Critical Communications

[Henning]

Hey all, I realize that many of the people here read the Red Board as well, but from the posts I see there, I feel this needs to be addressed here for those people who don't. I'm just going to paste a post I just wrote over there. The entire thread is here for those who can access it. http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=213482#poststop

BTW to keep everything in context, The radio terms Mayday, Pan-pan (the call pronunciation is pahn-pahn repeated three times) and Security (pro. Say-cure-i-tay) are all agreed and standardized by international convention to which the US is a signator. Now, here's the post:

It's an emergency or nothing at all. Why would anyone use PAN?

Wow, I don't get this, didn't you get taught any of this? Don't you read up on this kind of stuff? It's in the AIM. Pahn-Pahn is a "Standby to render assistance" call. To give someone a heads up that a situation may develope which will require immediate resource allocation. The calls go out to put the chopper on standby, call an ambulance to meet you if you have a medical situation that isn't "imminent loss of life or property" but critcal none the less. If I have an engine out, but I'm maintaining altitude 15kts above blue line and the failure wasn't a fuel related failure. That is not a Mayday, there is no reason to declare an emergency but it's not "nothing at all". Pan-Pan Pan-Pan Pan-Pan is how you should start that call. If you are in a country where your language is the native language, you can probably dispose of that, however there are some countries that take radio protocol very seriously and improper protocol is taken as a personal insult to the person with whom you are speaking. This is really part of the crap that gives Americans a bad name around the world, we don't follow rules we agree to and it is viewed as arrogance. I spend half my life around the world having to defend Americans explaining that Americans aren't bad and evil, they're just either stupid or ignorant and don't realize that they are insulting you.

I find it amazing that in a thread about normal ATC coms, there is a great furor and uproar about doing it exactly right, and this is when the consequences from a miscomunication are relatively low, that such a laxadazical attitude when it comes to a call you have to make when, by the situation requiring the call, the stakes are elevated.

This is basic airmanship 101. You don't have to like it, you don't have to understand it, you just have to recognize what it is and what it means and act accordingly. I don't care if you use it or not, but when you hear me call Pahn-Pahn Pahn-Pahn Pahn-Pahn, I do expect you to know what that means and if you are in a position to help me out, need to pay attention and listen up to the traffic and give your position/track. Check your position against mine and figure out the intercept for current and progressive positions. Don't take any action, keep on your way. In five minutes when I escalate the call to Mayday Mayday Mayday You better turn your butt immediately in the direction you already had figured and get the nose down if you're high, give me a call with an ETA to position. I expect nothing less of you because I expect nothing less of me. In case you don't realize it, this is what you signed on for when you signed your Airman's Certificate. Me personnally, If I can stick the plane in near you without getting killed myself, I will. If you made the Pan Pan Pan call 5 minutes before you had to make the Mayday, it probably took 3-4 minutes off the time it took for me to get to you, much more if you called Pahn-Pahn Pahn-Pahn Pahn-Pahn, because I'm the kinda a guy who'll come over and form up on you till you're squared away so when you go in I'm there and the helo is already off the ground. Just doing my part for Darwin, you show me you're on the ball, I go further to help. (You prove yourself unworthy, I'll do what I'm required.) You and your passengers all lived because of the time saved by making that Pan-Pan call. You're situation may not always allow for a Pan Pan call. sometimes things just happen and it's all on you now, you have a Mayday right off the bat. There are situations though where things are starting to go wrong, you don't like it, but it's under control...This is the time you call Pan Pan. Give them a heads up that a situation may be developing, and while you're distracted trying to square away your issues, ATC calls you and queries your course or altitude change. This is because (s)he's watching out for you, realizes you may be head down under the panel trying to fix the plane and they clue you in to the fact that you need to pay attention to the airplane now. If you didn't call they wouldn't have known to tell you. If you square everything away and sort it all out you just give em a call back "Houston Center, 04Y cancel Pan Pan and thank you."

Sheesh, and to think I made my mate needle gun an entire engine room stack for saying "Security" instead of "Say-cure-i-tay".

So, have I sufficiently answered the question:

Why would anyone use PAN?

