Dear renters in my FBO, please stop breaking stuff

M

Meanee

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
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521
Location
Brooklyn, NY
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Display name:
Meanee
Fleet consists of
2x c150
1x c152
2x c172
1x Diamond DA40
3x twins
1x SportStar
1x Saratoga

1 172 lost a wheel on takeoff, ended up in a ditch. Down for 3-4 months and still ongoing repair
1 172 constantly being flown by owner (backleased) and getting it on a weekend is impossible.
Diamond had a prop strike few weeks ago. Estimated downtime 2-3 months
c15x are constantly used for training
Nobody likes the SportStar
Twins require 750TT, 50 twin, 10 type before being able to rent it
Saratoga requires 10 hours with CFI and $185/hour plus CFI for 10 hours is pricey.

So yea. I am grounded.

ARGHHHH
 
These things seem to come in waves.

And not just due to breakage. This week, all the complex trainers in the club (172RG, 177RG and TR182) are in annual. It's the last week in October. Gotta get every last microsecond out of that annual.
 
Meanee said:
It's a great idea. I am only concerned about not being able to carry more than 1 person with me.
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But you were ok with 152 :dunno:

Seriously though, I rent from 3 FBOs. Keeping the currency is unpleasant, but sometimes I can maneuver around availability that way.
 
I was ok with 152 when I did my solo hours. I am not a small guy, so stuffing someone else in a C152 is a challenge.

FBO's currency requirements are at least 1 flight in 90 days on any FBO's aircraft. But I feel that because I am maintaining currency in a 152, I don't think it would be a great idea to hop right into Diamond, which I haven't flown last 3 months (by the time it comes out of maintenance)
 
Too bad the Sportstar doesn't work for you. Low and slow, it's the most fun of the bunch. Given that it burns about 3 gallons an hour in the pattern and puttering around sightseeing and it's not getting used, I'd think you could get a great deal on hours.
 
I may check out SportStar, but most CFIs hate it. And only 2-3 people are doing primary training in it, most prefer C150. It's inexpensive, however, at $100/hour
 
I took a demo flight in a Sportstar and I'd be all over that for 1 or 2 person flying. It was quite responsive. There are none for rent anywhere close to me.

John
 
Meanee said:
Twins require 750TT, 50 twin, 10 type before being able to rent it
Saratoga requires 10 hours with CFI and $185/hour plus CFI for 10 hours is pricey.
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Assuming that is a wet rate, $185/hour for the Saratoga sounds like a good deal to me. I wish there was a 6 seat aircraft near me that rented for that much.

If you think that is pricey, the twins are going to be even worse, so the minimums don't really matter. I found a wide variation on twin minimums, even among FBOs at the same airport that are supposedly competing with each other. At Manassas airport, there are two FBOs that rent twins. One wanted something like 100 hours multi and 25 in type. The other wanted me to do a check out with there chief flight instructor. Guess which one got my business. Even now that I meet most insurance minimums, I still spend my money at the FBO that was willing to work with me when I had very few multi hours. I wish more aviation companies realized that treating your customers well results in customer loyalty.

Ryan
 
Meanee said:
I may check out SportStar, but most CFIs hate it. And only 2-3 people are doing primary training in it, most prefer C150. It's inexpensive, however, at $100/hour
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I get the club's Arrow for a couple bucks an hour more than that. The more I see these rates the more I like our club. :D
 
Meanee said:
Fleet consists of
2x c150
1x c152
2x c172
1x Diamond DA40
3x twins
1x SportStar
1x Saratoga

1 172 lost a wheel on takeoff, ended up in a ditch. Down for 3-4 months and still ongoing repair
1 172 constantly being flown by owner (backleased) and getting it on a weekend is impossible.
Diamond had a prop strike few weeks ago. Estimated downtime 2-3 months
c15x are constantly used for training
Nobody likes the SportStar
Twins require 750TT, 50 twin, 10 type before being able to rent it
Saratoga requires 10 hours with CFI and $185/hour plus CFI for 10 hours is pricey.

So yea. I am grounded.

ARGHHHH
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And this is not a very uncommon entity.
And some wonder why people quit flying?

.
 
I would put around in the Sportstar. How much per hour? So what, you don't get to go anywhere fast. It is similar to the Piper Sport I am learning in. If it is similar to the Piper Sport, they do handle well. They do get bounced around a little more. You get a great view, and a lot of fun.It has to be a lower cost to rent.
 
