Customs..Basicmed?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by bahama flier, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. bahama flier

    bahama flier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Each time I fly from the Bahamas to the Fl customs entry airport, I am required to present my Pilots license and my 3rd class medical permit.

    I know if I am 1st or second class medical holder, the medical must be up to date...However
    under Basicmed My medical is now good even if my medical permit is expired, as long as it has been issued in the last 10 years, I think.

    If anyone knows, do I have to have the Doctor complete the form before I can fly again, and when I return from the Bahamas, will Customs want the Doctors signed form to enter the US.

    Yes I called customs, the Officer was not aware of Basicmed, and did not think anyone ever checked the medical permit.., and yes I will call another customs entry and see if I can get an answer.

    I posted this because many of you have very good information and insight, and I value your input. Jim
     
  2. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Is Basic Med even valid internationally?

    Rich
     
  3. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The Bahamas accepts it. As far as I know, they’re the only international destination that does (so far).
     
  4. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    You can't fly under BasicMed, unless you have the form signed by a Doctor (presumably following an exam) and you complete the required online training. You have to do both.
     
  5. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    I think thats a given. If someone is flying under Basicmed and have a certificate they have satisfied hte requirements. You can't get to the page to print the certificate if you don't satisfy the paperwork portion.

    As for the OP's question - I would definitely make sure they're expecting BasicMed in Florida - since its one of the documents they can demand to see.

    I would call AOPA first thing in the morning and let them know. you should also make sure you have the badge number of the officer you spoke with - because no one is calling you back. I would call Fort Pierce or where-ever you plan on landing also tomorrow - and asked the specific question if they are aware that private pilots arriving from the Bahamas no longer require a third class or higher medical certificate.

    You want that answer and the badge number of the person you spoke to - this way that person can be tracked down if need be when you are being detained for not having a current medical. . . .
     
  6. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    See below

    It appears to me that the OP was under the impression that BasicMed automatically was applied on the expiration of his 3rd class medical. I was responding to that. The only time I have been to the Bahamas was on a cruise ship.
     
  7. bahama flier

    bahama flier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Thanks to all, called another Customs office, got the same I don't know, just bring all you have just to be sure..., OK, called AOPA, advised them their website did not say when you must have all the paperwork before you fly or after, I was advised they would revisit site to make it a little more clear. I got my test done, waiting for the Dr to do check up.
    Dr. wants to be sure he is doing it correctly, thanks for the input guys, I think I got it straight now.
     
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  8. ZeroPapaGolf

    ZeroPapaGolf Line Up and Wait

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    Interesting. Is this specific to returning from the Bahamas? I’ve cleared customs 14 times in the last 2 months and have never been asked for any pilot documents at all. That’s at FXE, PBI, and FLL.
     
  9. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

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    I've never been asked either (knock on wood). I don't see why customs would really care if I am legally able to fly the airplane I arrive in or not.
     
  10. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    What difference should that make to CBE?
     
  11. Brad Z

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    Refer the customs agent to FAA Notice 8900.420 if they ask for anything more than your drivers license while flying under BasicMed.
     
  12. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    What difference should a medical cert make to CBE? None that I can come up with. In fact, when it comes right down to it, what difference does a pilot certificate make to CBE? Their job is to determine whether a person is entitled to enter the country, not whether or not the aircraft was piloted legally. That would come under FAA's purview, not CBE's.

    Apparently, however, they've been given the authority to check anyway; so it must make some difference to them.

    Rich
     
  13. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    well, you will have your passport too . .
     
  14. Brad Z

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    I'm just talking about establishing medical eligibility. Gotta have your pilot certificate, DL, passport, eAPIS, User fee sticker, appropriate visa if necessary, etc. to get through customs and immigration.
     
  15. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I didn't say that. What I said is what difference that some FOREIGN state honors it or not is IMMATERIAL to CBE.
     
  16. MauleSkinner

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    Same reason they care how many fish you caught in Canada, probably.
     
  17. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Right. And I'm saying that it's all immaterial. CBE should care only about your passport. Your pilot certificate, medical certificate, and radiotelephone operator permit should be none of their business. None of those things fall under their purview. But apparently, what you think or I think doesn't matter very much.

    Rich
     
  18. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Oh goody, they want to see my radiotelephone permit. I'd show them my radiotelegraph operators permit. It's legal for airplanes but by and large one of the most useless certifications I have.
     
