Dead Battery : Best Options?

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tpowers

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tpowers
Okay so this is the first time I've experienced a dead battery in my Cessna 150L. It has been sitting for a month at the airport because the airport was closed for runway resurfacing. Yesterday I went to fly it and the battery just didn't have enough juice to power the starter. I know, I should have gone out there and ran it up at least once during June, but I didn't :(

Anyway I got a jump from the linemen and took a short 10 minute flight to a neighboring airport where I will remain based while the rest of the construction at my home base is completed (They opened up the runway for a few days so basically this weekend was my only window of opportunity).

All-in-all the battery probably had about 20 minutes of charge time between the run-up, the linemen trying to figure out how to put the battery box cap back on, the taxi, and the flight.

After reaching my destination I tried restarting to see if the battery had been sufficiently charged enough (the volt meter returned to 0 after only a few minutes, initially). It did crank a few times but not enough to get it going.

I've had similar issues with car batteries, even with a healthy generator/alternator if the battery is allowed to completely run dry it "feels as if" cells are just dead and it will never return to it's original power potential. I'm not a battery expert so I don't know if that's what is going on all I can say is that is how batteries seem to behave (in my experience)

So, I'm probably looking at a battery replacement. But maybe it just needs more acid or maybe I should have charged it longer.

As far as a replacement my initial Googling brought up this for $200.

So here are my questions for those of you who are more knowledgeable in this area:
1) It is a 12 volt battery so it should be okay to jump it to a car (that's essentially what the linemen did). Could I attempt to charge the battery using a running car and a pair of jumper cables (not to jump the plane, start the plane, and charge using the plane's alternator but rather keep the plane off and charge using the car). If so, would I want to have the battery switch off or on during this charging?

2) Since it is a 12 volt battery, why is it that I can't just replace it with a run-of-the-mill car battery?

3) Could the existing battery be made to work properly again by adding acid, if so how do I go about doing that (I've never done that before) and how can I be sure I buy the right stuff?

4) Is there another option I'm overlooking?

Thank you in advance :)
 
I'll just quickly handle a few questions.

NEVER add acid to a battery once in service. If the fluid is low, distilled water is all that should be used to bring the electrolyte Level back up.

You may not use a car battery.

Best practice is to remove the battery from the plane for charging. If you don't own a charger a decent one should be around $50. Check the specific gravity after charging - those testers are cheap - and that will tell you if the battery is toast.
 
I finally replaced my Gil batteries with a pair of Concorde batteries, haven't looked back. Check out the Concorde RG 25XC for your Cessna 150 to make sure it's the correct choice. Can you hook up a battery maintainer like the products from battery minder?

I am going to be moving my plane for taxiway reconstruction for 56 days here at KOXB. Not happy about moving my plane out of its hangar and into the salt air environment. I have locked up a temp tie down a bit more inland to hold me over. it's a PITA to deal with but not much of a choice if I want to fly. I hope you get back to the home airport and back to normal ASAP.
 
Verify which battery you have, that will tell us if it is the serviceable type or maintenance-free type. The manuals for these batteries should be easily found on Google for servicing instructions if there is any. Be careful! Batteries can release hydrogen and are a fire/explosion hazard when messing with them. Read the manual carefully.

Try and track down its age by looking in the airframe logbooks.

Verify what the charging voltage is using volt meter with the airplane running, I usually just insert the probes into the cigar lighter if it works. Voltage should be arounds 13.7 to 14.2 volts. Do you have an alternator or generator? Generators don't typically charge well at low engine RPM so something to keep in mind when testing.

You may simply need to check the electrolyte levels in the battery and top charge it. It also may be time to replace it.
 
tpowers said:
Okay so this is the first time I've experienced a dead battery in my Cessna 150L. It has been sitting for a month at the airport because the airport was closed for runway resurfacing. Yesterday I went to fly it and the battery just didn't have enough juice to power the starter. I know, I should have gone out there and ran it up at least once during June, but I didn't :(

Anyway I got a jump from the linemen and took a short 10 minute flight to a neighboring airport where I will remain based while the rest of the construction at my home base is completed (They opened up the runway for a few days so basically this weekend was my only window of opportunity).