Are you squared away? I hope so...

 

[wesleyj]

Alas, you have hit the tip of what I consider a very large iceberg and everytime I say something about it I am severly chastised for my comments,

Pilots today are poorly trained, by instructors that are poorly trained and really dont care whether they instruct or not, they are just looking for a kerosene burner to fly, that CFI was turned out for the most part by a CFI mill that keeps turning out more and more substandard CFIs, that keep turning out more and more sustandard students.

Pilots today have no clue how to fly attitude, know nothing about pilotage, and god forbid that they should ever look outside the airplane, dont misunderstand, I am not against progress or new technology, in fact i am a technofreak that embraces new tech devices, but to use them as crutches instead of aids to better flying is the wrong way to go and quite frankly the people that i have flown with the past few years do exactly that.

I recently asked a 400 hr PPL&I, during a BFR, to do a short field landing in a 182, he used 2500 feet of runway, i asked him to do a soft field and he gave me a blank star, i showed him it could be landed and stoppped by the second runway light, his comment, "well I never land on anything less than 4 thousand feet". How sad is this, how stupid is this, how dangerous is this?

Given the cost of fuel, insurance, aircraft and training, coupled with the apparent lack of imagination and intestinal fortitude on the part of AOPA and the aircraft manufacturers, I feel that GA is on a rapid downhill slide to oblivion.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Those of us that were boating before we were flying probably have a clear understanding of this; the rest probably do not. I for one do not remember this being covered in any flying curriculum during my training(s) and just demonstrates once again that most of our tickets are licenses to learn on our own.

And I will say further that this is another unfortunate casualty with radio station operator licenses being done away with for the majority of American pilots. Not that I want to pay any add'l fees (!) but talking with other pilots it is very clear to me that many if not most do not even have a basic understanding of how a radio works, or how it should properly be used.

I would say that I fit into a category of pilot that John describes above - very good at some things yes, but completely clueless in others - and clueless that I was clueless. Then a minor accident woke me up. I don't claim to be the world's best pilot, or even a decently competent one compared to most, but at least now I read the rulebook and try to comply with it, and I am currently trying to relearn some things that were glossed over the first time. Not everything you learned in your private lessons was correct, and it is hardly inclusive of everything you need to know! Outside of snug little middle America Pan Pan is a very important radio phrase, and just because you can't imagine yourself ever using it doesn't mean you shouldn't know what it means.

BTW Henning, AIM aside, whattaya think about "securitay"

 

[Henning]

BTW Henning, AIM aside, whattaya think about "securitay"

It's a fine thing, I use it all the time on boats. Before I enter blind or restricted waters with a big boat I give a security call to let oncoming traffic know I'm coming so we can make passing arraingements. Say something happens on an uncontrolled airfield causing a hazard on the runway. That would be the point where someone on the ground would give a Securiy call for inbounds. "Say cure i atay Security Security, all station inbound Podunk, be advised cattle are on or near the runways, use extreme caution. Podunk"

If you're refering to the pronunciation, I'm fine with that as well, it has a very regular and recognizable cadance and sound to it. That's what it's about anyway, you hear that cadance and sound of Say cure i tay or Pahn Pahn and you automatically listen up. Works much nicer than a claxon or siren over the radio to get my attention

 

[woodstock]

BTW Henning, AIM aside, whattaya think about "securitay"

did the South Park guys read the AIM?

 

[poadeleted20]

Since "Securite" (the French word pronounced say-cure-ee-TAY, not "Security," an English word pronounced see-CURE-i-tee) is not in the Pilot/Controller Glossary, I recommend not using it in aviation radiotelephony in the USA. In fact, I don't even think it's in the ICAO Manual of Radiotelephony (Doc 9432). I've got a dozen years of international aviation operation experience everywhere from the Eastern Mediterranean to the South China Sea, and I've never hear it used, or even been taught what it means.

