DC ADIZ bust by roque Navy UAV "robot"

mikea

mikea

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The day SkyNet became self-aware...

Navy operators lost control of an unmanned aircraft earlier this month and were unable to regain control before the aircraft entered restricted airspace around the U.S. capital.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/08/navy-uav-enters-dc-082510/
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What I want to know if they will subtract this one from the count of "reckless rich pilots" that did ADIZ violations.
 
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I thought the UAVs were supposed to automatically circle back to base if they lost the control connection.

What if doesn't get the self-destruct signal? Even the Space Shuttle has that. :hairraise:

As the Navy says, they're investigating and that may be what they're investigating.
 
I am sure that their was no real danger to anyone in the air or on the ground but let a Cessna 150 stick a wing tip into class B airspace and everyone will be at risk.
 
brien23 said:
I am sure that their was no real danger to anyone in the air or on the ground but let a Cessna 150 stick a wing tip into class B airspace and everyone will be at risk.
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Well that goes without saying as it is intuitively obvious to the most causal observer of security theater.
 
This can't be true... with state-of-the-art technology, nothing can possibly go worng. :crazy:
 
rottydaddy said:
This can't be true... with state-of-the-art technology, nothing can possibly go wrong. :crazy:
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Posted : Thursday Aug 26, 2010 8:11:58 EDT

Navy operators lost control of an unmanned aircraft earlier this month
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They would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for those meddling blabbers!
 
Lost control? Hardly.

The Marines paid off the Navy for the recent statements by Sec. Gates. As the Marines are part of the Navy, there are sympathies there.

Reports were other UAV's were hiding behind the grassy knoll.






:D
 
So who gets spread-eagled on the Tarmac? The "pilot"? The programmer? The E-6 repairman?

-Skip
 
EAA's story on it:
The Navy says “a software issue” caused it to lose contact with one of its MQ-8B Fire Scout UAV helicopters for about 20 minutes during the afternoon of August 2, 2010, allowing the pilot-less drone aircraft to fly itself 23 miles into the restricted airspace surrounding Washington, D.C., according to a story first reported by The New York Times this week. The aircraft, manufactured by Northrop Grumman, measures nearly 24 ft long, 9 ft high and has a gross weight of 3,150 lbs.

According to Capt. Tim Dunigan, Fire Scout program manager, the helicopter was at 1,700 feet AGL 75 minutes into a test flight from its base, Naval Air Station Pax River in Southern Maryland, when operators temporarily lost communications with the unmanned rotary aircraft.
http://www.eaa.org/news/2010/2010-08-26_uav.asp
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http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/miltary-says-runaway-drone-violated-capital-airspace/19610001


Speaking Wednesday at the conference in Denver, Air Force official Gerald Sayer briefed attendees on the Defense Department's plans to have the military fly drones more freely in civilian airspace. "We want to have full access to the National Airspace," he said.

So do I.

He warned, however, that a major accident involving an unmanned aircraft would have major repercussions on the Pentagon's efforts. "That would set us back at least a decade," he said.

Asked about the Fire Scout incident, Sayer said he was unsure of the specific details, but pointed out that it had "corrected itself" and avoided any accident.

"These things happen," he said.

Is that a paraphrase of "**** happens"?
 
It's not like there could be any airplanes flying only 1700 feet AGL in (Horrors, Condoleezza Rice!) uncontrolled airspace , and if they are we need to put a stop to it.!
 
The aircraft, manufactured by Northrop Grumman, measures nearly 24 ft long, 9 ft high and has a gross weight of 3,150 lbs.

Geez, that thing almost 2x as big as my Pitts!
 
I want to know who gets the 180 day rip for this? Where's the uproar from the DC types trying to make hay out of any violation. And why are we hearing about this 3 weeks after the fact?
Were it not for the NY Times, would anyone know?
No F15s were scrambled for this!
 
Skip Miller said:
So who gets spread-eagled on the Tarmac? The "pilot"? The programmer? The E-6 repairman?