  19. MassPilot

    MassPilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    When flying under BasicMed, a driver's license is the one thing you need to have in your possession to establish medical eligibility. The exam form and course certificate can be left at home.
     
  20. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You need some photo ID (your passport is good enough) to fly even with a medical.
     
  21. MassPilot

    MassPilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    Of course, but you specifically need a driver's license if you're flying under BasicMed, even if you have a passport.
     
  22. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    I am not one for quoting regs, but here goes...
    It's 61.3 (l)(3) that gives them the right to see your certificates.

    Yes, I have been asked in the past.
     
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  23. RJM62

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    Technically speaking, that doesn't give an LEO the right to demand to see a cert. It merely requires the certificate holder to present it if so demanded. It assumes and presupposes that the LEO had a valid reason for doing so, but that assumption may or not actually be true. Where's the nexus between a Customs Agent's duties and what kind of medical a pilot holds?

    Rich
     
  24. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Huh??
     
  25. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The law doesn't grant any right to an LEO to request to see your certs. It merely requires that you do so if the request is made, regardless of whether or not the request is lawful. You can try to make a Fourth Amendment case later on if you like.

    If you're sitting in a restaurant and a police officer walks up to your table and wants to see your certificates because he noticed that you had an "I'd Rather be Flying" license plate frame on your car when you drove into the parking lot, you are required to present your certificates and photo ID. It doesn't matter that the request is unlawful because there is neither any nexus between the officer's duties and your FAA certificates, nor any reason to suspect that you are doing anything illegal. If an LEO requests to see your certificates, you are obligated to comply. The FAR doesn't require that the request be lawful.

    Neither is there any nexus between a Customs agent's duties and a pilot's aeromedical status. Customs' job is to determine whether it's lawful for a person to enter the country, not whether that person was medically fit to fly the airplane. But the agent's lack of purview nor of any legitimate right or reason to ask to see a medical certificate does not relieve a pilot of the obligation to present it for inspection if requested.

    The airman's obligation, however, extends only to any "airman certificate, medical certificate, authorization, or license required by this part;" so if the only document required to be in one's possession to fly under BasicMed is a driver's license, then that is all that has to be presented upon the LEO's request (in addition to the pilot certificate, of course, and the radiotelephone permit if requested). The pilot is not required to present a certificate that he or she is not required to possess.

    Rich
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
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  26. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Yeah, like asking to see your driver's license and proof of insurance after you arrived commercially. Pilots are forced to take too much crap.
     
  27. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    You're not required to be carrying your certs unless you are planning on exercising the privilege.

    Cop walking in and demanding to see your photo ID gets into the Terry Stop/4A/GFY ****ing contest you see on YouTube.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  28. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Get your quote attributions right. I did not say the statement you quoted me as saying.
     
  29. Palmpilot

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    Thanks for the link!
     
  30. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Sometimes the PoA client does some weird things; corrected, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

    Other than that, agree or disagree?
     
  31. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You're right. I was looking for an absurd example, but the one I used was too absurd.

    Rich
     
  32. bflynn

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    This. Very important phrase in here is "Neither of these documents needs to be in the pilot’s personal possession in any form when operating under BasicMed.", referring to your medical form and your course completion form. You can store them electronically as long as you can reproduce a legible copy of them.

    You are required to have your driver's license as proof of basic medical competency and limitations and your pilot's certificate. That's all.
     
  33. comanchepilot

    comanchepilot En-Route

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    We all need to understand that your obligation to present a DL/airman cert/medical etc to a law enforcement officer is germane to the question: Is a CBP officer a sworn law enforcement officer? In many cases they aren't. They certainly are not police officers - and their training is woefully insufficient to be peace officers. And they are ONLY allowed to arrest people committing immigration offenses: so, are they law enforcement within the realm of FAA rules?

    Now, CBP has its OWN rules which supersede the FAA rules. So you need to be careful there - just because you satisfy FAA rules to operate does not mean you satisfy CBP rules for re-admission into the country.

    CBP could have a rule that requires an FAA medical certificate to re-enter the country, and it would prevent you from operating an aircraft Basic Med to cross an international border. Even if that other nation allows you to operate basic med. Plus, CBP can actually have secret rules that they don't have to tell you about- or let you verify. So enjoy.