Cylinder Overhaul

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DwayneSmithUSMC

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DwayneSmithUSMC
So it happened. I have 3 bad cylinders on my Cherokee 235 and my a&p suggested that I replace them with overhauled ones. Does anyone know a place on the Northeast where I can get good overhauled cylinders? How much will that cost me? Preferably I’d like a shop where I just swap out my old cylinders for overhauled ones. I’m located in Maryland, the closer the shop, the better. Please help.
 
I used Gibson's in El Reno OK....and so far am happy. Be prepaired for new pistons, rings, and pins. Those Nickel cylinders will be standard sized and your old ones are likely oversized from being reworked.

The guy in HGR is a bit pricey....but, I hear he does fine work too.
 

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Whatever you do DO NOT use Harrison in Indiana.
 
EdFred said:
Whatever you do DO NOT use Harrison in Indiana.
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I had good luck with my Harrison cylinders on my Yankee. I would go back to him if I had the need. Triad in Burlington however I would not. Their prop shop is good but their engine shop is sloppy.
 
Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with overhauled cylinders on something like a parallel valve o-540 like what is found in a Cherokee 235. My experience has been that the price delta between new and reworked isn't great enough to make it worth considering.

On something with more expensive cylinders it might be worth considering.
 
Grum.Man said:
I had good luck with my Harrison cylinders on my Yankee. I would go back to him if I had the need. Triad in Burlington however I would not. Their prop shop is good but their engine shop is sloppy.
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Oh hell no. I sent back cylinders to be rechromed. All they did was put chrome on top of chrome - which came right off of course. Then told me to **** off and called me a liar when I showed them pictures of the cylinders. Claimed we didn't install them correctly, even though the other cylinder we put at the same time, the exact same way, that wasn't from them was absolutely perfect. I will never deal with them again, and will tell everyone I know to avoid them.
 
Zepher Engines, They did 4 for me, great work, couldn't tell them from new. nearly 2000 hours ago, still running fine delivering mail on Vancouver Is. (180 horse 0-360)
 
In the past I have had three exchange cylinders from Penn Yan Aero to replace worn out cylinders I inherited. All different types as technologies advanced: steel, chrome, cermichrome. They all went the distance to MOH, never a problem. New cylinders may not be that much more expensive, but properly OH cylinders should easily make it to your MOH if you have a mid- or high-time engine.
 
EdFred said:
Oh hell no. I sent back cylinders to be rechromed. All they did was put chrome on top of chrome - which came right off of course. Then told me to **** off and called me a liar when I showed them pictures of the cylinders. Claimed we didn't install them correctly, even though the other cylinder we put at the same time, the exact same way, that wasn't from them was absolutely perfect. I will never deal with them again, and will tell everyone I know to avoid them.
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Harrison or Triad?

Personally, I would bite the bullet and buy new, but that's me.
 
PaulS said:
Harrison or Triad?

Personally, I would bite the bullet and buy new, but that's me.
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When you are 50% of TBO that's a good way to go.
 
DwayneSmithUSMC said:
So it happened. I have 3 bad cylinders on my Cherokee 235 and my a&p suggested that I replace them with overhauled ones. Does anyone know a place on the Northeast where I can get good overhauled cylinders? How much will that cost me? Preferably I’d like a shop where I just swap out my old cylinders for overhauled ones. I’m located in Maryland, the closer the shop, the better. Please help.
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Lots of answers here, predicated on not knowing how many hours on engine, what kind of cylinders you have, how many times they have been overhaul prior, and if yours are able to be overhauled.
Me.. I like a balanced engine, I don't like any engine going putt, bang, putt putt bang.
 
PaulS said:
Harrison or Triad?

Personally, I would bite the bullet and buy new, but that's me.
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Harrison. At the end of the ordeal, I wound up with 5 new cylinders. Trashed the ones Harrison ruined, and bought new.
 
Agree with others that it is better to go with new cylinders but I'll go one further and recommend Superior brand. Better than Lycoming, IMO. If your existing cylinders are first run (not yet OH'd), you can OH them for a few hundred less per cylinder. Penn Yan is well known/respected. Here in the southeast I use Don George, in FL.

Ideally, you want to replace the existing pistons with ones that are as close as possible to the weight of the ones being removed. Hopefully someone documented this information in your engine log.
 
EdFred said:
Oh hell no. I sent back cylinders to be rechromed. All they did was put chrome on top of chrome - which came right off of course. Then told me to **** off and called me a liar when I showed them pictures of the cylinders. Claimed we didn't install them correctly, even though the other cylinder we put at the same time, the exact same way, that wasn't from them was absolutely perfect. I will never deal with them again, and will tell everyone I know to avoid them.
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Mine were perfect, fast service and extremely cheap from Harrison. Having them overhaul my old O-235 jugs was 25% of the cost of new ones. Before having them chromed I sent them to Triad to be inspected and refurbished if able. They came back with the wrong pistons in them, new rings but no boring or honing was done, and there was a pretty bad taper in the cylinders. Used more oil than before I sent them in which prompted the full overhaul at Harrison.
 
A PA-28-235 may well have a narrow deck engine. This limits the availability of good first run overhauled exchange cylinders. If a cylinder needs to have cracks welded and the barrel plated the cost to overhaul installing new valve seats, valve guides, piston, rings, pin plugs, and rocker bushings will cost as much as a new CMI or SA cylinder assembly. There are cylinder shops that beat the cost by buying cylinders in bulk then "overhauling" by replacing only those parts that are actually worn out. You pretty much get what you pay for... Often less. I will recommend of course Zephyr, Penn Yan, Columbia, G &N and J & J & J. Charlie Melot X Zephyr owner
 
Seems like 30 years ago there were some really go cylinder shops around, not many good machinist left these days.
 