-Skip
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More importantly did they evacuate the White House and Capitol buliding in response to the danger (which IMO was higher with a loose cannon UAV than when a 152 blunders in).
 
mikea said:
I thought the UAVs were supposed to automatically circle back to base if they lost the control connection.

What if doesn't get the self-destruct signal? Even the Space Shuttle has that. :hairraise:

As the Navy says, they're investigating and that may be what they're investigating.
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The SHUTTLE has a range safety package?? Or the SRB's that boost it?

I know for Challenger the SRB's were destroyed before they left the range boundaries.. but that was after the loss of the spacecraft.

I would be genuinely surprised that a manned spacecraft would have range safeties on em.
 
Doggtyred said:
The SHUTTLE has a range safety package?? Or the SRB's that boost it?

I know for Challenger the SRB's were destroyed before they left the range boundaries.. but that was after the loss of the spacecraft.

I would be genuinely surprised that a manned spacecraft would have range safeties on em.
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I meant the SRBs.
 
mikea said:
I thought the UAVs were supposed to automatically circle back to base if they lost the control connection.

What if doesn't get the self-destruct signal? Even the Space Shuttle has that. :hairraise:

As the Navy says, they're investigating and that may be what they're investigating.
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Depending on programming, the UAV/UAS will go to a predetermined location and orbit, then return home. Was it a programming error?

Command Destruct over populated areas is not good. If it is flying outside of a safe area, Command Destruct should be initiated before it left. Most CD are the inability of the on board receiver to receive a tone. Turn off the ground transmitter, CD takes effect.
 
BillTIZ said:
Depending on programming, the UAV/UAS will go to a predetermined location and orbit, then return home. Was it a programming error?
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According the the article from the first post...
The cause appears to have been “a software anomaly that allowed the aircraft not to follow its pre-programmed flight procedures,”
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mikea said:
I thought the UAVs were supposed to automatically circle back to base if they lost the control connection.

What if doesn't get the self-destruct signal? Even the Space Shuttle has that. :hairraise:

As the Navy says, they're investigating and that may be what they're investigating.
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It was the security minded folks on the ground shining their green lasers at the cockpit which made the UAV go haywire. I'm pretty sure the UAVs have adapted by now.
 
Richard said:
It was the security minded folks on the ground shining their green lasers at the cockpit which made the UAV go haywire. I'm pretty sure the UAVs have adapted by now.
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Like I said SkyNet became self-aware. Resistance is futile.
 
Doggtyred said:
The SHUTTLE has a range safety package?? Or the SRB's that boost it?

I know for Challenger the SRB's were destroyed before they left the range boundaries.. but that was after the loss of the spacecraft.

I would be genuinely surprised that a manned spacecraft would have range safeties on em.
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The SRB's have the charges...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/nasa/4262479

Of course, if you blow the SRB's before they've separated, they're gonna take the whole vehicle, including the orbiter and crew, down. The ET used to have charges, but as of about 1996 no longer does.
 
And the reason nobody panicked was because they KNEW the aircraft - it wasn't some VFR airplane that nobody was talking to that suddenly headed towards DC. Essentially the drone was IFR, and the SFRA doesn't exist for IFR airplanes.

But let's all speculate that Al-Queda had hacked the software and that the next attack will be from our own drones! Let the rumours begin.
 
TMetzinger said:
And the reason nobody panicked was because they KNEW the aircraft - it wasn't some VFR airplane that nobody was talking to that suddenly headed towards DC. Essentially the drone was IFR, and the SFRA doesn't exist for IFR airplanes.

But let's all speculate that Al-Queda had hacked the software and that the next attack will be from our own drones! Let the rumours begin.
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Just a harmless little UAV with guns and missiles and stuff. And how do they know some unfriendly agency didn't hack into their little toy, leading it astray and leaving no trace. I know a couple high schoolers who could manage that one.
 
steingar said:
Just a harmless little UAV with guns and missiles and stuff. And how do they know some unfriendly agency didn't hack into their little toy, leading it astray and leaving no trace. I know a couple high schoolers who could manage that one.
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Please show the guns and missles on the drone in question. No need to show the "Stuff"... I'm sure the drone had "stuff" on it.

