steingar
Taxi to Parking
Slips in a Cherokee are like burnouts in a '66 Rambler.
The voice of ignorance speaks. You should check out my thread about loosing 7K feet on downwind. Cherokees slip just fine, thank you.
Slips in a Cherokee are like burnouts in a '66 Rambler.
The voice of ignorance speaks. You should check out my thread about loosing 7K feet on downwind. Cherokees slip just fine, thank you.
I probably have more PA time than you do, Professor.
If you think a Cherokee slips "just fine," you haven't slipped an airplane with real rudder authority.
Michael owns a Cherokee, thus is only person capable of issuing advice, observations, or comments about all Piper products. Therefore ignore all pilots who have flown half a dozen Piper Cherokees. They can't know what they are talking about.
I love you guys! I really do!![]()
(let's keep that on the QT, shall we?)
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Slips in a Cherokee are like burnouts in a '66 Rambler.
The voice of ignorance speaks. You should check out my thread about loosing 7K feet on downwind. Cherokees slip just fine, thank you.
Well, I got to say that I have more time in PA28s than 172s and I would have to agree with Michael. They slip just fine.Michael owns a Cherokee, thus is only person capable of issuing advice, observations, or comments about all Piper products. Therefore ignore all pilots who have flown half a dozen Piper Cherokees. They can't know what they are talking about.
From what I've seen flying a J3 from the back and what I've heard about the Pitts, I'd say the slipping approaches shown were actually very safe...much easier to see the landing spot.
To be fair, the first car I had regular access to was my grandfather's '63 Rambler Ambassador. It had a factory 327 V-8 in it. It would certainly burn out. Or so I heard. Yeah, that's it.
John
Well, I got to say that I have more time in PA28s than 172s and I would have to agree with Michael. They slip just fine.
Michael owns a Cherokee, thus is only person capable of issuing advice, observations, or comments about all Piper products. Therefore ignore all pilots who have flown half a dozen Piper Cherokees. They can't know what they are talking about.
Anyone who says a Cherokee doesn't slip either hasn't flown one or doesn't really know what a slip is. Or is factually incorrect for some other reason. Nonetheless, they are factually incorrect. I repeat, Cherokee's slip just fine. Unless the airplane in question is badly out of trim.
I have no doubt that a tail dragger, with it's larger rudder surface, will slip dramatically. On the other hand, reference my thread about loosing 7K feet on downwind. Just how much more slip does one really need?
Did I say a "Cherokee doesn't slip"?
Read more carefully next times before you get your hackles all a-twitter.
I compared a Cherokee's slipping performance to Rambler's burn out (an automobile also known for docile, less-than-enthusiastic performance).
Cherokees are docile, well-mannered, and not particularly outstanding in any single measure of performance -- including slips.
That's fine -- Cessna 172s are docile and they sold a whole lotta those.
And I said, how much more slip do you need? I brought my airplane down thousands of feet, under control, in the space of a downwind leg of the landing pattern. That's docile? Just how much more is it supposed to do?
Yes, Cherokees do relatively mild slips even with full rudder and aileron inputs. In what horizontal distance did you lose 7,000 ft? What was the wind doing? What was your vertical descent rate? There are airplanes that will slip what feels like 4 times more effectively than a Cherokeee. You don't NEED it, but it sure opens up your options for stuffing the plane into a tight spot from otherwise impossible angles in an emergency. But the number one reason to want it is just for plain old fun.![]()
And I said, how much more slip do you need? I brought my airplane down thousands of feet, under control, in the space of a downwind leg of the landing pattern. That's docile? Just how much more is it supposed to do?
Thread here. If memory serves I came in at 8.5K feet and dropped down to 500 in the space of a 5K foot runway. From the thread I assume winds were variable and gusty.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could stuff a Cherokee or Skyhawk into the exact same space. The latter don't have huge rudder surfaces, but the taildraggers by and large lack landing flaps.
I used my anecdote to prove that a Cherokee (well, my Cherokee) can establish a tremendous descent rate using a slip (and flaps, yes). Honestly, how much more do you need?
I never said my cherokee had better rudder effectiveness than an old taildragger. I wouldn't, such a thing is patently false. By the way, that was thousands of feet in the space of 5K feet, not two miles. And no, it would not have done so simply with landing flaps, sorry.
What I said was that Cherokees slip just fine. A slip is used on most aircraft to increase descent rate. I used my anecdote to prove that a Cherokee (well, my Cherokee) can establish a tremendous descent rate using a slip (and flaps, yes). Honestly, how much more do you need?
I doubt the taildraggers will come down that much faster. Yes they can fly sideways, but those wings have plenty of glide in them, unlike my aircraft, which has the glide of a Buick.
Until you admit the egregious error and the physical impossibility of what you described in your "anecdote" (58 degree descent angle), you have zero credibility with anything you state as far as I'm concerned. The only way a Cherokee could come down even close to that angle without shredding airplane parts would be under a BRS chute. Again, if you had 55-60 mph of wind on your nose, OK. But I doubt it.
Don't much like being called a liar.
Not to me.All looked like normal landings to me
Am I the only one reading the old thread and this one thinking that descending "several thousand feet on downwind, which I lost without doing any detours, S turns, or circles," probably isn't the brightest way to arrive into the downwind in a low wing aircraft?
Seems like I've seen photos over the years of the low wing aircraft "mating" with a high-wing from above, and more than one of those photos. (Pretty sure it was some of those evil CFIs that showed me such crazy photos too.)
I don't really want to attempt to haul your aircraft around the base and final turns on my back.
I'd really prefer you descend somewhere other than on the downwind if at all possible, sir.
No one mentioned it in the original thread so I'll be the bad guy and toss it into this one.
Who cares if it'll slip like a Baby Grand Piano pushed out of the back of a C-130? Do it somewhere away from the pattern and enter normally at a reasonable pattern altitude like everybody else.![]()
We're all too busy watching out for the RV'ers doing their overhead breaks.
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You can do that without slipping as well, Cherokee sinks like a rock quite comfortably at 1.01 Vso while fully coordinated when you close the throttle. Fly minimum controllable airspeed, just don't add power, so simple every PP has practiced their part of it at least for a while. This time don't add power to maintain altitude, watch your Vsi...weeeee.Thread here. If memory serves I came in at 8.5K feet and dropped down to 500 in the space of a 5K foot runway. From the thread I assume winds were variable and gusty.
You can do that without slipping as well, Cherokee sinks like a rock quite comfortably at 1.01 Vso while fully coordinated when you close the throttle. Fly minimum controllable airspeed, just don't add power, so simple every PP has practiced their part of it at least for a while. This time don't add power to maintain altitude, watch your Vsi...weeeee.
Am I the only one reading the old thread and this one thinking that descending "several thousand feet on downwind, which I lost without doing any detours, S turns, or circles," probably isn't the brightest way to arrive into the downwind in a low wing aircraft?
Oh, great.I'd be less likely to do this in uncontrolled airspace for the reasons you specify, though if the need presented itself, and I thought it could be accomplished safely, I would.
In this case I was in the controlled airspace at my home airport. The tower had been notified of
Oh, great.
Now, instead of just having degenerated into pattern technique and how well a Cherokee slips, we can now pick nits over the definitions of controlled (A,B,C,D,E) vs. uncontrolled (G) airspace which doesn't happen at most non-towered airfields.
How about we all agree that we know what Prof. Steingar really meant even if the wording was not 100% precise and not go there?
I'm so glad my first post here was to talk about practicing slips in a Cherokee.![]()