All-in-all the battery probably had about 20 minutes of charge time between the run-up, the linemen trying to figure out how to put the battery box cap back on, the taxi, and the flight.

After reaching my destination I tried restarting to see if the battery had been sufficiently charged enough (the volt meter returned to 0 after only a few minutes, initially). It did crank a few times but not enough to get it going.

I've had similar issues with car batteries, even with a healthy generator/alternator if the battery is allowed to completely run dry it "feels as if" cells are just dead and it will never return to it's original power potential. I'm not a battery expert so I don't know if that's what is going on all I can say is that is how batteries seem to behave (in my experience)

So, I'm probably looking at a battery replacement. But maybe it just needs more acid or maybe I should have charged it longer.

As far as a replacement my initial Googling brought up this for $200.

So here are my questions for those of you who are more knowledgeable in this area:
1) It is a 12 volt battery so it should be okay to jump it to a car (that's essentially what the linemen did). Could I attempt to charge the battery using a running car and a pair of jumper cables (not to jump the plane, start the plane, and charge using the plane's alternator but rather keep the plane off and charge using the car). If so, would I want to have the battery switch off or on during this charging?

2) Since it is a 12 volt battery, why is it that I can't just replace it with a run-of-the-mill car battery?

3) Could the existing battery be made to work properly again by adding acid, if so how do I go about doing that (I've never done that before) and how can I be sure I buy the right stuff?

4) Is there another option I'm overlooking?

Thank you in advance :)
Click to expand...

You can waste your time add water and charging your current battery, but if it will not hold a charge for 30 days it needs replaced unless you being stranded when you stop at another airport.

The reason you cannot replace the battery with a car battery is a car battery is not an approved part for your plane. If you installed a car battery, your plane would be unairworthy and illegal to fly.
 
Great suggestions, I'll try to get more info about the battery when I get back to the airport. I agree that since it died after only 30 days of inactivity it's probably at the end of its life anyway. I think replacing the acid may do it but more research is needed.
 
bnt83 said:
Verify which battery you have, that will tell us if it is the serviceable type or maintenance-free type. The manuals for these batteries should be easily found on Google for servicing instructions if there is any. Be careful! Batteries can release hydrogen and are a fire/explosion hazard when messing with them. Read the manual carefully.

Try and track down its age by looking in the airframe logbooks.

Verify what the charging voltage is using volt meter with the airplane running, I usually just insert the probes into the cigar lighter if it works. Voltage should be arounds 13.7 to 14.2 volts. Do you have an alternator or generator? Generators don't typically charge well at low engine RPM so something to keep in mind when testing.

You may simply need to check the electrolyte levels in the battery and top charge it. It also may be time to replace it.
Click to expand...
Good advise from bnt83. If you do change the battery consider the Concord, I replaced my Gill with one and it performed well all winter. I park outside in Juneau, AK.
 
tpowers said:
Great suggestions, I'll try to get more info about the battery when I get back to the airport. I agree that since it died after only 30 days of inactivity it's probably at the end of its life anyway. I think replacing the acid may do it but more research is needed.
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There is no adic replacing. All we do is add distiled water basically because the water evaporates and needs to be added regularly.

I've had good luck with the concorde sealed maintenance-free batteries.

But the charging system should be checked and verified to ensure long battery life. Also should be checked for parasitic loads that are draining the battery when the airplane is sitting.
 
FastEddieB said:
I'll just quickly handle a few questions.

NEVER add acid to a battery once in service. If the fluid is low, distilled water is all that should be used to bring the electrolyte Level back up.

You may not use a car battery.

Best practice is to remove the battery from the plane for charging. If you don't own a charger a decent one should be around $50. Check the specific gravity after charging - those testers are cheap - and that will tell you if the battery is toast.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I am assuming you have a conventional, non-sealed lead-acid battery.

