squawk 1200 and not contact departure?

I would expect to be handed off to departure and they would terminate contact instead of handing me off to the next agency.
 
You can decline flight following after you leave the C-space, but you have no choice about accepting ATC service from takeoff to the C-space boundary. If you're asked by Clearance Delivery if you want flight following, what they're really asking as whether or not you want continued service beyond that boundary. So, if you say "no", then when you reach the boundary, they'll say something like "Cessna 123, you are leaving the Class C airspace, squawk VFR, frequency change approved, good day" rather than continuing to provide radar service onward towards your destination. However, unless your requested altitude is below the floor of the 10-ring (usually 1200 AGL) so you leave the C-space without entering the TRACON-controlled portion, you are going to be handed to Departure at least for five miles or so after you leave the Tower-controlled portion of the C-space (normally out to 5 miles and up to 2000 or 2500 AGL).
 
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Just say no. :dunno:

As the tower hands you off to departure they will terminate radar service when you leave their coverage area. They will have you squawk VFR and advise on a frequency change. You can cancel flight following in flight also, just tell them you want to cancel.
 
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You can decline flight following after you leave the C-space, but you have no choice about accepting ATC service from takeoff to the C-space boundary. If you're asked by Clearance Delivery if you want flight following, what they're really asking as whether or not you want continued service beyond that boundary. So, if you say "no", then when you reach the boundary, they'll say something like "Cessna 123, you are leaving the Class C airspace, squawk VFR, frequency change approved, good day" rather than continuing to provide radar service onward towards your destination.

That answers the question perfectly, thanks. We were going to an airport just outside the boundary, and ground (CD was closed) asked if we wanted FF. It seems as though there would have been no practical difference between accepting or declining in this case. I guess that's why I was confused why they asked.
 
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I guess that's why I was confused why they asked.

I believe it also has to do with the squawk they give you. As I understand it, the tower has squawks that they will use for airplanes that are just within their airspace and a different "batch" of squawk codes that would be able to be handed off as you depart and follow through the ATC system.
 
I believe it also has to do with the squawk they give you. As I understand it, the tower has squawks that they will use for airplanes that are just within their airspace and a different "batch" of squawk codes that would be able to be handed off as you depart and follow through the ATC system.
Having received changes of squawk code changes both VFR and IFR it's one of those things I've always just accepted as an ATC process without carrying much about the reason.
 
I've had a Class C tower tell me, "no traffic observed between you and the airport, squawk VFR, frequency change approved" after turning crosswind to go to an airport 11 miles away. I was well within the Class C area. They technically don't have to keep good 2 way with you if you are departing the area.

Even if I don't want flight following they usually give me a squawk.
 
At KDAY, when i decline FF, the tower just has me stay with him instead of switching to approach. And thet drop me off under the C shelf,
 
No requirement to comply with Class C FF/squawks. Establish two way Comms, do what you gotta do. You do not have to be cleared into Class C.
 
No requirement to comply with Class C FF/squawks. Establish two way Comms, do what you gotta do. You do not have to be cleared into Class C.
Not exactly true. If they instruct you to squawk and call departure, you have no choice but to do as instructed. Ref: 14 CFR 91.123.
 
At our local Class C, which requires VFR aircraft to call clearance delivery first, I ask clearance for a "____ local" if I'm just going to the practice area or just simply don't want flight following, and a "____ departure to XXX airport" if I want flight following. I don't have to use the words "flight following," it just happens.

I get a squawk in either case. The only time I don't get a squawk is for closed traffic in the pattern.

If I ask for a "local," clearance usually gives me tower's frequency and tower has me squawk 1200 as I'm leaving the surface cylinder, but sometimes clearance gives me the TRACON's frequency ("departure"), tower transfers me to that frequency as I leave the cylinder, and then departure soon has me squawking 1200.

I assume the latter occurs when my direction of departure has me going where there's some traffic to worry about in the 10-mile shelf.
 
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No requirement to comply with Class C FF/squawks. Establish two way Comms, do what you gotta do. You do not have to be cleared into Class C.

You're looking at it from a basic Part 91 requirement. The controller has their own requirements for assigning you a discrete code in the terminal area or handing you off to an adjacent sector / facility.
 
I believe it also has to do with the squawk they give you. As I understand it, the tower has squawks that they will use for airplanes that are just within their airspace and a different "batch" of squawk codes that would be able to be handed off as you depart and follow through the ATC system.

Slight hijack: That makes me think of my flight last weekend up to Mass. I had FF all the way. A couple of times ATC would say "77R reset transponder, squawk 1234."

All I did in response is switch to the new code w/o saying a word. Did I do it right or were they expecting anything different?
 
Slight hijack: That makes me think of my flight last weekend up to Mass. I had FF all the way. A couple of times ATC would say "77R reset transponder, squawk 1234."