 

[ScottM]

Since "Securite" (the French word pronounced say-cure-ee-TAY, not "Security," an English word pronounced see-CURE-i-tee) is not in the Pilot/Controller Glossary, I recommend not using it in aviation radiotelephony in the USA. In fact, I don't even think it's in the ICAO Manual of Radiotelephony (Doc 9432). I've got a dozen years of international aviation operation experience everywhere from the Eastern Mediterranean to the South China Sea, and I've never hear it used, or even been taught what it means.

All the Air Force, MARS, Ham radio training I have had over the years I have never run into this phrase nor had training in it usuage until I joined the Coast Guard Aux. The USCG still teaches it.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Still used in offshore sailing and boating, fer sure...

 

[Henning]

Since "Securite" (the French word pronounced say-cure-ee-TAY, not "Security," an English word pronounced see-CURE-i-tee) is not in the Pilot/Controller Glossary, I recommend not using it in aviation radiotelephony in the USA. In fact, I don't even think it's in the ICAO Manual of Radiotelephony (Doc 9432). I've got a dozen years of international aviation operation experience everywhere from the Eastern Mediterranean to the South China Sea, and I've never hear it used, or even been taught what it means.

It would surprize me if it wasn't in the ICAO manual but I have no access to that reference. Most all the pilots I know know what a security call is, but most also have some maritime background, so that could be it. I don't see any particular reason not to use it in the example I gave. All it is is an alert, that's all. It's a cadanced repetitive pattern, and the word used itself is sufficient to the situation even in it's english transliteration. People don't have to know what it means particularly, and whether they do or don't, they will sit up and take notice "What the heck is...?" The message you are putting out still comes across after the info. But as you say, it isn't in the AIM and I'll take your word on that and the rest since I can't seem to be able to find the ICAO rule book online (they want to sell me one, didn't even bother looking at the price, bet it's over $100, ****es me off when regulatory bodies impossed on me make me pay for their rule book so I can play.) but maybe I'm not looking right. It would probably work just as well saying "Attention Podunck Traffic..." but I don't see where using it would cause a miscommunication problem.

 

[Richard]

Boy, I couldn't have said it better, Henning. I think Richard is right, pilots with maritme experience have a better grasp of this important subject. And like Wes mentioned, I too have gotten heat from others who don't understand the importance of this.

My question is what precipitated this post? I guess I should read the thread for the answer.

 

[SkyHog]

I mean absolutely no offense, Henning, but why would you answer a question like that? Would you rather the person who didn't know never ask, and never know?

For reference, the AIM says:
6-3-1 (c) The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with the signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times. The signal PAN-PAN should be used in the same manner for an urgency condition.

What the hell is an urgency condition, and how am I supposed to know whether or not I'm in distress or in urgency?

It goes on to say:
6-3-1 (d) Distress communications have absolute priority over all other communications, and the word MAYDAY commands radio silence on the frequency in use. Urgency communications have priority over all other communications except distress, and the word PAN-PAN warns other stations not to interfere with urgency transmissions.

Ok. So then MAYDAY takes preference over PAN PAN. I get that. But what is the difference between distress and urgency. Lets see:

Dictionary.com says distress is: noun, 3rd def:
The condition of being in need of immediate assistance: a motorist in distress.

It also says urgent is: noun, 1st def:
Compelling immediate action or attention; pressing

Still seems the same to me.

Please, answer people's questions without getting all uppity on them. I'd rather a million stupid questions than that one that someone should know, but is afraid to ask because they'll get a response like yours.

 

[wbarnhill]

All the Air Force, MARS, Ham radio training I have had over the years I have never run into this phrase

Ditto. Mayday and Pan I've heard and know the differences of, never seen or heard Security.

Nick, Pan is to alert that there is a situation but you're not in an immediate life threatening situation. According to wikipedia, Swissair Flight 111 used Pan-Pan when asking for landing requests (due to the electrical fire onboard). At the time, I would assume they felt that they needed to land immediately, but there was no imminent danger to life. Perhaps another instance would be a loss of oil pressure at altitude, but an airport is within visual and glide range. Your situation IS urgent, but there is no immediate danger to your life.