DwayneSmithUSMC said:
So it happened. I have 3 bad cylinders on my Cherokee 235 and my a&p suggested that I replace them with overhauled ones. Does anyone know a place on the Northeast where I can get good overhauled cylinders? How much will that cost me? Preferably I’d like a shop where I just swap out my old cylinders for overhauled ones. I’m located in Maryland, the closer the shop, the better. Please help.
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Hi Dwayne, just wondering how many hours you are past overhaul and how you’ve run your engine (55%? 65%? ROP? LOP?). I have a PA-28-236 recently overhauled.
 
Aviator305 said:
Hi Dwayne, just wondering how many hours you are past overhaul and how you’ve run your engine (55%? 65%? ROP? LOP?). I have a PA-28-236 recently overhauled.
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I am about 400 hrs SMOH. I found that the problem was that I was running my cylinders way too hot (over 400 degrees F). I have a CHT installed but I didn't know anything about proper CHT. Let's just say it was another expensive lesson.
 
DwayneSmithUSMC said:
I am about 400 hrs SMOH. I found that the problem was that I was running my cylinders way too hot (over 400 degrees F). I have a CHT installed but I didn't know anything about proper CHT. Let's just say it was another expensive lesson.
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Dwayne - find the instructions from the manufacturer. I know nothing about the 235 engine, but Lycoming has excellent documentation on running an engine, including CHT ranges, etc. Lycoming publishes it on their website. I would imagine Continental does also.

Just a warning, the Lycoming website doesn't play well with tablets, wants a full size screen.
 
Lycoming doesn't have a problem with CHT's at 400, according to the website.
Normal op limits, 400 and below.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Lycoming doesn't have a problem with CHT's at 400, according to the website.
Normal op limits, 400 and below.
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I certainly don't like 400 during break in, the new era cylinders run a lot cooler than that.
 
I have to say that I am surprised that you could even get your CHT to 400. I don’t know what I may be implying with that statement, but one of the things that I like about my O-540 in my PA28-236 is that my CHTs are always good regardless of what I’ve ever done to it. My hottest CHT is never above 332, and that is going peak EGT at the “65%” power setting by the table. The hottest that I have ever seen a CHT has been during a run up when it reached 380° (and I have changed my technique since that one time). Other owners can chime in if their experience is different, but I do not think I am alone based on threads at PiperForum.com.

FWIW, I would never want to see my CHT at 400° no matter what Lycoming says.
 
DwayneSmithUSMC said:
I am about 400 hrs SMOH. I found that the problem was that I was running my cylinders way too hot (over 400 degrees F). I have a CHT installed but I didn't know anything about proper CHT. Let's just say it was another expensive lesson.
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You were running 400F CHTs in cruise?
 
Aviator305 said:
My hottest CHT is never above 332, and that is going peak EGT at the “65%” power setting by the table. The hottest that I have ever seen a CHT has been during a run up when it reached 380
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Are you at sea level? Come to Reno, NV on a 95F day and just try keeping them under 400 on climb out. My Dakota hits 395-405 for a few minutes during every summer takeoff here, even climbing at 100kts, but is 330-360 in cruise depending on temperature and altitude.
 
DesertNomad said:
Are you at sea level? Come to Reno, NV on a 95F day and just try keeping them under 400 on climb out. My Dakota hits 395-405 for a few minutes during every summer takeoff here, even climbing at 100kts, but is 330-360 in cruise depending on temperature and altitude.
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Even at sea level, many high HP engines can be challenging to keep below 400F during climb out.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
@ what % power? Again, Lycoming says you can lean till the thing won't run anymore <=65%. I keep a laminated power chart handy just to keep inside the lines.
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I'm kind of surprised he can get CHTs up to 400F in cruise with any mixture setting. I don't think I could achieve 400F in cruise in the TIO-540s in the PA46s I fly.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'm kind of surprised he can get CHTs up to 400F in cruise with any mixture setting. I don't think I could achieve 400F in cruise in the TIO-540s in the PA46s I fly.
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Agreed it'd be tough, unless there were baffle seal problems, lubrication or other mechanical issues. Or he kept it down low with high MP.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'm kind of surprised he can get CHTs up to 400F in cruise with any mixture setting. I don't think I could achieve 400F in cruise in the TIO-540s in the PA46s I fly.
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At 23-24" MP our Mooney 201's will get cyls between 380-400F in cruise if you run them at 50 ROP. Over 100 ROP or anything lean of peak that number drops to reasonable levels.. 340-360F.

They are pretty tightly cowled aircraft. Open the cowl flaps and you can get the temps down, but I prefer to run the mixture on either side of that and keep them closed.
 
DwayneSmithUSMC said:
over-leaning
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Over lean (LOP) will result in less fuel burn and cooler temperatures. Not leaning enough (ROP) is where you can get into trouble. If you continue to have trouble controlling temps, check baffling and mag timing. If timing is too advanced, you'll always have trouble keeping temps down.
 
Ray Eaker said:
Over lean (LOP) will result in less fuel burn and cooler temperatures. Not leaning enough (ROP) is where you can get into trouble. If you continue to have trouble controlling temps, check baffling and mag timing. If timing is too advanced, you'll always have trouble keeping temps down.
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Running in the "Red Box"
 
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