Crazy Club Rates?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by lancie00, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    My dad and I currently own an Arrow that we fly regularly. Occasionally, I'd like to have access to a larger plane (6 person) for trips but I'm having trouble finding one to rent locally. (KFOD) I have a friend in a club that has a Cherokee 6 that would work perfect for me. Just out of curiosity, I asked him what the club rates were. He told me that there was a buy in but he wasn't sure how much it was. Then he told me that their monthly dues were $575/month and the Six had an hourly dry rate of $170/hour.

    I said thanks but no. I thought this was extremely high but since I've never been in a club before, is this about right? For that kind of money I could upgrade our Arrow to something really nice and be sole owner.
     
  2. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    I'd say it is very high, especially the monthly dues. What other aircraft do they have?
     
  3. CharlieD3

    CharlieD3 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well, not near you.. but the club I'm joining is $345 buy in and $45 a month. No 6 passenger planes.. but their 182 is only $110 an hour WET...
     
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  4. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    At that price, I’d like to know what else I could fly and if that is all in. That dry rate is ridiculous. Are they trying to make enough to buy a New M350?
     
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  5. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yeah, that seems high. How high depends upon how many people are in the club. I've been in "non-equity partnerships" (i.e. leasing) for better rates than that. One was a SR22 for $500/month and $60/hr dry. The other a Baron 58 for $500/month and $150/hr dry. Both were hangared. There were only 3 or 4 pilots flying each of those, so we had lots of access.
     
  6. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I think you'd need to see what aircraft/hangar was included in that price. Maybe he misstated what the dues/rates were.
     
  7. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    If that was a wet rate it would be about right. But the fixed dues are outrageous.
     
  8. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    How many planes in the club?
     
  9. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

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    :yeahthat:
     
  10. Somedudeintn

    Somedudeintn Cleared for Takeoff

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    What’s the person per plane ratio? I’m the only way I could see a monthly rate like that is if all the planes are hangared and the person to plane ratio is 2:1 or less.
     
  11. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Line Up and Wait

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    That's crazy.

    Six-place airplanes are difficult to find in the rental fleets, and it's one of the main reasons we bought ours.

    That said, our FBO has a Cherokee Six, reasonably priced. Too bad you're not in San Diego.
     
  12. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    First let me agree with your assessment of the dues. I suspect the club has few members and they went crazy upgrading a panel and the members agreed to the outrageous dues to pay for it.
     
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  13. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    That’s beyond absurd. How a club like that retains members is beyond me.

    Where’s all of that money going each month?
     
  14. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Cleared for Takeoff

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    That monthly dues amount is missing a decimal.
     
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  15. Fallsrider

    Fallsrider Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    Compared to a club near me, that's crazy. They have a Cherokee 6. Monthly dues (no buy in) are $125/mo., but any month you fly club planes 4 hrs. or more, you get a $75 discount the next month. So, fly 4 hrs or more each month and your monthly dues are $50.

    The 6 goes for $125/hr. dry tach time.
     
  16. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Maybe he just doesn't want you in the club. :D
     
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  17. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    That’s crazy. And you are in Iowa!!
     
  18. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

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    I’ve seen “clubs” with equally ludicrous rates. Turned out they were not member owned equity clubs, but straight up “for profit” ventures that called themselves a “club”.
     
  19. CJ Rader

    CJ Rader Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The club in my area wants a $3000 one-time registration fee (includes Cirrus Transition Material). Then $300 a month. The least expensive Cirrus SR22 is $225 per hour. The other option is the Backcountry option with a $1500 registration fee and a $150 a month rate. You have access to a Husky and a 182. The Husky is $110 an hour. Overall, bit rich for my blood. I genuinely think I might be better served buying an old but serviceable 172 and finding a local strip with reasonable hangar fees. I'm in Arkansas, where apparently the club airstrips are paved with gold. lol
     
  20. k9medic

    k9medic Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's crazy. My partner and I operate our Cherokee 6 for $50/ hour dry. Fuel averages out at about 13 gallons per hour on our own dime.