Please send your high schoolers to PAX and have them prove your unfounded assertion.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending UAVs flying in the NAS, nor UAVs flying autonomously, or any of that. I'm only explaining why they didn't hit the panic button in DC when this happened - they knew "who" the aircraft was.
 
Nobody panicked when the Taliban hacked the Predator feeds either, and they have even less equipment and know-how than your averge geek high schooler.
 
The Taliban hacked the RECEPTION of the download data link, not the control uplink. So they had the ability to watch themselves get targeted. Valuable, but not at all the same thing as taking control of a weapons system.
 
Pretty damning. And I doubt you or anyone else knows what was actually aboard that thing. So I bust the ADIZ, er, excuse me, the SFRA with my little Cherokee and every gets their panties in a knot, while a rogue military UAV which could have been carrying live ordinance (up to you to prove it wasn't. Good luck with that one) does the same thing and no one blinks.
 
steingar said:
Pretty damning. And I doubt you or anyone else knows what was actually aboard that thing. So I bust the ADIZ, er, excuse me, the SFRA with my little Cherokee and every gets their panties in a knot, while a rogue military UAV which could have been carrying live ordinance (up to you to prove it wasn't. Good luck with that one) does the same thing and no one blinks.
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Bull**** - you made the allegation about ordnance, you prove it was armed in violation of a bunch of navy regs. (Hint - there are places where they test drone aircraft with live weapons aboard. PAX ain't one of them. They tend to like areas with square miles of unpopulated space).

You know a HELL of a lot about the life sciences, but not diddly or squat about this particular subject. And have you ever been out here in your Cherokee?
 
TMetzinger said:
And the reason nobody panicked was because they KNEW the aircraft - it wasn't some VFR airplane that nobody was talking to that suddenly headed towards DC. Essentially the drone was IFR, and the SFRA doesn't exist for IFR airplanes.

But let's all speculate that Al-Queda had hacked the software and that the next attack will be from our own drones! Let the rumours begin.
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Who is "they"?
 
TMetzinger said:
Bull**** - you made the allegation about ordnance, you prove it was armed in violation of a bunch of navy regs. (Hint - there are places where they test drone aircraft with live weapons aboard. PAX ain't one of them. They tend to like areas with square miles of unpopulated space).

You know a HELL of a lot about the life sciences, but not diddly or squat about this particular subject. And have you ever been out here in your Cherokee?
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Had guns pointed at me.

Again, prove it wasn't armed. Last I checked, the Navy wasn't big on telling us nobodies what it has and has not on its weapons systems, nor can I blame them. I may be wrong about what they put on what where, but I bet you are too, and at the end of the day neither of us knows diddly squat, unless you're directly involved with that particular operation and are at liberty to say so.

I feel loads better with GA aircraft flying around DC that some unmanned malfunctioning military droid. At least the bugsmasher has a pilot interested in staying alive and likely to dodge obstacles and other aircraft, unlike the droid.
 
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Which reminds me, I thought droids needed wavered airspace. Has that changed?
 
steingar said:
Which reminds me, I thought droids needed wavered airspace. Has that changed?
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I think in this case the drone was in a restricted area used by PAX for flight testing - right up until they lost the link and it just kept going out of that airspace into the SFRA.

Again - the drone was a problem, and it shouldn't have happened, and someone should get fired. No argument. It was reasonable for them not to panic and evacuate DC, though.
 
Reasonable not to panic and evacuate DC for just about any small aircraft. Not a good way to kill people, as example has shown again and again.
 
TMetzinger said:
Potomac Tracon and the NCRCC.
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How did Potomac Tracon and the NCRCC "know" the aircraft? Ifyou or I were flying VFR and PAX Approach handed us off to Potomac TRACON and we subsequently flew into the SFAR, the authorities would know us too--in the Biblical sense.
 
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