The Saratoga rate is wet. I wish I would have more cash laying around to do 10 hours in it. My usual CFI loves that plane. And it's somewhat underused in the FBO. Seems that anything that requires certain minimums is always underused. For example, Diamond and SportStar require 3 hour glass time. And those are underused.
 
Meanee said:
The Saratoga rate is wet. I wish I would have more cash laying around to do 10 hours in it. My usual CFI loves that plane. And it's somewhat underused in the FBO. Seems that anything that requires certain minimums is always underused. For example, Diamond and SportStar require 3 hour glass time. And those are underused.
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I take it you have your Private? And, the Sportstar is an LSA. That would be one reason you need the hours. Need to get a checkout in a LSA. My opinion is spend the extra $500 for the instructor, and get the checkout.
 
MDeitch1976 said:
I take it you have your Private? And, the Sportstar is an LSA. That would be one reason you need the hours. Need to get a checkout in a LSA. My opinion is spend the extra $500 for the instructor, and get the checkout.
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Not quite sure what do you mean here. I have a private, so that should automatically include LSA. I already have over 6 hours in glass (FBO requires 3 hours glass to rent Diamond and Sportstar). 1 hour checkout should be enough.
 
The opposite happened to me. I wanted to fly with a CFI at night, three landings, the plane lights didn't work, I offered to take the other plane I fly regularly, the owner said take the G1000!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
The opposite happened to me. I wanted to fly with a CFI at night, three landings, the plane lights didn't work, I offered to take the other plane I fly regularly, the owner said take the G1000!
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Grrrr

I am starting to miss the G1000
 
where are all the people who like to preach about owning not making sense because renting is so much cheaper ?
 
JHW said:
where are all the people who like to preach about owning not making sense because renting is so much cheaper ?
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OK fine.

Renting the 150 two times a month for a one hour flight:

$80 times two

Owning a plane (even if it were free):

Insurance - money every month
Tie Down / Hangar - money every month
Flights - buy gas and oil
Annual maintenance (or more than once a year) - costs money

If I don't fly for a month as a renter I pay zero. If I don't fly for a month as an owner I pay all the above costs. Once I am done paying off my PPL and not living paycheck to paycheck I'll let you know but for now I'm a renter for life.
 
MDeitch1976 said:
I take it you have your Private? And, the Sportstar is an LSA. That would be one reason you need the hours. Need to get a checkout in a LSA. My opinion is spend the extra $500 for the instructor, and get the checkout.
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Huh? I am a commercial pilot and my checkout in a Remos was a standard 1.4 checkout. There is nothing special about an LSA other than the fact that a sport pilot can fly one.
 
Meanee said:
Not quite sure what do you mean here. I have a private, so that should automatically include LSA. I already have over 6 hours in glass (FBO requires 3 hours glass to rent Diamond and Sportstar). 1 hour checkout should be enough.
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Don't confuse the FAA license that you have, with someone actually allowing you to fly their plane. They have insurance requirements (and their assetts) to think about.
 
ja_user said:
Don't confuse the FAA license that you have, with someone actually allowing you to fly their plane. They have insurance requirements (and their assetts) to think about.
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I am not confusing it. My FBO requires 3 hours glass total to rent anything with glass panel. And for some bizarre reason, hours in Sportstar's Dynon PFD and Garmin GPSMap 396 will count towards G1000 time. I satisfied glass requirements, just need standard checkout that takes about an hour.
 
Meanee said:
I am not confusing it. My FBO requires 3 hours glass total to rent anything with glass panel. And for some bizarre reason, hours in Sportstar's Dynon PFD and Garmin GPSMap 396 will count towards G1000 time. I satisfied glass requirements, just need standard checkout that takes about an hour.
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Some insurance companies even require a medical to fly an LSA that they insure. :)
 
GCA319 said:
Huh? I am a commercial pilot and my checkout in a Remos was a standard 1.4 checkout. There is nothing special about an LSA other than the fact that a sport pilot can fly one.
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I did not know that a normal checkout was required to move to an LSA.
 
MDeitch1976 said:
I did not know that a normal checkout was required to move to an LSA.
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In reality, most FBOs would ask for a checkout to let you rent a different type.