Never add acid after the initial fill, only distilled water.

Pull it out of the airplane and see if you can borrow a battery charger with a de-sulfation cycle. There is no assurance the battery can be restored if it is badly sulfated, but it's your best bet now. I wouldn't spend money on a new battery before trying this first. I prefer to charge my battery out of the plane because it will release corrosive fumes which may be unhelpful to the airframe.

If you don't fly your plane for extended periods consider investing in a good trickle charger/maintainer. Running up the engine or short flights will not keep a sufficient charge on a battery to prevent sulfation and shortened battery life, especially through a northern winter.

No you can't use an automotive battery in a plane. The FAA says it will result in an immediate fiery crash of immense proportions, which will lead to a dedicated accident investigation thread on PoA, and the dissection of every aspect of your piloting technique since your first solo. That last item alone should be reason enough to stay with an overpriced aviation battery and take good care of the one you already have. ;)
 
Batteries may seem expensive but considering their importance they're really not that bad. I have a 3 year old gill that is performing ok on my Saratoga. It does much better since replacing the cables with the bogert kit.

If it sits for a few weeks (recent avionics shop visit) it's pretty sluggish but will start.

Call me crazy but I just ordered a brand new concord to replace the Gill. I take my family places in this plane. I just don't see the point in being stranded. The battery is pretty dang important.
 
Another reason to remove the battery from the plane:

7676611864_8fc801c67f.jpg


Yes, it's rare.

Yes, most will charge batteries in the plane and never have a problem - I have countless times.

But The Most Conservative Action? Follow most manufacturer's recommendations and charge it on the bench, not in the plane.
 
bnt83 said:
...Also should be checked for parasitic loads that are draining the battery when the airplane is sitting.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

I used to think the master isolated the battery completely. And on most airplane's it probably does.
But I discovered, the hard way when a mechanical switch failed, that on my Aztec the baggage compartment lights do not require the master to be on, and will happily drain the battery sitting in the hangar.
 
arkvet said:
Batteries may seem expensive but considering their importance they're really not that bad. I have a 3 year old gill that is performing ok on my Saratoga. It does much better since replacing the cables with the bogert kit.

If it sits for a few weeks (recent avionics shop visit) it's pretty sluggish but will start.

Call me crazy but I just ordered a brand new concord to replace the Gill. I take my family places in this plane. I just don't see the point in being stranded. The battery is pretty dang important.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about doing the same as you.

The 24 volt battery in my plane is ridiculously expensive. I try to take good care of them, and the plane operates from a heated hangar in winter, but I've never gotten much more than 4 years maximum out of a Gill lead-acid battery.

I keep hearing glowing testimonials about the Concorde gel cell batteries, but is anybody getting significantly longer life than 4 years out of them?
 
GRG55 said:
I keep hearing glowing testimonials about the Concorde gel cell batteries, but is anybody getting significantly longer life than 4 years out of them?
Click to expand...

Yes. 5 years right now. Have heard of 7 years from other folks, I think that was Doc C.
 
GRG55 said:
I keep hearing glowing testimonials about the Concorde gel cell batteries, but is anybody getting significantly longer life than 4 years out of them?
Click to expand...

I got about 9 years out of an RG-35AXC (IIRC), a friend with the same make & model airplane did too. Both airplanes have the battery located in the tailcone away from the engine heat. Niether were ever officially capacity tested durring thier service life. I never kept a charger on mine but the friend did on his. They both quit this year. We both replaced them with new ones of the same p/n crossing our fingers they hold like the old ones did.
 
GRG55 said:
I try to take good care of them, and the plane operates from a heated hangar in winter, but I've never gotten much more than 4 years maximum out of a Gill lead-acid battery.
Click to expand...
The Concorde battery I installed (RG-35AXC) is a sealed lead acid battery. I was told the best charger is the battery minder.
 