All I did in response is switch to the new code w/o saying a word. Did I do it right or were they expecting anything different?

The controller is expecting an acknowledgement of the instruction but I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem for a squawk. Once they see your code change it's obvious that you received the instruction. Personally I give at least a roger or wilco so that the controller doesn't repeat the code assignment.
 
All I did in response is switch to the new code w/o saying a word. Did I do it right or were they expecting anything different?

Did he say anything to you?
 
By the way, I was flying with a pilot experienced with departing from inside Class C airspace. On his initial call-up to Clearance Delivery, he said "negative radar" to indicate he did not want to have Flight Following after departing the airspace.
 
Not exactly true. If they instruct you to squawk and call departure, you have no choice but to do as instructed. Ref: 14 CFR 91.123.

I see your point, but if I'm not required to be cleared or obtain a clearance in Class C per the regs, I can simple decline the offered services and be perfectly legal as long as the two way communications are maintained, que no?

Or in other words, if I am offered the squawk am I legally required to take it?

For what it's worth, I always pick up FF and unless I'm hopping from here to there real quick. I learned smooshed between two class Bs and a Naval air station so radar services kept your ass outa hot water.:yes: I'm a big fan of services.
 
Or in other words, if I am offered the squawk am I legally required to take it?

91.215 (c) Transponder-on operation. While in the airspace as specified in paragraph (b) of this section or in all controlled airspace, each person operating an aircraft equipped with an operable ATC transponder maintained in accordance with §91.413 of this part shall operate the transponder, including Mode C equipment if installed, and shall reply on the appropriate code or as assigned by ATC.
 
Seems like the FARs crisscross each other invalidating one or the other.
 
Seems like the FARs crisscross each other invalidating one or the other.

No. You're assuming that squawk = flight following. That's not true.

If it's real busy in your Class C VFR departure, you'll be given a squawk code, but no traffic advisories. Probably an instruction to follow XXX heading out of Class C and/or an altitude restriction and then a "squawk VFR resume own navigation" when clear.

IFR traffic gets the priority. Plus keeping you clear of IFR traffic. Other VFR traffic will be your responsibility.
 
Even in a class B you can typically get a local exit if you really want. Back before the SFRA Dulles tower would clear you "at or below 1500 rwy heading) and you'd blow out the bottom layer of the inverse wedding cake and be on your own without ever ending up on departure.
 
I see your point, but if I'm not required to be cleared or obtain a clearance in Class C per the regs, I can simple decline the offered services and be perfectly legal as long as the two way communications are maintained, que no?
On the way out, no -- you're not going to hear "cleared for takeoff" if you don't accept the departure instructions from ground. On the way in, sort of -- even if two-way comm is establish, you cannot disregard any instructions they give you. The only thing that "two-way comm" business is good for is if you call them inbound when approaching the C-space, and they say "Cessna 123, stand by," you can continue inbound, as opposed to Class B airspace where establishment of two-way comm with "Cessna 123, stand by" is not sufficient for entry approval.

OTOH, if they say "Cessna 123 remain clear of the Class C airspace", you have received an ATC instruction which must be obeyed, and you must remain outside even though two-way comm is established. Likewise, if they say, "Cessna 123, squawk 4567, radar contact, fly heading 180 for sequencing, maintain at or below 2500", you must obey those instructions.

Or in other words, if I am offered the squawk am I legally required to take it?
You're not "offered" the squawk code; you are instructed to squawk it, and any time you're in controlled airspace and communicating with ATC, you are obligated by 14 CFR 91.123 to comply with any instructions they give you, even if you're operating under VFR.
 
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Seems like the FARs crisscross each other invalidating one or the other.
Not really -- see my post above. They all fit together like a big jigsaw puzzle. You have to look at the whole picture, not one individual piece in isolation. You cannot use one reg intended for one purpose to try to make an end run around another reg intended for something else
 
Did he say anything to you?
No, neither time. I've read elsewhere there's no reason to tie up the freq acknowledging a squawk code, just set it. They will see. Or is that only in conjunction with an instruction to Ident?

The more I thought about it last night, the more I thought, reset transponder means 'change' as opposed to recycle, which means 'turn off and back on.' So although the terminology made me wonder at first, it makes perfect sense now (assuming I'm correct).
 
No, neither time. I've read elsewhere there's no reason to tie up the freq acknowledging a squawk code, just set it. They will see. Or is that only in conjunction with an instruction to Ident?

The more I thought about it last night, the more I thought, reset transponder means 'change' as opposed to recycle, which means 'turn off and back on.' So although the terminology made me wonder at first, it makes perfect sense now (assuming I'm correct).

Then you're all good. I usually don't readback the code when they tell me to change it or to ident cause as you said, they will see the change. Sometimes if they aren't picking up your mode C they may tell you to recycle/reset which would mean to turn it off and back on. If they include a code, just means to plug in the new code.
 
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