My DA40 checkout included following
- Stalls
- Slow flight
- Steep turns
- Short field landing
- Emergency procedures

Typically, you would want to do this in every new plane that you are planning to fly.
 
Meanee said:
In reality, most FBOs would ask for a checkout to let you rent a different type.

My DA40 checkout included following
- Stalls
- Slow flight
- Steep turns
- Short field landing
- Emergency procedures

Typically, you would want to do this in every new plane that you are planning to fly.
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Think i'm getting off the OP's topic but wanted to say my checkout in the cessna 162 skycatcher was 3 hours, as required by the fbo/insurance, included the list above in the first lesson. The second checkout lesson emphasized the Garmin 300 PFD and MFD (you could get a degree in all-things-garmin; there is so much that can be done with the G300). And the third and final lesson . . . was really flying around and putting it together.

Prior to the 3-hour LSA checkout I had been checked out to fly steam-guage 172Ns.

(ironically, 2 days after i was checked out in the skycatcher, the plane has been down in maintenance to address an AD (something related to reinforcing the wing struts - dont know for sure, but I'll find out whenevr it comes out of surgery).
 
Kind of what my Diamond checkout was. They wanted 3 hours glass time. First hour we got checkout done, other 2 hours was just flying around. I did one instrument approach with CFI just to see how it's done, and did a small cross country while futzing around with G1000. But checkout in itself should not be 3 hours.
 
iWantWings said:
Think i'm getting off the OP's topic but wanted to say my checkout in the cessna 162 skycatcher was 3 hours, as required by the fbo/insurance, included the list above in the first lesson. The second checkout lesson emphasized the Garmin 300 PFD and MFD (you could get a degree in all-things-garmin; there is so much that can be done with the G300). And the third and final lesson . . . was really flying around and putting it together.

Prior to the 3-hour LSA checkout I had been checked out to fly steam-guage 172Ns.

(ironically, 2 days after i was checked out in the skycatcher, the plane has been down in maintenance to address an AD (something related to reinforcing the wing struts - dont know for sure, but I'll find out whenevr it comes out of surgery).
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3 hours seems like alot. Must be the cost of insuring such an expensive airplane.
 
GCA319 said:
3 hours seems like alot. Must be the cost of insuring such an expensive airplane.
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I don't think that's unreasonable. It's very pitch sensitive coming from 172s and 152s. Also, power-on stall recovery is different. Anecdotally, I've heard people around here needing about 3 flights to get checked out in the SkyCatcher and we don't seem to have a fixed hour requirement -- just an instructor giving you the OK. It took me 2 flights and glass was new to me too. I've got 40 hours in it now and LOVE IT. Ours is down for the SB/AD (I don't know which it is) as well. They said they found 3/8" cracks with the inspection, so I'm happy they're addressing it.
 
madtrader said:
I don't think that's unreasonable. It's very pitch sensitive coming from 172s and 152s. Also, power-on stall recovery is different. Anecdotally, I've heard people around here needing about 3 flights to get checked out in the SkyCatcher and we don't seem to have a fixed hour requirement -- just an instructor giving you the OK. It took me 2 flights and glass was new to me too. I've got 40 hours in it now and LOVE IT. Ours is down for the SB/AD (I don't know which it is) as well. They said they found 3/8" cracks with the inspection, so I'm happy they're addressing it.
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How so? I've never flown a skycatcher, but I have some time in a Remos and while it tends to drop a wing if you're not coordinated, the recovery is the same as it is in every other airplane.
 
Meanee said:
So yea. I am grounded.

ARGHHHH
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What you are describing is precisely what scored me my first plane.

We had FINALLY lined up the time off work, the weather, and the grandma to watch the kids -- and someone broke our rental plane. Again.

Standing at the FBO counter, exasperated, Mary turned to me and snapped "Why don't you buy a plane?"

That was 14 years and three planes ago... :D

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
Propstrike is the only booboo. The rest is maintenance or policy. Buy something so you wzit months and pay thousands for repairs.:hairraise:
 
Meanee said:
Maybe join a club. Partnership is too much $$$ that I do not have.
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Find a club where people give a crap about the airplanes and you'll probably find a club with a higher buy-in than some.

Skin in the game gets people's attention. It's that or a club with a crusty leadership who will toss people out and I mean, out, if they abuse the aircraft or leave them a mess after flying them.
 
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