Mix 1/2 teaspoon with baking soda and 8 oz water and pour that solution over the base where the battery sits. This will nuetralize the acid. DON'T get any in the battery of course! This is true if you have non-maintenance free batteries with caps. Sealed batteries shouldnt need this. Mine doesnt. My sealed battery sits on wood plate and is spotless. Wash the battery itself with water.

Best to replace the battery with the manufacturer recommended model. If you can upgrade to a maintenance free battery that is a better battery. No acid spills. Make sure the fit is right on the cables and the physical fit is perfect. Need a battery that is right for the plane. Accept no compromises! Batteries that fail and come loose cause trouble!
 
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If you don't have AC power where you are, the little Harbor Freight 1.5 watt (100 mA) charger does a magnificent job when left inside the windshield on the top of the instrument panel. It charges during the day and lets the battery rest at night. You can tap into the clock bus (or whatever your aircraft calls the keep-alive circuit) that takes power directly off the battery with a small fuse/breaker and does not go through the master switch to hook the charger into.

I smell a Kitplanes column coming out of this ...

Jim
 
Great comments, thanks all for responding. I certainly don't want to do anything unsafe or illegal in the name of saving a few bucks.

Currently the maintenance shop at the local FBO has been very helpful and threw my battery on their charger. It remains to be seen if it'll hold a charge. If I do end up buying a new battery it looks like (from all of your comments as well as other web surfing I've been doing) that the concord batteries are a good option so I'll find the one that's the appropriate replacement for my current one.

Thanks again.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Mix 1/2 teaspoon with baking soda and 8 oz water and pour that solution over the base where the battery sits. This will neutralize the acid. DON'T get any in the battery of course! This is true if you have non-maintenance free batteries with caps. Sealed batteries shouldn't need this. Mine doesn't. My sealed battery sits on wood plate and is spotless. Wash the battery itself with water.
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I clean the cables, battery case, and the surrounding area with a mixture of water and household ammonia. Baking soda leaves a gritty residue that's difficult to completely remove, while the ammonia solution dilutes with water, rinses away easily, and leaves no residual chemical reaction.
 
3393RP said:
I clean the cables, battery case, and the surrounding area with a mixture of water and household ammonia. Baking soda leaves a gritty residue that's difficult to completely remove, while the ammonia solution dilutes with water, rinses away easily, and leaves no residual chemical reaction.
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Really bad idea with aluminum.
 
Batteries last a lot longer if they are maintained. Two things to do: replenish distilled water about 2X per year, and a trickle charger about 1X per month (or more often, or even constantly) especially if the plane is idle.
 
Clark1961 said:
Really bad idea with aluminum.
Click to expand...

What problems do you anticipate by using a half cup of household ammonia cleaner diluted in a couple gallons of water, which is then rinsed thoroughly?

That's a 2% solution, and the household ammonia is only a 5-10% concentration of ammonium hydroxide. That's pretty weak.

I'm aware a scrap of aluminum placed in undiluted household ammonia will reduce into a gelatinous mass. It will do the same if immersed in battery electrolyte solution.

In the past I have used ammonia at the concentration I mentioned above and it does not impart discoloration on the aluminum.

The error in my original post was not specifying the proper dilution to avoid discoloration and not emphasizing a thorough rinsing is required, but that applies to baking soda as well.
 
It is definitely new battery time. It shouldn't have gone dead in a month of inactivity, unless there's some unknown draw even with the master off? Did the alternator show a good charge rate when you got it started?
 
George Mohr said:
It is definitely new battery time. It shouldn't have gone dead in a month of inactivity, unless there's some unknown draw even with the master off? Did the alternator show a good charge rate when you got it started?
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It can easily go dead in a month if the prior activity was a few short flights with habitually long periods in between.
 
GRG55 said:
It can easily go dead in a month if the prior activity was a few short flights with habitually long periods in between.
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That's fair, but I didn't get the sense that the airplane is a sitter. Just that there was a month of inactivity due to a closed airport. Any fully charged battery should last well over a month without going so dead. Either way, it's new battery time.
 