    We split the hangar rent of $260/ month at $135 per person too.
     
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  21. JD318

    JD318 Pre-Flight

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    Who gets the extra $10?
     
  22. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    I’ve seen ones that are short of money due to mismanagement in the past. They need new blood. The old timers ‘grandfather’ themselves in and get the new members to subsidize them
     
  23. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    Ok I got a little more info. The Cherokee six is the only plane they have but they want to buy another plane, possibly a twin. The six at least has a good 430w and adsb.

    Edit - I forgot to say that there is only 3 or 4 younger members (40-50ish) and they just built a new hangar. I think I'll pass.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  24. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Ok...what do they do with all that money every month.
     
  25. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Say there's 10 members in the club. What the heck are they spending $69,000 a year on?

    <insert Judge Smails here>
     
  26. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Sounds to me like there's still a loan on the plane they're paying down.
     
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  27. k9medic

    k9medic Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The LLC’s bank account. We use it for things like trash bags or wash supplies.
     
  28. Flying_Nun

    Flying_Nun Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I joined a club back in 2011-ish. They had four aircraft (PA28-161, DA40, C182, PA32R) and had just built a hangar for them all to the tune of about $400K. There were 50 or so members. Then the economy tanked, dues started rising, people stopped flying, the PA32R suffered a gear up landing, the club went bankrupt, and the bank repo'd everything. Thankfully I got out before it all went south due to other circumstances.

    The club I'm in now formed from the ashes of the above. Some members got together and bought back the PA28. We have 13 equity members with a buy-in of $3,300, monthly dues of $108, and $45/hr tach dry. And, no plans to expand and get over extended again.
     
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  29. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    After totally all my expenses up for the year I determined that my Mooney costs me $150/hour to fly, and that's not counting the purchase price in any way. That's hangar, maintenance, gas, insurance, everything. To be honest that rate doesn't sound all that bad if there's no buy in. If the buy in comes close to an integral fraction of the aircraft then it is steep.

    I had once swore not to ever do this, but I had a passenger on the Oshkosh trip and had to know what to charge him.
     
  30. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yeah, except that $575/month should be covering mx, hangar, and insurance - with assumably somewhere around 10 people paying it. I don't think the $170 an hour is bad by itself, but not coupled with another $575/month. At 75 hours a year that's adding almost another $100/hr to your operating cost.
     
  31. Sociald

    Sociald Filing Flight Plan

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    My Club has a $120/buy-in, $120/month and our Cherokee 6 (300HP) rents for a wet rate of $152/hr.
     
  32. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    That was my thinking as well. Either someone is collecting a salary on this club operation or it has one lousy excuse for a treasurer.
     
  33. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Lol, I'm not even sure what the point of having a buy-in of $120 would be. I suppose for legal reasons to be a non-profit flying club, a buy-in is necessary, but if you're going to have a buy-in that low, may as well make it $1.
     
  34. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

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    Do any of your clubs allow renting to people not in the club? I don't really want to pay dues all year for a plane I would only use a couple of times.
     
  35. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    You could almost own for that amount of money...
     
  36. CJ Rader

    CJ Rader Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I agree. I look at these monthly rates and would rather throw the $$ at a Piper Cub and a parking spot in a hangar. Sure, it's primitive, but it'd be MINE.
     
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  37. Pugs

    Pugs Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No. That would mean it wasn't a club. :D
     
  38. Sociald

    Sociald Filing Flight Plan

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    Whoops, forgot a 0...it's a $1,200 buy-in. But you do get 90% of it back when you leave, so I guess it's technically a $120 buy-in lol.
     
  39. Mike Smith

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  40. Sundancer

    Sundancer En-Route

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    Not up on the FAA rules, but my instinct is no; my club (non-profit) does not rent outside the membership. Otherwise, it'd be a business, I think. . .