 

[jesse]

Never heard of "security"

not sure if i would ever really use "pan-pan" for that matter either. i either need help like RIGHT now or I don't. I'm not afraid to declare an emergency if need be and I'm also not going to try to use lower grades of attention getters to try to avoid paperwork..Which IME did not exist.

 

[etsisk]

Ah, so you can make the airport, and maybe being third in line to land is ok - but it's MAYBE going to hell in a handbasket, and you might need to be first by the time you get there. Or maybe not. That seems urgent to me. But not emergent.

 

[SkyHog]

I defer to Foreigner:

You know its urgent! Emergency, urgent, urgent, urgent, urgent!

 

[4CornerFlyer]

Look at the Pilot/Controller Glossary section of the AIM for definitions of distress and uregency situations:

DISTRESS- A condition of being threatened by serious and/or imminent danger and of requiring immediate assistance.

URGENCY- A condition of being concerned about safety and of requiring timely but not immediate assistance; a potential distress condition.

Note that the definition of urgency is very broad. Most of the discussions about whether to call something an emergency or not fail to acknowledge that almost anything that worries you as pilot is by the defintion above an emergency.

Jon

 

[Henning]

I mean absolutely no offense, Henning, but why would you answer a question like that? Would you rather the person who didn't know never ask, and never know?

For reference, the AIM says:
6-3-1 (c) The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with the signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times. The signal PAN-PAN should be used in the same manner for an urgency condition.

What the hell is an urgency condition, and how am I supposed to know whether or not I'm in distress or in urgency?

It goes on to say:
6-3-1 (d) Distress communications have absolute priority over all other communications, and the word MAYDAY commands radio silence on the frequency in use. Urgency communications have priority over all other communications except distress, and the word PAN-PAN warns other stations not to interfere with urgency transmissions.

Ok. So then MAYDAY takes preference over PAN PAN. I get that. But what is the difference between distress and urgency. Lets see:

Dictionary.com says distress is: noun, 3rd def:
The condition of being in need of immediate assistance: a motorist in distress.

It also says urgent is: noun, 1st def:
Compelling immediate action or attention; pressing

Still seems the same to me.

Please, answer people's questions without getting all uppity on them. I'd rather a million stupid questions than that one that someone should know, but is afraid to ask because they'll get a response like yours.

Well, the reason for the attitude, you'll notice upon reading the Red Board thread in it's entirity that the question of Pan Pan was answered quite reasonably and completely, and along comes someone who after having it explained reasonably again by me insisted and argued that an Urgent condition does not exist, that it is an emergency or nothing, and that is incorrect.

To answer your question of "How do I tell emergency from urgent?", well, that's a matter of your best judgement. The benchmark is if you don't get immediate assistance, you or someone will die or or there will be a loss of property. "Imminent threat to..." Urgent is when you're in the middle of the snowball. "We're not gonna die just now, but if it gets any worse we will."

The best example I can give of this progression I'll repeat; "Pan-Pan Pan-Pan Pan-Pan KC Center (or any station) 2704Y I have a passenger aboard complaining of pain in his chest and shortness of breath, like priority into XXX" Five minutes later "Mayday Mayday Mayday, KC center 04Y, I have a man down situation need nrst with medical nearby and an ambulance on the ground there please."

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Never heard of "security"

not sure if i would ever really use "pan-pan" for that matter either. i either need help like RIGHT now or I don't. I'm not afraid to declare an emergency if need be and I'm also not going to try to use lower grades of attention getters to try to avoid paperwork..Which IME did not exist.

I was spiralling down through thick forest fire smoke at night over a small valley airport way out in the 'toolies once, with the GPS taking a coffee break or something and low on fuel besides. Using watch and compass had gotten me to my decision point to spiral down out of 13.5. A radar fix would be real nice, right quick before dropping below its coverage. The FSS gal asked if I was declaring an emergency, and I said no, I just need that fix NOW. So she quickly switched me over to ATC and it turned out I got my fix just after the airport lights came into view and the GPS came back from its 15 minute coffee break, so the 'ol whiskey compass and watch method came through OK that time, with steady winds aloft.

