DA40 owners: flight over mountains?

[SnoFlyer]

How’s your climb rate and performance at 10-12k+? I was looking at these but I’m not sure if a turbo might be required for reasonable performance at mid altitudes during warm weather. I’ve looked at the POH but the graphs are… not clear about higher altitudes.

Feel comfortable at those altitudes with the performance? Feel like you need more oomph or is it no problem?

your anecdotes and feedback are appreciated!

 

[asicer]

The ones I flew were about on par with most other 180hp 4-seat planes, maybe a little bit better.

 

[steingar]

The fellow to whom I sold my Cessna 150 flew the thing to Oregon. I suspect the OP is over thinking this aspect of things.

 

[AA5Bman]

The fellow to whom I sold my Cessna 150 flew the thing to Oregon. I suspect the OP is over thinking this aspect of things.

I don’t relish this moment of agreeing with you, @steingar (haha just kidding, just kidding), but I agree.

OP - where are you flying, and more importantly, where are you taking off from? If you need to get to 12k feet mid cruise on a once a year trip, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you’re based at an airport at 7,000’, I think it’s worth a consideration.

 

[kaiser]

Assume you mean the DA40-180 with the Lyc IO-360?

Ceiling is 16.4, due to the 180 hp engine. The wing is really brilliant (glider wing - therefore low Vno/ne and rough in turbulence). I used to fly these at 11.5/12.5 often. It’s been summer since I’ve been in one but with 2 people and bags, I don’t ever remember struggling to this altitude. I fly a 200 hp Arrow now and the DA40 with less hp will out climb it.

Note DA40s some are equipped with a supercharger (from Tornado Alley?), which gives the engine SLP to ~8k?

 

[mondtster]

I don’t think I’ve ever taken either the 180 or the NG over 12,500. The climb performance on both was fine to that point, meaning it wasn’t memorably bad. I’d expect the Diamond to be better than many of its contemporaries at altitude.

My personal opinion is that this is being overanalyzed.

 

[murphey]

I don’t think I’ve ever taken either the 180 or the NG over 12,500. The climb performance on both was fine to that point, meaning it wasn’t memorably bad. I’d expect the Diamond to be better than many of its contemporaries at altitude.

My personal opinion is that this is being overanalyzed.

My 180 Cherokee.....living in Denver, 10-11-12-13-14K is just a normal day.

 

[Rgbeard]

Not DA-40-specific, but in general, IO-360-equipped aircraft generally get up to 12,000 and somewhat higher just fine, but don’t expect them to effortlessly depart the bonds of earth on a hot day at high altitude.

A max GW departure from Flagstaff (FLG) when it’s 75 degrees outside is an event that often involves last-minute prayer.

I’ve flown plenty of rented Arrows up there without significant issue. Don’t expect 500’/min after 12:ish.

So long as you’re not in a hurry to get to 13.5 or 14, you should be fine. I.E. don’t paint yourself into a box-canyon.

 

[Arrow76R]

I fly at 12.5 routinely over the mountains here in Colorado with my IO-360 Arrow. No biggy...Highest I have had to go was 15.5 on a smoky day to make sure I was above the "Fourteeners". Granted I am not anywhere close to gross weight but plan ahead as the above post said. My home-drome regularly has DA of 10 k in the summer. So watching the load becomes second nature here.

 

[Oldmanb777]

Mountain flying is more about the route and WHEN. As in weather and winds than about airplane performance. If you don't understand this, then you don't belong there. I used dark forest and winds to help a B727 out climb the ridge. Learn how to fly a sail plane if you want to fly in mountains.

 

[Mxfarm]

A max GW departure from Flagstaff (FLG) when it’s 75 degrees outside is an event that often involves last-minute prayer.

Amen!

Done it, 3 peeps (one which was an instructor) full fuel, +70 degrees, 160hp 172...stall horn chirping @ 200 fpm climb.

 

[BrianR]

I had the NG to 12.5 with 3 people several times, no issues, good climb performance.

 

[Salty]

Amen!

Done it, 3 peeps (one which was an instructor) full fuel, +70 degrees, 160hp 172...stall horn chirping @ 200 fpm climb.

What happened to Vx? Just a silly Faa thing they make you memorize for no reason?

 

[Mxfarm]

What happened to Vx? Just a silly Faa thing they make you memorize for no reason?

Can't say we cal'd or chk'd Vx for that day - density alt was considerably higher than field elevation. Basically, the instructor said this is what's going to happen, poor rate of climb, and the stall horn will be chirping @ us. Which is what happened.

What would you have recommended in that scenario?

 

[Salty]

Can't say we cal'd or chk'd Vx for that day - density alt was considerably higher than field elevation. Basically, the instructor said this is what's going to happen, poor rate of climb, and the stall horn will be chirping @ us. Which is what happened.

What would you have recommended in that scenario?

I would recommend flying at Vx if you had obstacles, Vy if you didn't. That's the whole reason those numbers exist.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe density altitude effects Vx Vy until you get really high. Gross weight would, but it's fairly minor.

I'd be surprised if Vx were anywhere near stall speed in your situation.

 

[Salty]

One more thing. If you think calculations need to be done to know what speed you should fly, shouldn't you do those calculations before flying? Not trying to be mean here, sounds like you were relying on an instructor. But instructors can sometimes do the wrong thing too.

 

[Mxfarm]

I would recommend flying at Vx if you had obstacles, Vy if you didn't. That's the whole reason those numbers exist.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe density altitude effects Vx Vy until you get really high. Gross weight would, but it's fairly minor.

I'd be surprised if Vx were anywhere near stall speed in your situation.

We would have been >9K’ DA, which seems really high for a 172 takeoff. Which was the reason for the flight there,

 

[Mxfarm]

One more thing. If you think calculations need to be done to know what speed you should fly, shouldn't you do those calculations before flying? Not trying to be mean here, sounds like you were relying on an instructor. But instructors can sometimes do the wrong thing too.

I’d agree, however, he was correct about what was going to happen. Not taking it as mean, but I’d vetted his guy out before we traveled half way across the country to take instruction from him. I guess I’ll be faulted for relying on an instructor.

 

[Salty]

It’s super easy to assume someone with more experience is doing everything they should. Not a good idea though.

 

[asicer]

I had the NG to 12.5 with 3 people several times, no issues, good climb performance.

The NG, being a turbo, isn't really a fair comparison to an XL/XLT.
(the OP didn't say it, but there were a couple of clues that it is the 180hp Lycoming IO-360 that is being considered)

 

[Johnny Costello]

I have flown a D40 to Tahoe several times . Usually around 11.5 over the mountains with a few time up to 13 without issue.

 

[N1120A]

If you don't already have a SureFly, you should get one. My Tiger's performance at altitude markedly increased

 

[Rokke214]

I’ve flown Da-40s into and out of Leadville airport (9934’) many times. No issues. The wing is excellent. It’s close to a powered glider. It’s not especially fast, but I’ve had no problems flying them around the Rocky Mountains.

 

[SnoFlyer]

Thanks for all the feedback.. Yes, I was asking about the IO-360, and I realize I'm over-analyzing everything. It was just the lack of data in the POH that made me wonder if it had been omitted for a reason.