Heat kills batteries. If you had a borderline weak battery heat and time will expose the weakness.
 
You don't need no stinkin' battry...you could always just prop the thing. I have propped a few 150s and 172s the angle of the prop stinks on a nose wheel so you need to be a little more careful. Of course if you want to be lazy and sit in the seat and push a button or turn a key I get that. :)
 
GRG55 said:
:thumbsup:

I used to think the master isolated the battery completely. And on most airplane's it probably does.
But I discovered, the hard way when a mechanical switch failed, that on my Aztec the baggage compartment lights do not require the master to be on, and will happily drain the battery sitting in the hangar.
Click to expand...

The clock is never isolated from the battery via the Master. So nope, in almost every aircraft there's at least one device that doesn't pass through the master switch.

(And those old stupid mechanical clocks do draw enough current, even though it's low, to kill a battery, eventually...)
 
3393RP said:
I clean the cables, battery case, and the surrounding area with a mixture of water and household ammonia. Baking soda leaves a gritty residue that's difficult to completely remove, while the ammonia solution dilutes with water, rinses away easily, and leaves no residual chemical reaction.
Click to expand...
Ammonia+Aluminum=Hydrogen gas, add a spark into the mix and .... well...."OH The Humanities" comes to mind.
Oh, and another thing, Less aluminum as well. even without the spark.
 
denverpilot said:
The clock is never isolated from the battery via the Master. So nope, in almost every aircraft there's at least one device that doesn't pass through the master switch.

(And those old stupid mechanical clocks do draw enough current, even though it's low, to kill a battery, eventually...)
Click to expand...
There is absoloutly nothing drawing current when the master is off, in my airplane. Even the old Narco Mk12D doesn't draw anything, as the memory wire has never been connected. The clock is a "stupid mechanical" one, it draws exactly 0 amps ;)
 
I got the Shumacher version of the battery maintainer on my Concorde battery. It's about 25% the cost of he Battery Minder. Keeps it topped up. No problems so far, going on 5 years.

Hand propping isn't an (easy) option with a shower of sparks system.
 
bluerooster said:
There is absoloutly nothing drawing current when the master is off, in my airplane. Even the old Narco Mk12D doesn't draw anything, as the memory wire has never been connected. The clock is a "stupid mechanical" one, it draws exactly 0 amps ;)
Click to expand...

Just don't try to take an Instrument checkride in it! ;) (Clock from ship's power, required.)
 
Stewartb said:
Heat kills batteries. If you had a borderline weak battery heat and time will expose the weakness.
Click to expand...
I disagree.
In my Lance and also sixes and saratogas, battery sits just behind the engine being exposed to heat all the time. Mine is goin for 5th year and many guys I know had it lasted 7+ years
 
If your battery is not too old and charged regularly ( plane flown regularly ) then it should come back to the original shape after slow charging. Good news is warmer temperatures are kinder on dying batteries. If it gets frozen after being drained then its done. Let us know what happens. If you need a new one then as everyone said , concord is the way to go
 
blueskyMD said:
I disagree.
In my Lance and also sixes and saratogas, battery sits just behind the engine being exposed to heat all the time. Mine is goin for 5th year and many guys I know had it lasted 7+ years
Click to expand...

Friends in PHX say they get about four years.

For "heat kills" it has to be quite a bit hotter than most places. But it definitely kills.
 
Typically the water to acid ratio is 80/20, but it can vary. Before going bananas and just adding water to batteries, you need to purchase a battery tester that can measure the water to acid content in each cell. Adding too much water, will damage the battery in the same way adding too much oil to an engine will.

If this battery is old, than little use out of it will end up depleting it even further, making it harder to start and hold ultimately hold a charge. I suggest you invest in a float charger for times when the airplane (battery) will sit idle for extended periods of time. This will help maintain it and keep it on a slow charge at all times.
 
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