Dan Gets It Right - Graphic Crash

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Daleandee, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    We don't have any such concept as MMS. Can't display something that doesn't exist.

    Is it just a Boeing thing? Or does it exist in the Airbus world too?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  2. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Apparently I was wrong about Dan making it up. Instead, he conflates two different terms with very similar names.
     
  3. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ok. So youse guys do have a Minimum Maneuvering Speed. Is it a Vspeed? I was thinking with my bugsmasher brain.
     
  4. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Responding to my own post, from what I can tell, the A320 has a similar concept but does not use the word "maneuvering" in its name. Instead they call it VLS, for "Lowest Selectable" speed.

    http://www.a320dp.com/A320_DP/flight-instruments/sys-8.3.8.html
    http://www.a320dp.com/A320_DP/flight-controls/sys-7.3.19A.html

    There is also a lower "alpha protection" speed.

    Google says:
    No results found for site:a320dp.com "minimum maneuvering".​

    So Dan admonishing pilots for not knowing a specific Boeing-world term still looks quite silly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  5. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I do occasionally when I’m out just milling around not really going anywhere. I think it’s a valuable exercise.
     
  6. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Cleared for Takeoff

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    There is a concept as MMS. You guys just don't have it displayed.

    We have it in the 777 and also had it in the 757/767. I looked back at my MD-11 manuals, and it was also in there labeled Min Maneuvering Speed.
    MD11 MMS.jpg

    And as you pointed out in your other post, Airbus has the same concept, but they call it something different (of course they do, why wouldn't they).

    I haven't watched that video in a while and I'm not going to give him more clicks, but he shouldn't be admonishing anybody for that. But, I think it is a great way to think about maneuvering in a GA airplane. "What speed is the slowest I can fly and still be able to bank up to 40° (25°+15° overshoot) without stalling?" I think it's an important concept, but like I said before, no one should be admonishing anyone for not knowing something they weren't taught. Instructing, yes.

    And if I remember correctly, wasn't he giving someone a FR and instructing him on that very concept. I can't remember...
     
  7. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    When you are using similar names of different things to trick people, like Dan did, the name of the thing is the entire point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  8. wilkersk

    wilkersk Pattern Altitude

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    Are you kidding? At AWO, I'm at MCA anytime theres a Cub in the pattern.

    But, you don't have to go slow to stall. If you're not pulling G and regularly feeling that little nibble, you may as will drive.
     
  9. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    yabut RJs aren't real airliners...
    [​IMG]
    :D
     
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  10. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    That's funny. I was at MCA in the Cub yesterday waiting....on....a....Cessna....that....was....making....the....biggest....pattern....imaginable.
     
  11. wilkersk

    wilkersk Pattern Altitude

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    Cessna's and giant bomber size patterns are a thing. Haven't you heard? Something about giving the student a chance to keep up with the airplane. Its kinda like new math. You don't have to be exact, a guesstimate is good enough. And everyone gets a participation trophy.
     
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  12. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Cleared for Takeoff

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    I do.
     
  13. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    When I flew the CRJ our minimum maneuvering speed was ref+10.
     
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  14. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    When i got to the numbers on downwind and he was halfway to the next county, I almost keyed up and asked if he was landing or departing the pattern. I honestly couldn't tell.
     
  15. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Like Vref + 10? Let’s name it. Vmyc. Minimum Yank and Crank speed:D
     
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  16. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Back in the good old days before EFIS, they gave us a minimum speed (ref+ something)for each flap setting for level flight and maneuvering.

    Every EFIS system I’ve flown has some kind of AOA-based Vref marker on the airspeed tape that has become the de facto minimum speed.
     
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  17. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    We had a speed book for the crj. Flip to your weight and had ref speeds for flaps 0-full. Min maneuver speed was the speed book ref + 10
     
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  18. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    Yeah. Despite the glass it was still flown like an old school airplane
     
  19. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Amazing the things that done get changed because they have to be approved. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    I dunno… probably not a certification thing. More like pilots. I loved my speed cards. Screw those computers.
     
  21. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Your 121 certificate needs approval to change those documents…I doubt that what the pilots like has a lot of bearing on it. ;)
     
  22. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    I know what’s required. You need to fix your sense of humor.

    besides that what’s wrong with speed cards? The airplane did not display the data in any meaningful way that was in the speed card.

    . 121 certificates require FAA approval to change things but it’s not that hard. We changed stuff all the time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  23. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Deferred per 91.213(d).
     
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  24. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    You should get that fixed. That’s a grounding item for me.
     
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  25. iflyforfun

    iflyforfun Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah, that was a special kind of stupid. At least the balance of the craptastic video met the standard he set with that bit of stupidity.
     
  26. iflyforfun

    iflyforfun Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Other than the fact that the guy is a moron who speaks like an authority and yet is completely clueless? Other than that, I don't know why people who pride themselves as being responsible pilots would take offence at this clueless windbag speaking for pilots as if he has any idea of what he speaks.
     
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  27. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    I do. I fly a 150.