The above would be a 'sec-ur-a-tay' situation. (although I've never heard that term until now)
If she had stalled around even a second, I would have declared the emergency for her right then, but waited that second to see, solely in order to avoid inquiries and paperwork for me. Afterwards, I thanked her for using her 'auth-or-o-tay' to get ATC on the job ASAP.

 

[SkyHog]

The above would be a 'sec-ur-a-tay' situation. (although I've never heard that term until now)
If she had stalled around even a second, I would have declared the emergency for her right then, but waited that second to see, solely in order to avoid inquiries and paperwork for me. Afterwards, I thanked her for using her 'auth-or-o-tay' to get ATC on the job ASAP.

Wouln't that be a pan pan situation? I thought Securite was used to declare something amiss for others, like sheep on the runway, or raining toads.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Wouln't that be a pan pan situation? I thought Securite was used to declare something amiss for others, like sheep on the runway, or raining toads.

Well shut my mouth.
You're probably right.
I was thinking at the time it initially might be a pan pan situation, but as a new pilot, resorted to using plain English instead.

 

[Henning]

I was spiralling down through thick forest fire smoke at night over a small valley airport way out in the 'toolies once, with the GPS taking a coffee break or something and low on fuel besides. Using watch and compass had gotten me to my decision point to spiral down out of 13.5. A radar fix would be real nice, right quick before dropping below its coverage. The FSS gal asked if I was declaring an emergency, and I said no, I just need that fix NOW. So she quickly switched me over to ATC and it turned out I got my fix just after the airport lights came into view and the GPS came back from its 15 minute coffee break, so the 'ol whiskey compass and watch method came through OK that time, with steady winds aloft.

The above would be a 'sec-ur-a-tay' situation. (although I've never heard that term until now)
If she had stalled around even a second, I would have declared the emergency for her right then, but waited that second to see, solely in order to avoid inquiries and paperwork for me. Afterwards, I thanked her for using her 'auth-or-o-tay' to get ATC on the job ASAP.

Not really, the call would have been a Pan-Pan situation. Security is to inform others of a potential hazard that you may create to them and things like that. Typically where you hear Securitay you're hearing a large vessel coming into a small channel or preparing to get underway, or authorities warning traffic of obstructions or temporary hazards.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Not really, the call would have been a Pan-Pan situation. Security is to inform others of a potential hazard that you may create to them and things like that. Typically where you hear Securitay you're hearing a large vessel coming into a small channel or preparing to get underway, or authorities warning traffic of obstructions or temporary hazards.

I think I got it now, thanks.
So I should probably call "sech-ur-a-tay" whenever I get an aircraft fired up!

 

[Henning]

I think I got it now, thanks.
So I should probably call "sech-ur-a-tay" whenever I get an aircraft fired up!

Nah, you only call for exceptional and unusual hazards, that sounds like a common one.

 

[etsisk]

The best example I can give of this progression I'll repeat; "Pan-Pan Pan-Pan Pan-Pan KC Center (or any station) 2704Y I have a passenger aboard complaining of pain in his chest and shortness of breath, like priority into XXX" Five minutes later "Mayday Mayday Mayday, KC center 04Y, I have a man down situation need nrst with medical nearby and an ambulance on the ground there please."

Um, after working three years in ERs as an EMT type, I've gotta tell you that situation #1 was an emergency. #2 was a crisis, I reckon. But if you've got someone with chest pain and s.o.b. (that isn't a 12 year old), you've got yourself an emergency.

 

[poadeleted20]

The above would be a 'sec-ur-a-tay' situation.

Since that term is not defined in any official aviation communication glossary, it's hard to say what would be "a 'sec-ur-a-tay' situation," since one would have no idea what ATC or anyone else would take that term to mean.

 

[poadeleted20]

Typically where you hear Securitay you're hearing a large vessel coming into a small channel or preparing to get underway, or authorities warning traffic of obstructions or temporary hazards.

Next time I'm driving a ship, I'll consider that, although I was not taught that term when qualifying as a US Navy Officer of the Deck (OOD). However, since it is not an aviation term, its use in the cockpit would be inappropriate.

 

[Chache]

Um, after working three years in ERs as an EMT type, I've gotta tell you that situation #1 was an emergency. #2 was a crisis, I reckon. But if you've got someone with chest pain and s.o.b. (that isn't a 12 year old), you've got yourself an emergency.

Having been the old "SOB" ( 5 X 12 yrs +), and an ex-EMT Instructor,
(for 7 years, and having more than 1000 emergency responses[Volunteer ambulance])
with my own chest pain a while back,
[an Anterior MI caused by plaque blockage of the left anterior descending (LAD) coronary artery,]
requiring a triple bypass....

I must say, that the chest pain, IS an Emergency! !
Average layman won't know for sure, if it's the heart, or not, without a diagnostic EKG/ blood workup.
(Although ER / ICU / CCU) types can tell on most occasions....

Ya wanna gamble with someone's life??

It may be caused by anxiety, ...and gas pains are mostly abdominal, and /or sinus/aural, and will usually have onset during ascent's or descent's.

Yes, It could be a pulled chest muscle, But it wouldn't come on suddenly, while sitting in an airplane seat.
(unless the recipient was doing some strenous aerobic exercises at the time... )





Chache
.

 

[Ghery]

Not really, the call would have been a Pan-Pan situation. Security is to inform others of a potential hazard that you may create to them and things like that. Typically where you hear Securitay you're hearing a large vessel coming into a small channel or preparing to get underway, or authorities warning traffic of obstructions or temporary hazards.

And I've been known to threaten to key up on channel 16 when ready to back out of my slip, "Securitay, securitay, securitay. S/V Cougar Pride is about to set sail. All sailing vessels check your auxiliary engines as the wind should die in about 30 minutes." If I were to rename that boat, it would be "Wind Killer".

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Nah, you only call for exceptional and unusual hazards, that sounds like a common one.

Dayam! Of course.
(hit forehead with hand, ow! too hard, too hard. ow.)
So hard... ...to ...talk ...right...

 

[Richard]

Ghery....wind killer....hilarious (snort).....I know what you mean.

 

[river_rat]

From the UK CAA Radiotelephony Manual

1.6 Military Safety Broadcast - Securité
Military ground stations may commence a broadcast message with ‘SECURITÉ
SECURITÉ SECURITÉ’ (SEC-URI-TAY spoken three times) to inform all traffic that the
message contains information affecting safety, but not an emergency situation.
Aircraft acknowledgement is not required, however aircraft may contact the ground
station to obtain further details.

Example:
SECURITÉ SECURITÉ SECURITÉ,
All traffic, Westbury Approach, D527
now active for live firing, surface to
2500 feet.

 

[poadeleted20]

From the UK CAA Radiotelephony Manual

1.6 Military Safety Broadcast - Securité

Well, there you have it -- it's used in the UK for the military folks on the ground to let aircraft know about safety concerns -- not exactly what Henning's posts suggested. However, don't expect the US military to use it here in the USA -- it is not in their book.

 

[Henning]

Next time I'm driving a ship, I'll consider that, although I was not taught that term when qualifying as a US Navy Officer of the Deck (OOD). However, since it is not an aviation term, its use in the cockpit would be inappropriate.

Not learning it as a deck officer really surprises me. When I lived in San Diego, every time a Navy ship would enter the harbour or leave the dock, there was a security call made, although that might have been the civilian pilot making the call.

 

[SkyHog]

What about:

"Securite Securite Securite, Jumpers Aweigh!"

 

[TangoWhiskey]

OK, this whole thread got me to thinking on the way home... I hear airliners out of DFW occasionally call "American 922 is declaring an emergency." They get priority, and come back to land.

When is it preferrable to state that "I'm declaring an emergency" versus calling Mayday? Is the first the preferrable course of action if you're already in contact with a controller? Or does "I'm declaring an emergency" mean something entirely different than "Mayday" as far as how the controller reacts by his rule book?

 

[TMetzinger]

In the CG, at my air station, "Security" was used for maritime ops and communications, never when working aircraft emergencies. The only time I ever uttered the words when I was in an airplane was when I was working a hoist over a bunch of small boats - since the H-3 generates about 80+ MPH downdrafts, it was proper for me to warn the boats in the vicinity of our rescue op about the hazard we were about to introduce, over the marine radio, not the aviation one.

"See-Lonce" (silence) was used the same way, on the marine bands, never on the aviation bands.

By the way, I'm not sure that aviators are expected to respond to aircraft mayday calls the way a boat does (make for the aircraft in distress, etc), unless they are asked to assist by ATC.

 

[poadeleted20]

When is it preferrable to state that "I'm declaring an emergency" versus calling Mayday? Is the first the preferrable course of action if you're already in contact with a controller? Or does "I'm declaring an emergency" mean something entirely different than "Mayday" as far as how the controller reacts by his rule book?

Declaring an emergency just says you're in a situation which will require priority over other operations, e.g., losing one engine in a twin but still being able to maintain altitude. "MAYDAY" is generally accepted to mean you're in imminent danger to life and limb, e.g., you're on fire. Thus, you can declare an emergency in situations which don't merit a MAYDAY call, but any situation meriting a MAYDAY call is an emergency.

 

[wbarnhill]

Declaring an emergency just says you're in a situation which will require priority over other operations, e.g., losing one engine in a twin but still being able to maintain altitude. "MAYDAY" is generally accepted to mean you're in imminent danger to life and limb, e.g., you're on fire. Thus, you can declare an emergency in situations which don't merit a MAYDAY call, but any situation meriting a MAYDAY call is an emergency.

I can understand this when you're on a controlled frequency, as someone is always listening, but what if you're out in the open, maybe on a unicomm or CTAF for a local airport? Would you still simply say declaring an emergency, or should you use Mayday to try to get someone's attention (or on subsequent calls in case someone comes on frequency)?

 

[poadeleted20]

I can understand this when you're on a controlled frequency, as someone is always listening, but what if you're out in the open, maybe on a unicomm or CTAF for a local airport? Would you still simply say declaring an emergency, or should you use Mayday to try to get someone's attention (or on subsequent calls in case someone comes on frequency)?

I would not use "MAYDAY" unless the situation were critical. However, a situation that wasn't critical can become critical if things don't go your way, and at that point, I would use "MAYDAY" if it was the only way to get some knucklehead to yield right of way to me. OTOH, you can call "MAYDAY" all you want, but an airplane with no radio can't hear you, so be cautious in making an emergency approach to a nontowered airport.

 

[gismo]

I would not use "MAYDAY" unless the situation were critical. However, a situation that wasn't critical can become critical if things don't go your way, and at that point, I would use "MAYDAY" if it was the only way to get some knucklehead to yield right of way to me. OTOH, you can call "MAYDAY" all you want, but an airplane with no radio can't hear you, so be cautious in making an emergency approach to a nontowered airport.

I've always thought the two were somewhat interchangeable except that one must consider the audience. If you are broadcasting in the blind a "Mayday" call seems appropriate for anything that would precipitate any emergency transmission. OTOH if your emergency isn't at the panic level yet and you are already in communication with ATC EG on tower or approach frequency of the airport you are departing from or arriving to, with center on an IFR flight or for flight following etc. then "N4321 is declaring an emergency" followed by any requests you have for assistance would be my choice. For example, say I'm "with" center at 9000 MSL over Iowa and my left engine pushes a cylinder head through the cowling. I'd like to think I'd "declare an emergency" in my best calm Chuck Yeager voice followed with "lost an engine, need a vector to the nearest suitable airport with at least MVFR and a 5000+ ft runway, preferrably with an ILS". But if the first thing I noticed was a bunch of flames shooting out of that same cowling, I'm pretty sure the first words transmitted would be three Maydays with a slightly higher pitched voice.

But if the first situation happened while I was flying VFR into an uncontrolled field, I can't see much usefulness in "declaring an emergency" over the CTAF, I'd just say something like "nowhereville traffic, Baron 21A is 12 NE making an emergency landing on 25, and then repeat something similar if another airplane in the vicinity became a conflict.

In any case I strongly believe that "declaring an emergency" on the air to anyone is not required to invoke your 91.3 emergency authority.